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Satan's Goldfish

Godfrey Pass 2 - Swiss Meter Gauge in the Garden - Bored, Planning, Questions!

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Currently in the process of sorting the house ready to move again, so modelling has ground to a halt for a while but the LGB has come out of storage :)

 

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Because of our current nomadic lifestyle, building a garden railway is a non-starter. Some may remember I had a topic called Godfrey Pass a while ago where I was trying to lay the G gauge into the existing garden but then had to move and take it all up. The only use it's seen since then was a loop around the tree one Christmas.

 

Seeing it all again has reignited my love of little red Swiss trains so I've been thinking and planning and despite not knowing what garden this will end up in I can continue getting all the parts I need.

 

My main requirement is for a garden circuit where I can just sit and watch trains go by with a beer. But I don't want it to be too predictable with the same train going the same route every single time. Also, there are some impressive layouts out there that have taken over gardens, but that's not what I want. I want a line that runs through the garden, not dominate it with multiple stations in every corner. My interest in Swiss meter gauge at this scale means it's very RhB orientated but I'm trying to get more shorter FO style trains into it. I'm hoping to 'limit' it to train lengths of 'just' 14 feet which is a max of loco + 5 bogie carriages or equivalent freight, so no big Glacier Express style services.

 

The plan is fairly simple and flexible as I don't know what garden it is likely to end up in. It consists of a through fiddle yard (in a very secure locked shed) capable of holding up to 6 trains, both ends of the fiddle yard will head to junction station (the main scenic feature) which will have a couple of sidings for when I do fancy operating rather than just watching, and the third line from the junction station will head to a hidden return loop.

 

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The only G model building I have is the Pola 'Rotthausen' station (with 'Villars' on the name board instead as I went there skiing once) and the station layout is based around that and a big scissor crossing similar to Hergiswil on the LSE (skiing holiday again!). The main running lines are each side of platform 2 and 3 which I'd like an RhB style platform canopy on.

 

post-9147-0-66752900-1440776262_thumb.jpg

 

The good thing with the design is it can be bent to fit the garden as required, either just running around the edge, or looping in over itself to be a bit more complex.

 

post-9147-0-91115900-1440776127_thumb.jpg

 

For the automatic operation, magnets on the engines and reed switches between the track will be used to monitor movement. 2 trains can be held in the far loop. So, train 1 will leave the fiddle yard, pass through the station then get held at the far loop. Train 2 will leave the fiddle yard in the opposite direction, pass through the station, and head for the far loop. When it clears the line into the loop, train 1 will return to the station. Train 3 will leave the fiddle yard in the same direction as train 1 and pass train 1 at the station. Train 1 will return to the fiddle yard along the line that train 3 has just come from (and end up in the fiddle yard facing the opposite way to which it started). Train 1s arrival at the fiddle yard will trigger train 4 to leave the fiddle yard in the same direction that train 2 did, in theory train 4 should pass train 2 in the station, and then train 2 will head back to the fiddle yard along the route that train 4 has just come from, then trigger train 5 which departs the way train 1 did originally, and so on.

 

This pattern means a minimum of 3 trains are required (train 1 becomes train 4 in the above description) and all trains will head in both directions along all 3 lines. It won't matter if there's an even or odd number of trains available, in fact an even number will mix up running orders even more. The station is just a scenic passing loop, I'm still working in my head on how to get automatic operations to only occasionally use platform 1 randomly.

 

Gained a bridge recently which is useful.

 

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For stock, I currently have 2x Ge4/4iii, 1xGe4/4ii, and 1x Ge6/6i, 10x bogie carriages and 5x bogie wagons, 2x 4 wheel wagons, plus 2x FO Tm2/2 diesels, all of which Is

LGB that I've collected over the last 17 years. I'm quite happy with this level of stock and suspect it will slowly get added to anyway, another 'panorama' carriage and a 2nd class FO carriage (LGB 3267) would be nice as would more wagons, but there's also a couple of Kiss items I'd like but struggling to find. I would like a couple of their middle entry carriages, I'm even prepared to take Mrs SG for a weekend away on the continent to get those! Even more difficult to locate is a FO HGe4/4i, it looks like Kiss, Scheba, and possible a couple of others have produced this loco, I've even found a site quoting a price higher than most secondhand cars, but can I find any 'real' information on their availability and price? Can I hell. Any useful tips from the more knowledgeable out there? International ebay has proved a bust so far, looks like full length middle entry Kiss carriages may be available from grootspoor but my German isn't the best :(

 

That's the plan anyway, slow progress as life develops. The electronics look to be very fun for me with this plan :)

 

Note to self edit: http://gbdb.info/search.php?show_result=1&l=english&page=1come on GCSE D in German!

