Western Identification Sought

[Andy Kirkham]

Here's a few more

APR 74 35. A trio of Class 52s at Penzance, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

I guess the middle one with the square vent could be only one of a few. I think the one on the right really does lack headboard clips - it is not a trick of the scanner.

 

APR 74 15. A class 52 on a Down train near Penponds between Camborne and Gwinear Rd by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

APR 74 30. A Class 52 with an Up train about to enter Polperro Tunnel, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

Although this is distant, there are  several clues: It seems to have a square vent and seemingly lacks headboard clips (although one perhaps can't be certain) and looks as if it is recently painted in April 1974.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Andy Kirkham

[stovepipe]

Last one - square vent, no headboard clips and recent repaint, I think makes it D1028 Western Hussar. If it does have headboard clips then D1012 Western Firebrand is the most likely based on repaint date. Other photos I've found of D1028 in April 1974 show it to be quite grimy - https://www.flickr.com/photos/126917003@N05/20926200430/

[Andy Kirkham]

Thanks Stovepipe

Here is one I took a couple of days later, which definitely shows 1028

MAY 74 26. 1028 Western Hussar speeds through Totnes with the 08:00 Bristol-Penzance, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

If it is the same loco it has visibly lost some of its sheen - is this consistent with a couple of days in traffic?

A point of similarity is that in the Cornish photo, there is a white blob low down on the left cabside, while in the Totnes picture the small hatch in a similar position also appears to be white. What is that hatch, by the way?

[Steve T]

Here's a few more

APR 74 35. A trio of Class 52s at Penzance, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

I guess the middle one with the square vent could be only one of a few. I think the one on the right really does lack headboard clips - it is not a trick of the scanner.

 

APR 74 15. A class 52 on a Down train near Penponds between Camborne and Gwinear Rd by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

APR 74 30. A Class 52 with an Up train about to enter Polperro Tunnel, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

Although this is distant, there are  several clues: It seems to have a square vent and seemingly lacks headboard clips (although one perhaps can't be certain) and looks as if it is recently painted in April 1974.

I'd say the middle loco in the top phot is either D1056 or D1071 as the warning flashes appear to indicate a Crewe-built Western. On the basis the flashes on the engine nearest the sea denote a Swindon-built Thousand, it is one of D1005, D1025, D1026, D1027 or D1029.

 

Great photo's.

[Andy Kirkham]

A Class 52 rolls into Didcot with an express from South Wales, December 31 1973 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

I'm almost convinced that I can make out the name "Vanguard" on the plate. Can anyone confirm if this is plausible? The date is 31/12/73.

 

FEB 74 12, A Class 52 with a South Wales express on the split level approach to Patchway tunnel, February 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

FEB 74 11. A Class 52 with a South Wales express on the split level approach to Patchway tunnel, February 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

Here we have both an approaching and a going-away shot of the same train, and it appears to show headboard clips at one end but not at the other. The date is uncertain probably 1973 but might be 1974.

 

Many thanks for your efforts!

[Downendian]

Hi Andy

Lovely shots at Patchway - one of my spotting locations so fond memories.

Edit - on reflection I can't tell which end of the loco is which.

If the clips are missing from the B end it could be D1005, D1046, D1049 or D1063

If minus clips at A end It can only be D1040. Other candidate could be D1065 but you photo doesn't show the key identifier for Consort, the M shaped horn cowl at one end.

Neil

Edited September 13, 2015 by Downendian

[Andy Kirkham]

LawrenceHill5 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

This one was taken early in 1974. I notice that the electrification flashes are low down; am I right in thinking this indicates a Swindon-built machine?

