Jump to content

Andy Kirkham

Western Identification Sought

Recommended Posts

It's just the late Laira repaints Nidge - I.e the silver trimmings as Peter puts it.

 

Neil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 

Thanks everyone, once again or your contributions. I had imagined that this one would be absolutely straightforward. To me the evidence seems to favour 1034, which has the added benefit of identifying a probable date.

 

Having never been a great note taker while photographing, I'm now trying to establish the best chronology I can for my 70s slides. In the spirit of full disclosure I should mention that there is a possibility that some of these may be published in a book, and part of my motivation is to be able to provide accurate and informative captions.

 

So as long as you don't feel exploited, perhaps I can take the liberty of posting a few more Western shots for identification.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Post away Andy!

 

Here goes with a run down of the fifty four members of the class which were repainted at Laira from 1972 onwards, gen from Adrian Curtis's 'Western Liveries' book and observing / checking other sources :

 

* All had the 'D' of their numberplates painted black except D1010, D1023 and D1051 which were silver.

 

* The 'LA' depot allocation stickers were placed (if applied at all) either above the numberplate (AN) or behind the cab door (BCD).

 

* Date given is the release date off Laira.

 

* A few were given more than one repaint.

 

D1001 10/9/74 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1003 2/10/73 AN, silver footrests.

 

D1005 21/9/73 BCD, white wheel rims, silver buffers.

 

D1006 19/7/74 AN, silver windscree nsurrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1008 10/4/74 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1009 31/3/73 BCD.

 

D1009 4/7/75 BCD, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1009 5/9/76 AN, wheelrims painted silver at Old Oak Common.

 

D1010 9/5/75 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1011 13/10/74 AN, silver windscreen surrounds.

 

D1012 27/4/74 AN, silver windscreen surrounds.

 

D1013 22/9/74 AN, white wheelrims, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1013 13/9/75 AN, silver wheelrims, silver windscreens, silver footrests, silver buffers.

 

D1013 30/4/76 name and numberplates painted red.

 

D1016 21/4/73 BCD.

 

D1021 9/10/74 AN, silver windscreen surrounds.

 

D1023 1/10/76 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1024 3/5/73 BCD.

 

D1025 28/9/73 BCD (placed higher up than normal)

 

D1026 29/6/74 AN, silver windscreen surrounds.

 

D1027 30/12/72 BCD.

 

D1028 20/12/73 BCD.

 

D1029 24/4/74 AN ('A' end only, none applied at the 'B' end, also no date panel at 'B' end), silver windscreen surrounds.

 

D1030 5/7/74 No allocation stickers applied, silver windscreen surrounds, headcode glass rubber grommets painted yellow.

 

D1031 14/7/73 BCD.

 

D1033 21/4/73 BCD (loco may have only been partially repainted).

 

D1034 17/4/74 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1035 10/11/73 AN, No allocation sticker applied at 'A' end.

 

D1036 29/5/75 AN, silver windscree nsurrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1037 22/5/74 AN.

 

D1038 10/1/73 BCD.

 

D1041 8/5/73 BCD.

 

D1043 18/11/73 AN.

 

D1044 7/4/73 BCD.

 

D1045 6/9/73 (Loco out of store at Laira), BCD.

 

D1046 22/6/74 No allocation sticker applied at 'B' end, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests. 

 

D1047 28/5/73 No allocation stickers or data panels applied.

 

D1048 17/4/74 AN.

 

D104926/6/74 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1050 10/5/73 BCD (at 'A' end only, no allocation sticker applied at 'B' end).

 

D1051 21/3/75 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1052 29/8/73 BCD.

 

D1053 27/4/75 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1054 31/8/73 BCD.

 

D1055 14/5/73 BCD.

 

D1056 19/2/74 BCD.

 

D1059 30/1/73 BCD.

 

D1061 23/5/73 BCD.

 

D1062 8/9/73 No allocation stickers applied.

 

D1064 19/9/74 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1067 26/12/72 BCD (Boxing Day overtime..?).

 

D1068 9/6/74 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1069 16/7/73 BCD.

 

D1070 24/6/75 AN, silver footrests (may have received a full repaint in '73 but unconfirmed).

 

D1071 21/5/75 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1072 31/5/73 BCD.

 

D1073 25/3/73 BCD.

 

A couple of things worth pointing out about the depot allocation stickers, locos which received repaints before Autumn '73 had the 1968 style like this placed behind the cab doors...