Edited by Satan's Goldfish
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Found my missing stock! The yellow open tourist carriage is now in the pile where it belongs, the pile moved to a different room this morning so the boxes have been orientated to show what the train options are for those interested:

 

post-9147-0-57112600-1440949185_thumb.jpg

 

There's a Ge4/4iii like this in bubble wrap:

 

http://carsandtrains.com/ironroad/ggauge/lgbrhb644.html

 

and a red RhB 1st class like this bubble wrapped too:

 

http://www.arcadiarail.co.uk/products/lgb/trains/passenger-coach/34670/rhb-1st-class-passenger-car.html

 

For the younger RMWebbers out there contemplating G in the garden, take note that most of this was bought when I was a) had a good wage coming in, and b) didn't have a wife and children. Family and buying LGB don't mix, you've got to get as much as you can while you're single!

 

 

 

Of course, finding the rest of the stock means I now have everything I want to sell, time to figure out the new buy and sell site I suppose.....

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Half assed planning update.

 

Now we've moved to the new house and I've got to grips with my garden options, I've received approval from Mrs SG for a 12x30 hobby shed which would double up as the garden railway fiddle yard. The size means I can increase planned train length to 16ft (loco + 6 big coaches) to create better size differences between long passenger and freight and small local stoppers. I'm toying with going all out for 20ft trains of loco and 8 coaches but will need to run some tests to see if they will cope with tight reverse curves in the end loop.

 

I've also been doing some planning tweeks. As much as it pains me, I'm removing the scissor crossover from the plan. The R5 LGB points are over £100 each, it's easy for costs to get silly at this size. Instead, 1 line will access platforms 1 and 2, and the other line platforms 2 and 3. This will require 2x R3 points instead but still allows envisaged operations of passing trains from all routes. Should make wiring easier too :)

 

Edit: forgot to add that removing the scissor leaves the 30 degree crossing (along with all the redundant R1 curves I have) available for the annual figure 8 around the Christmas tree. Just to please Mrs SG :)

Edited by Satan's Goldfish
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Well, this is worrying for me to stumble over:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Zenner-Ausfadelung-rechts-R3-aus-Regelspur-64mm-Spur-2-fur-LGB-/272048284268?hash=item3f5757626c:g:Z-cAAOSwsFpWSxoo

 

Anyone know what/if there's any SBB/CFF available in gauge 3?!

 

Same seller also has 45 degree crossings so the scissor could be back in play.....

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Planning Plods on.....

 

Got to get this right Mrs SG's garden is at stake! A Couple of things have been worked out, The OO Fiddle Yard size that the storage yard for this will share a shed with has set my stock length limit at 16ft (Loco + 6) which help gives a limit for stations etc. Also, an additional simple passing loop station has been added which will slot in on 1 of the lines from the storage shed. This will give me the chance to set up 2 levels of intensity of automatic operation with the most intense theoretically having 5 trains running at once.

 

Gradients and impressive engineering works being a feature of the RhB, i've decided i'd like to incorporate the big girder bridge as the centre part of a big arched viaduct, probably spanning a pond or stream. Most likely, the fiddle yard will be raised off the floor to make it more accessible so one end of this viaduct can be towards the shed. After the viaduct i'd like a spiral to drop the line down to the main garden/station level. The other route out of the shed can just be a long gentle slope around the garden borders.

 

post-9147-0-02545900-1451152499_thumb.jpg

 

 

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While the scissors is nice to have it's going to be expensive and you could use those two points to add a siding to the through and return loop stations to allow freight to drop off and pick up a wagon ;)

Depends how you want to run the layout as the scissors allows more just running trains ;)

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Inspiration for you from Werners layout I was fortunate enough to visit.

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While the scissors is nice to have it's going to be expensive and you could use those two points to add a siding to the through and return loop stations to allow freight to drop off and pick up a wagon ;)

Depends how you want to run the layout as the scissors allows more just running trains ;)

Hi Paul,

 

The scissors has already been chopped down once, I was originally looking at the LGB R5 and 30 degree crossing to make it. It's now LGB R3 with a TrainLine 45 degree crossing. The number of points needed would be the same whether the crossing is there or not so decided sod it, I like the way the old Filisur plan looked and the current Hersigwil near Luzern on the ZB.