 

Perhaps  this is wishful thinking, but is the nameplate deeper than usual? I am wondering if it could be D1000 herself

(edit) perhaps not - the only late-era picture I have found of D1000 shows two lamp irons the same size, whereas on this loco, the left-hand one is extended. I suppose the other end could be different, of course.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Andy Kirkham

[stovepipe]

Yes, looks like a Swindon example to me. Long nameplate, large lamp iron, and OHLW position does point to D1000. She didn't last much after this date.

https://flic.kr/p/tGNrJa

Edited September 13, 2015 by stovepipe

[stovepipe]

A Class 52 rolls into Didcot with an express from South Wales, December 31 1973 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

I'm almost convinced that I can make out the name "Vanguard" on the plate. Can anyone confirm if this is plausible? The date is 31/12/73.

Many thanks for your efforts!

 

Yes I think this is Vanguard too from the nameplate. It has a rust mark on the front left just by the vertical handrail that appears on this picture too.

https://flic.kr/p/nK2zxr

[Rugd1022]

It does look very much like D1000 in your post '57 Andy, so far (I ain't finished yet though Guv) all the shots I have of D1000 in blue after it was dual braked (March '72) show it with two standard sized lamp irons on the front. I know I have a shot of it at Swindon after withdrawal waiting to be shunted into the Con Yard in '74, once I find it I'll confirm..!

Edited September 13, 2015 by Rugd1022

[Rugd1022]

Just found a shot of D1000 at Old Oak dated 22/7/73 which shows it clearly having the lamp iron extension at 'B' end (same end as in your pic).

 

Still looking for that condemned pic...

Edited September 13, 2015 by Rugd1022

[D1047]

Hi Andy Defo D1000 at Lawrence Hill, I have a shot of it at Swindon 73 fits the pic including paint chip marks on nose and has modified lamp bracket.  Great pic

 

cheers Greg

[D1030western musketeer]

I must what ever westerns these turn out to be these are cracking photos and thanks for showing.

 

richard

[Andy Kirkham]

Hi Andy Defo D1000 at Lawrence Hill, I have a shot of it at Swindon 73 fits the pic including paint chip marks on nose and has modified lamp bracket.  Great pic

 

cheers Greg

Many thanks. All these years and I never realised I had a shot of D1000.

[Andy Kirkham]

APR 74 20. A Class 52 near Scorrier, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

There are quite a few clues: (1) Low-down electrification flashes (2) headboard brackets present (3) Sticker behind cab door (4) no obvious silver paint

After consulting Rugd1022's sticker data, the candidates seem to be 1009, 1016 and 1024. Can anyone narrow it down? It's April 1974.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Andy Kirkham

[Steve T]

APR 74 20. A Class 52 near Scorrier, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

There are quite a few clues: (1) Low-down electrification flashes (2) headboard brackets present (3) Sticker behind cab door (4) no obvious silver paint

After consulting Rugd1022's sticker data, the candidates seem to be 1009, 1016 and 1024. Can anyone narrow it down? It's April 1974.

Andy, you can rule out D1024 - it was withdrawn in early February.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Steve T

[Andy Kirkham]

APR 74 07. D1009 Western Invader at Roskear Junction, Camborne with an Up train, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

Here's 1009 just a day or so previously, and it differs. Note the scuffing of the paint just in front of the nearer cab door, but it could be the other side of course.

However I'm inclined to think that on the unidentified loco's nameplate the second word is longer than "Western", whereas "Invader" is about the same length as "Western".

 

So I guess my money's on Gladiator at the moment. Would anyone care to confirm or refute?

[Andy Kirkham]

MAY 74 31. Class 52 near Dainton Summit, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

April 1974. A short name. I think I can make out a final "E", which might suggest Duke. Is this consistent with a seeming lack of allocation stickers? I have seen pictures of 1043 in that year with stickers visible.

 

AUG 74 32. A Class 52 east of Bruton, August 16 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

Thanks to the education I've enjoyed here, I think I've spotted the M-shaped cowl unique to 1065. Am I right?

[Steve T]

MAY 74 31. Class 52 near Dainton Summit, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

April 1974. A short name. I think I can make out a final "E", which might suggest Duke. Is this consistent with a seeming lack of allocation stickers? I have seen pictures of 1043 in that year with stickers visible.