 

post-7638-0-22790700-1440947880_thumb.jpg

 

Those painted after this time had the more familier 1973 style like this placed above the number plate...

 

post-7638-0-83020800-1440948310.jpg

 

Also, only the early 1968 style data panels were ever applied to the Westerns...

 

post-7638-0-53489200-1440948121.jpg

 

;-)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Terrific stuff Nidge. Pressing the thanks button just didn't seem to be enough.

Neil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Chaps

 

Right this might give us the date and the engine after digging around my records

 

D1008 was released off Laira on the 10th April 74 and the first train it worked was 2B10 0852 Ply -Pzance that day

 

it also worked 2B10 on the 11th April 74 as the head code shows in the photo.

 

I hope this helps

 

Cheers Gareth

Edited by TEDDYBEAR D9521

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Post away Andy!

 

Here goes with a run down of the fifty four members of the class which were repainted at Laira from 1972 onwards, gen from Adrian Curtis's 'Western Liveries' book and observing / checking other sources :

 

* All had the 'D' of their numberplates painted black except D1010, D1023 and D1051 which were silver.

 

* The 'LA' depot allocation stickers were placed (if applied at all) either above the numberplate (AN) or behind the cab door (BCD).

 

* Date given is the release date off Laira.

 

* A few were given more than one repaint.

 

D1001 10/9/74 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1003 2/10/73 AN, silver footrests.

 

D1005 21/9/73 BCD, white wheel rims, silver buffers.

 

D1006 19/7/74 AN, silver windscree nsurrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1008 10/4/74 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1009 31/3/73 BCD.

 

D1009 4/7/75 BCD, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1009 5/9/76 AN, wheelrims painted silver at Old Oak Common.

 

D1010 9/5/75 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1011 13/10/74 AN, silver windscreen surrounds.

 

D1012 27/4/74 AN, silver windscreen surrounds.

 

D1013 22/9/74 AN, white wheelrims, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1013 13/9/75 AN, silver wheelrims, silver windscreens, silver footrests, silver buffers.

 

D1013 30/4/76 name and numberplates painted red.

 

D1016 21/4/73 BCD.

 

D1021 9/10/74 AN, silver windscreen surrounds.

 

D1023 1/10/76 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1024 3/5/73 BCD.

 

D1025 28/9/73 BCD (placed higher up than normal)

 

D1026 29/6/74 AN, silver windscreen surrounds.

 

D1027 30/12/72 BCD.

 

D1028 20/12/73 BCD.

 

D1029 24/4/74 AN ('A' end only, none applied at the 'B' end, also no date panel at 'B' end), silver windscreen surrounds.

 

D1030 5/7/74 No allocation stickers applied, silver windscreen surrounds, headcode glass rubber grommets painted yellow.

 

D1031 14/7/73 BCD.

 

D1033 21/4/73 BCD (loco may have only been partially repainted).

 

D1034 17/4/74 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1035 10/11/73 AN, No allocation sticker applied at 'A' end.

 

D1036 29/5/75 AN, silver windscree nsurrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1037 22/5/74 AN.

 

D1038 10/1/73 BCD.

 

D1041 8/5/73 BCD.

 

D1043 18/11/73 AN.

 

D1044 7/4/73 BCD.

 

D1045 6/9/73 (Loco out of store at Laira), BCD.

 

D1046 22/6/74 No allocation sticker applied at 'B' end, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests. 

 

D1047 28/5/73 No allocation stickers or data panels applied.

 

D1048 17/4/74 AN.

 

D104926/6/74 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1050 10/5/73 BCD (at 'A' end only, no allocation sticker applied at 'B' end).

 

D1051 21/3/75 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1052 29/8/73 BCD.

 

D1053 27/4/75 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1054 31/8/73 BCD.

 

D1055 14/5/73 BCD.

 

D1056 19/2/74 BCD.

 

D1059 30/1/73 BCD.

 

D1061 23/5/73 BCD.

 

D1062 8/9/73 No allocation stickers applied.

 

D1064 19/9/74 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1067 26/12/72 BCD (Boxing Day overtime..?).

 

D1068 9/6/74 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1069 16/7/73 BCD.

 

D1070 24/6/75 AN, silver footrests (may have received a full repaint in '73 but unconfirmed).

 

D1071 21/5/75 AN, silver windscreen surrounds, silver footrests.

 

D1072 31/5/73 BCD.

 

D1073 25/3/73 BCD.