 

Most operations will be based around being able to relax and watch with a beer. Any simple shunting if the mood takes me rather than just watching trains go by will happen at the junction station, that is due to be the main area of operations if it's being operator controlled rather than automatic. I know most RhB stations should have a siding or 2, they can always be added in the future if I get more adventurous. Most garden railway videos I see on youtube of this type seem to be of watching fixed formations go by. I'm fine with that!

 

 

That picture is just going to make me want to make trains longer again! Bad man!

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If it makes you feel any better his 'rockery' was about 50ft across and the mini Landwasser viaduct so heavy it had sunk an inch at one end!

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I think that may be a quarry rather than a rockery! Noted though that good viaduct foundations are useful......

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....or you can do what I did, just build it..... at the beginning:

 

post-586-0-35919200-1451212708.jpg

 

then start expanding and add a mountain:

 

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and another mountain to get back to ground level:

 

post-586-0-85833300-1451212898.jpg

 

make a land grab on the other side of the garden:

 

post-586-0-71093400-1451212943.jpg

 

.....and many years later you can sit down, relax and watch the trains go round:

 

post-586-0-28978000-1451213147.jpg

 

Looking forward to seeing you layout develop. Enjoy!!

 

Keith

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then start expanding and add a mountain:

and you thought I was corrupting ;)

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Been having a splurge recently and decided it was time to answering the question 'just how different are the 2 lengths of Kiss middle entrance carriages?'

 

The red is a 1st class shorty, the green is a 2nd class scale length.

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The difference in length is only slight, they don't look too off coupled together as there are other detail differences like door styles that help make them look very different to each other.

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Both come in the same length box though! I'm not sure if there were shorter middle entrance carriages in reality for Bernina use, the red one will be spending most it's running time with LGB Bernina liveried carriages though.

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Productive evening adding couplings to new stock and fixing items in need of attention.

 

But can anyone point me in the direction of what wood lgb have used to create these loads please? (Got more empty stake wagons in need of some wood)

 

post-9147-0-71120600-1482016718_thumb.jpg

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Happy early Christmas present to me!

 

I wouldn't normally bother sharing pictures of new stock but I noticed this variation of the common RhB stake wagon at Thusis on holiday earlier this year and was pleased to find LGB produced it. I'm proper stoked with this one. Very quick delivery from Germany despite the time of year. Feels 'fragile' when handled (lots of parts are just clipped on) but very solid when sat on rails. I didn't expect the sides to drop and ends to remove, but looks like I now also have a car carrier when it snows :)

 

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Mental track planning continues. I've gone off the idea of having storage tracks in the shed now, the pile of stock is much larger than when I started this thread and I think I'd rather keep it secure boxed in the house when not in use. This does mean the layout plan will need to be it's own contained network that goes nowhere, so the main junction station needs expanding slightly to accommodate more stock..... and shunting!

 

I've got a couple of plan ideas in my head which I'll draw up to get critiqued before too much longer, one is similar to the layout plans earlier in the thread but the other is a bit different. This does mean I now have r1 track and points that weren't to be used on open line spare, going to have to see if it's acceptable for sidings until funds stretch to replacement r3s.

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Plan critique!

 

Ok, i've spent many many hours watching RhB (and tangenting off to other swiss locations) videos on Youtube covering the last couple of decades to try and come up with a re-design for the main junction station that will not only look prototypically inspired but also be able to function as stock storage/main layout operating location, and not cost too much in turnouts. There's an outline of my thinking below with prototype locations for reference. The plan also has the ability to be built in stages as funds/construction time dictates.

 

The 'finished' layout plan has 4 platform faces, 1 directly at the front of the station, 2 is reached by crossing 1s track to a narrow platform between the tracks, and 3 and 4 are each side of a large island (Reichenau-Tamins (amongst many i suspect!)) A 5th loop is there for freight and shunting, future requirements pending there could also be a 6th added if needed. The scissors are still there for the junction along with a double-slip (Filisur pre-remodelling) as scissors and slips seem popular across the network, despite the increased cost i think this will help with location setting and model operating. From tracks 4 and 5 is access to stock sidings (green, to use up R1 points). There is a short siding at the end of platform 1 alongside a raised loading platform for the above pictured car loading (Thusis)