 

AUG 74 32. A Class 52 east of Bruton, August 16 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

Thanks to the education I've enjoyed here, I think I've spotted the M-shaped cowl unique to 1065. Am I right?

Andy, the first one certainly appears to be Duke - Crewe loco, no stickers, short name, only Western with a name ending in 'E' other than Enterprise.

 

As you say, the second loco gives the impression of D1065's unique cowl and is it is definitely the right end for said embellishment.

 

It has to be said, it's been a bit of an eye-opener to me just how easy some Thousands are to identify with just a few clues - always assumed it was just the Warships that were so easy to pin down.

 

Great photo's, by the way.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Steve T

[HillsideDepot]

 

It has to be said, it's been a bit of an eye-opener to me just how easy some Thousands are to identify with just a few clues - always assumed it was just the Warships that were so easy to pin down.

 

Great photo's, by the way.

 

Which makes it all the more challenging to model them!

 

I've not started work yet, but have collected lots of photos of my chosen three, worked out which side/end is which (not easy in itself) and marked up the various dents, scrapes, paint fades and so on, on a series of diagrams from Carter's book (yes, I know the detail on those drawings needs to be treated with care, but they are fine for this). Whether I can get the models to be recognisable in the same way that the experts are identifying these wonderful photos remains to be seen, but generic wafts of "under frame dirt" and "exhaust black" won't cut it with the 1000s.

[Andy Kirkham]

AUG 74 19. A Class 52 at Maidenhead, July 26 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

July 26 1974. A Swindon machine judging by the electrification flashes. Sticker over the number plate. (And the rear cab door seems to have been left open)

 

A Class 52 on a London-bound express near Cholsey, December 31 1973 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

Dec 31 1973. My panning technique is fine, but shutter speed inadequate. There doesn't seem very much distinctive about this one, except perhaps the scrapes on the yellow paint at the corner of the cab - and is the nearer vertical grab rail bowed inwards? (note its shadow).

Edited September 26, 2015 by Andy Kirkham

[Downendian]

MAY 74 31. Class 52 near Dainton Summit, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

April 1974. A short name. I think I can make out a final "E", which might suggest Duke. Is this consistent with a seeming lack of allocation stickers? I have seen pictures of 1043 in that year with stickers visible.

 

AUG 74 32. A Class 52 east of Bruton, August 16 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

Thanks to the education I've enjoyed here, I think I've spotted the M-shaped cowl unique to 1065. Am I right?

2nd photo is certainly D1065. Only member of the class to have this cowl.

Neil

[D1047]

AUG 74 19. A Class 52 at Maidenhead, July 26 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

July 26 1974. A Swindon machine judging by the electrification flashes. Sticker over the number plate. (And the rear cab door seems to have been left open)

 

A Class 52 on a London-bound express near Cholsey, December 31 1973 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

Dec 31 1973. My panning technique is fine, but shutter speed inadequate. There doesn't seem very much distinctive about this one, except perhaps the scrapes on the yellow paint at the corner of the cab - and is the nearer vertical grab rail bowed inwards? (note its shadow).

Hi Andy The bottom pic is D1070 matching its battle scars  Great pics keep em coming

 

cheers Greg

[Andy Kirkham]

Hi Andy The bottom pic is D1070 matching its battle scars  Great pics keep em coming

 

cheers Greg

Very many thanks, Greg

[Andy Kirkham]

Here are a couple that seem hopeless on the face of it, but...

APR 73 03. A Class 52 climbs away from the Severn tunnel near Pilning, March or April 1973 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

It is a Swindon machine, and the nameplate looks as if it is the same depth as the number plate (although that might just be the blur of the photo). Could it be D1000 again?

 

A Class 52 on the diverted 13:15 Paddington-Cardiff service at Narroways Hill Junction, 1975 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

A poor picture due to a focusing mishap. But the loco seems to have (1) no allocation stickers (2) D still visible on the number plate (3) apparently some dents or scrapes on the corner of the cab. And it is the summer of 1975, so there are fewer to choose from.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Andy Kirkham