 

A couple of things worth pointing out about the depot allocation stickers, locos which received repaints before Autumn '73 had the 1968 style like this placed behind the cab doors...

 

attachicon.gifSVR #444 D1013a.jpg

 

Those painted after this time had the more familier 1973 style like this placed above the number plate...

 

attachicon.gifBRWR D1052 Reading.jpg

 

Also, only the early 1968 style data panels were ever applied to the Westerns...

 

attachicon.gifWestern Class 52 data panel.jpg

 

;-)

D1026 in Adrian Curtis book as you quoted shows D1026 not having silver steps but in his other book Teenage Lament 74 there's a photo with them painted silver June 74

Cheers Gareth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Teddybear - that's one the few books of Adrians I don't have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, how about this one.

10419834533_1edf06b2fb_z.jpgAPR 74 21. A Class 52 with a Down parcels train between Scorrier and Chacewater, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

The numberplate is nearly legible, and it looks to me like D1065 (Western Consort). This machine, I believe, had headboard clips at one end only.

 

Is this plausible?

 

And this.

10419655055_2e8e492eee_z.jpgFEB 74 05. A class 52 at Carn Brea between Camborne and Redruth, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

It is almost certainly D103X and it looks to me like 1039, but I realise that cannot be as D1039 had rectangular ventilator cut-outs. I wonder if it is D1035, but heck! that last digit still looks like a 9 to me.

Edited by Andy Kirkham
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andy indeed 1st pic could be D1065 - the other end should have an M-shaped horn cowl if you could see it;)

 

Latter photo D1038/9 were both out of service by then so those can be discounted.

 

Neil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Second photo Andy at Carn Brea, I think it's D1035, it has the old style Laira shed sticker to the right of the cab door.

 

Lovely phots by the way, they both have the look of Roger Geach shots about them... keep 'em coming!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are a couple near Dawlish

 

10068076783_a6f362ec47_z.jpgAPR 74 27. A Western at Clerks Tunnel, Dawlish, Easter 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

I fancy I can make out "Monitor" on the nameplate, but I'm not sure

 

10068075033_584788b31a_z.jpgAPR 74 26. A Western (possibly D1013 Western Ranger) on an Up train approaching Clerks Tunnel, Dawlish, Easter 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

The number looks very much like 1013, but I'd like to be certain.

 

They were both taken around Easter 1974, a little before the Drump Lane one.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty clear photo of D1063s nameplate in the first one Andy - I'm in no doubt it reads Monitor. Another one with headboard clips on one end only.

Neil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Second photo Andy at Carn Brea, I think it's D1035, it has the old style Laira shed sticker to the right of the cab door.

 

Lovely phots by the way, they both have the look of Roger Geach shots about them... keep 'em coming!

 

I agree 1035 - you can make out Yeoman in the name on the largest setting.

 

And yes 1065 for the first one.

 

Lovely photos both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Highly evocative photos Andy, despite the misty weather they look so inviting... I want to drive down to Dawlish right now! The rockface and cess look like they're carpeted in green teddybear fur!

 

I'd agree on both id's, Monitor and Ranger, I have photos of Monitor in a similar condition from '73 / '74, and Ranger has the tell tale low down OLE warning flashes on the front.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, how about this one.

10419834533_1edf06b2fb_z.jpgAPR 74 21. A Class 52 with a Down parcels train between Scorrier and Chacewater, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

The numberplate is nearly legible, and it looks to me like D1065 (Western Consort). This machine, I believe, had headboard clips at one end only.

 

Is this plausible?

 

And this.

10419655055_2e8e492eee_z.jpgFEB 74 05. A class 52 at Carn Brea between Camborne and Redruth, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

It is almost certainly D103X and it looks to me like 1039, but I realise that cannot be as D1039 had rectangular ventilator cut-outs. I wonder if it is D1035, but heck! that last digit still looks like a 9 to me.

Hi Andy

 

The problem with no headboard clips is D1046 had them missing as well. 3B10 Padd-Penzance working

 

Still not sure on the first photo but the second photo could be D1055 as it worked this train on the 3rd April 74 1100 hrs Penzance ~ Padd

 

If you look it has a depot sticker behind the door I have a photo of D1055 at OOC which matches this.