 

For build/purchasing purposes i've split it down in to phases, to start with would be all the black track which would be enough to get the layout running, then the blue stretch as things progress and finally red. The blue part also introduces some 2 line running/long dynamic loops which the RhB seem to be adding in many locations (Filisur post-remodelling and others). The dynamic loop to the left of the plan would be long enough to hold an entire train which makes the black part of it suitable as a headshunt as required moving stock from the green sidings. The 2 tracks heading off to the right can either be unidirectional to lead to a simple return loop if sticking with the balloon loop plan (saving some turnout costs!) or they could be treated as 2 bidirectional single tracks, each feeding back around to one of the lines at the other end of the junction station. I'm toying with that idea as it will make the electrics much easier (better reliability) and create 2 seperate track circuits around the garden (multiple person working). The down side though is a lot more garden space will be needed to run to tracks around (land grab time!) and once loop stations along each line are added the total track costs will be much higher in the long run. But that's all concerns for when it can get built, only concern is the main station plan critique today.

 

post-9147-0-98894300-1484305515_thumb.jpg

 

It needs more wagon sidings around the station building, but they can evolve long term.

 

Am i missing anything or is there anything in it that's a strict RhB no-no? Cheers.

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I think it looks RhB :) one thing I would say is don't get too hooked into dynamic loops as they will be huge to work like the real thing in a model and tend to just look like double track. It depends what you're after but the RhB is still mainly a single track railway unless you model the urban stretch near Chur and Landquart.

Settling for R1 for now in sidings will allow you to test operation and buy the right amount of the more expensive R3's later so that's a good plan too. Keep it going :)

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Cheers Paul, good to hear i've got it right! Length of loops will be worked around what the rest of the layout plan ends up being and what is most useful operationally. The bit to the left along side the scissors will just be 1 train length and the bit to the right depends where the rest of the garden goes.

 

Time to start squirrelling more track when Mrs SG isn't looking.

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Getting in the holiday mood! Off to Luzern for a long weekend and trip over the Gotthard as a late birthday present from Mrs SG (I think she's deliberately only allocated hand luggage for the flight so I can't pick anything LGB to bring back....)

 

I managed to find an item on my wish list a couple of weeks ago so I now have a 2nd class FO coach for my 'retro' Glacier Express :)

 

post-9147-0-04054200-1493214216_thumb.jpg

 

So while Mrs SG is at work and I was 'tidying', it felt rude not get in the holiday mood by seeing how my GE set now looks. Neither Ge4/4iii was to hand so crocodile had to stand in.

 

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She wants to be glad I'm not sure where the 5amp controller is or it could have been doing loops of the house by tonight.

 

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While I'm at it, green Train!

 

post-9147-0-12835500-1493214661_thumb.jpg

 

1st class Bernina standing in for a well packed plain red 1st class coach. This does show quite well how long the Kiss coach is compared to the LGB.

 

post-9147-0-65074500-1493214701_thumb.jpg

 

That's all for today, the red train can wait until next time ;)

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Nice I like a bit of retro RhB :)

The greens next to red and whites of the FO set each other off nicely, along with the dark window surrounds of the Bernina stock. Everything RhB red and MGB is just a bit too plain.

 

I'd like to see some evidence to justify the 4/4iii's on green coaches but I think I'm out of luck there.

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Definitely no overlap with the green era except steam ;) but then you can have the 4/4iii in assorted liveries ;)

 

Ps get some more vans and it can be very colourful :)

post-6968-0-09578000-1493218249.jpg

Edited by PaulRhB
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Like this?

 

post-9147-0-49874300-1493220370_thumb.jpg

 

And to think, I promised myself I wasn't going to unbox any wagons...

 

Edit: side note, given the wagons and carriages I have, if I were to decide to model a prototype location I've kinda limited myself to Reichenau-Tamins! At least there's an excuse for double track.

Edited by Satan's Goldfish
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Like this?

 

attachicon.gif20170426_162327.jpg

 

And to think, I promised myself I wasn't going to unbox any wagons...

 

Edit: side note, given the wagons and carriages I have, if I were to decide to model a prototype location I've kinda limited myself to Reichenau-Tamins! At least there's an excuse for double track.

It's a start  . . . . .  :devil:

 

You're not really limited to Reichenau as the vans aren't exclusive to the named traffic, they do turn up in other places occasionally ;)

Edited by PaulRhB

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