 

Cheers Gareth

Edited by TEDDYBEAR D9521

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are a couple near Dawlish

 

10068076783_a6f362ec47_z.jpgAPR 74 27. A Western at Clerks Tunnel, Dawlish, Easter 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

I fancy I can make out "Monitor" on the nameplate, but I'm not sure

 

10068075033_584788b31a_z.jpgAPR 74 26. A Western (possibly D1013 Western Ranger) on an Up train approaching Clerks Tunnel, Dawlish, Easter 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

The number looks very much like 1013, but I'd like to be certain.

 

They were both taken around Easter 1974, a little before the Drump Lane one.

Hi Andy

 

With these 2 still trying to decide on the first one but the second one I think is D1013 as well the only thing that's throwing it out is the head code 1A67 was 1725 hrs Cardiff - Padd

 

1B15 was 1030 hrs Padd-Pzance

Cheers Gareth

Edited by TEDDYBEAR D9521

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Andy

 

The problem with no headboard clips is D1046 had them missing as well. 3B10 Padd-Penzance working

 

Still not sure on the first photo but the second photo could be D1055 as it worked this train on the 3rd April 74 1100 hrs Penzance ~ Padd

 

If you look it has a depot sticker behind the door I have a photo of D1055 at OOC which matches this.

 

Cheers Gareth

Thanks for the input Gareth.

 

I've assumed for years that the Carn Brea photo was 1974, but since I've been scrutinising them more closely, I've come to suspect I took it in 1973. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the input Gareth.

 

I've assumed for years that the Carn Brea photo was 1974, but since I've been scrutinising them more closely, I've come to suspect I took it in 1973. 

 

Hi Andy

 

Looking back on my records on April 20th 1974 3B10 was worked by D1064

 

3B10 was 1100hrs Ply-Pzance parcels not Padd as i stated. 

 

Also headboard clips missing D1025/26/27/29/40/46/49 had them missing.

 

Looking again at 3B10 the loco has had it's number painted i have a photo of D1025 at Newton Abbott shed with it's number painted like this no headboard clips and taken in May 74.

 

I shall have a look back at some of my 1973 records to see what i can find.

 

Cheers GARETH

Edited by TEDDYBEAR D9521

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a couple taken at Bathampton.

10420769843_fed1d12589_z.jpgA Class 52 passes Bathampton with a parcels train, January 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

This Western lacks headboard clips, but the nameplate isn't legible, except that the second word looks to be about the same length as "Western" or a fraction longer.

 

10420823716_7ae7f90b08_z.jpgA Class 52 (possibly D1022 Western Sentinel) with a diverted Paddington-West of England train at Bathampton. January 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

As the caption says, the numberplate looks very like 1022, but confirmation would be welcome.

 

I'd also very much like to establish the date if that were possible. It was a Sunday in January 1974 when West of England trains were diverted via Bristol due to scheduled engineering works. Jan 6 is quite possible but I'm not certain. Also, on reviewing the chronology of my slides, I think my statement in the captions that the diversions occurred on two successive Sundays may be mistaken.

 

Finally for completeness, I'll post a couple more from the same glorious day, although I think the subjects are probably too distant to identify.

10420758534_8a09717351_z.jpgA Class 52 with a diverted West of England-Paddington train east of Bath. January 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

 

10428630933_0c690f493b_z.jpgA Class 52 with a diverted West of England-Paddington train east of Bath. January 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The first shot appears to be D1026 on zooming in on the nameplate, the first letter certainly looks like a "C" and ends with a "N".

D1022 I'm not so sure as that single headboard clip should be a dead giveaway, I've not found any pictures of Sentinel with one clip with a brief search.

No clues on the Bathampton shots!

Neil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

D1022 I'm not so sure as that single headboard clip should be a dead giveaway, I've not found any pictures of Sentinel with one clip with a brief search.

No clues on the Bathampton shots!

Neil

Doh! Ignore the single clip. I've just checked the slide and it's got the usual pair: that slide is due for a re-scan. The dust removal feature of my scanning software tends to obliterate headboard clips.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Andy - I thought I'd never seen a monoclip Western before!

Lovely photos again by the way.

Neil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone remember / got this vinyl LP record ? (I have !!)

 

https://continuo.wordpress.com/2009/06/01/westerns-diesel-hydraulics-on-the-western-region-in-1974/

 

westerns-front.jpg

 

Some evocative sounds - trouble is my stylus is Kaput !!

 

Brit15

 

Oh yes, great fun on full volume when the folks (and neighbours) are out! Well, it was, as I haven't played it for years as the turntable's packed away these days......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.