1951 Pullman Scratchbuild in 1/32

[richard i]

You need to not fit the lamps yet because you need to work out how to light them. 
said with a smiling face. 
richard 

[hendie]

On 23/05/2020 at 17:21, richard i said:

You need to not fit the lamps yet because you need to work out how to light them. 

 

I'll work out the method if you want to come across and fit them!

 

 

Things are continuing to move in a forwards direction.  A lot of the stuff over the last few days has been of the cut, sand, stain, repeat persuasion. Infinitely boring. 

 

A break from the monotony arrived when it was time to fit a few more transfers. This lot is for the bar area

 

 

Yet more heater boxes - this time in the dining area. I surprised myself by managing to make the heat box in one continuous section and still get it to fit

 

 

Followed by more measuring, cutting, staining, etc as I needed the heater box for the bar area as well.  I realized that I couldn't cut any of the cover strips to length without having the heater box in place.

Brass got fitted to the dining area heater box - my very last section of that particular brass mesh - which is now OOP.   I had to end up buying a selection of meshes to try and get something similar, or rather, not too obviously different.

 

 

Also started making up the pelmets - and now I've got to try and keep track of what all the different pieces are for - not easy for an old sod like mesel.

 

 

A small disaster struck when I was putting the gloss coat on top of the transfers - I got a run on one of the panels.  Easy I thought - just sand it all back and re-gloss and stick another transfer on (luckily I was sensible enough to order extra).  However, when I re-glossed the panel, there was and obvious defect which showed up if you caught the light - you can just see it here if you strain.

I toyed with the idea of carrying on, but after a few milliseconds, it was Nope!, make another panel or I'd forever be staring at that defect.

 

 

This evening I managed to get all the main panels glued in place.  Still a lot of work to be done though - heater boxes, window cills, cover strips, then pelmets have still got to be fitted.

 

 

One of those jobs I'd been putting off was the TRIANON BAR sign on the art work behind the bar.  As far as I can tell, the real sign has Chromed letters mounted directly on the frame.

I tried printing out a sign (top) and painted it up, but it was too large. I tried another (center) but trying to paint the letters was difficult - they are only 2 mm high.  Then I came across a piece of photo etch (bottom) I'd made a couple of years ago and wondered if I could use that.

 

 

I painted it using the same brown I used on the side frames.  When the paint had dried, I put a piece of micromesh on top of a piece of granite, then very gently placed the painted Trianon Bar sign face down on the micromesh.  Even more carefully I rubbed the photo etch back and forth on top of the micromesh in the hope that I could remove paint only from the letters and not the rest of the signage.

I'd call that a success!   Okay the letters are now brass and not chrome as I believe they should be, but this is by far the best Trianon Bar sign I've made so I'm sticking with this.

 

 

Nothing ever goes according to plan does it?

When I came to fit the sign, I noticed that a bunch of dust had somehow got behind the glass and was very visible down the left side of the artwork.  As much as I didn't want to do this, I felt I had no choice but to try and open it up again to remove the dust.  I removed the minimum possible number of pieces to let me in - once I had got this far, I could prise up the edge of the clear sheet and blow under it to remove the dust

 

 

Then glue it all back together again!  (I had to take the photo at this angle so the light would catch the text

 

 

As you can probably see in the photo above, I also got the bar heater box made up and brass fitted.  The mesh is slightly different but close enough to the original mesh I was using.

 

 

Downsides again - the new mesh is so unbelievably thin that when the heater box is in place you can actually see through it and see the carpet on the floor. I'll need to add a dark strip of wood behind the mesh so that you can't see the carpet - a fairly easy job.

 

now to figure out how I can purchase a whole load of brass tee sections without SWMBO asking awkward questions

 

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Re the dinette.

How do the people in the "easy" seats eat their meal with only half a table in front of them?

 

Mike

[hendie]

On 27/05/2020 at 04:51, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Re the dinette.

How do the people in the "easy" seats eat their meal with only half a table in front of them?

 

Mike

 

With difficulty I would imagine.  The double seat on the other side of the wall from the dinette also has the same issue. Maybe they get a partial discount?  or extra napkins!

 

 

 

Today's update doesn't bring much in the way of yer actual physical construction process, but it does give me a massive leap forward into knowing how this is all going to come together, more of which later.

 

The dining area was fitted out. Heater box installed, curtains and pelmets installed, which leaves just the lamps, luggage racks, a mirror, table brackets, and chairs and tables. 

(The white is just the diluted PVA before drying - it disappears nicely when dried.).  Oh, I also need a few signs and some other trinkets such as passcom etc.

 

 

Paneling was finished off in the bar area. As per dining area - lamps etc still to be fitted.  In addition, in the bar area, there are two small wall mounted bench seats which I still have to make and figure out how to do the covering though that shouldn't present much of an issue.

 

 

Here's an overall view of how things stand at present. Still a few panels to fit in place, vestibules to finish off, doors between compartments to add, so still a reasonable amount of work to be done.

It's really taking shape now though.  Working at home has given me a lot of opportunity to move this thing forward.  It's amazing how much those lunch-breaks and time not spent traveling has added up.  I reckon I get about an additional 60 - 90 minutes per day on this compared to pre-CV19.

 

 

Now on to something exciting - sort of. A problem that has presented itself on and off throughout the build is how on earth am I going to display all this when it's finished?

All sorts of solutions have been proposed and explored and for every solution there was one or more downsides and I just couldn't figure it out... until last week that is!  The conversation that spouted the Carlines option. 

The more I thought about it, the more it seemed like the perfect solution.  Dare I say even... elegant ?

I can still do a full roof, and I can do carlines, cant rail and bulkheads over the car which will still allow everything to be seen. In addition the carlines will add a real element of visual interest.  I'm liking this idea more and more.

 

I then spent several hours trying to figure out just how to achieve that. Using styrene was out as the carlines consist of around 8 radii and I would never be able to get styrene to hold its shape - and I needed 30 carlines to be exactly the same.  I ruled out 3D printing as I thought it would be too fine to withstand my clumsy handling, which left brass as the only real viable option. Brass Tee section in the right dimensions is widely available - just not here in the States

After some research I found a supplier who would ship to the States, but it wasn't going to be cheap - and given current restrictions, it could be some time before it arrives. I'd also have the problem of making 30 carlines exactly the same.  I knew I could create a fixture/jig, but the brass would have some spring in it and even after annealing the brass, bending a tee section isn't the easiest thing in the world.

All that combined to set me thinking again - I have the 3D printer so what would I have to lose by trying a test print just to see how things turned out?  A few hours of my time and nothing else - so I gave it a try.

50 mm x 50 mm Tee section was used on the actual build which worked out to a nice 1.25 mm at 1/32 scale. That seemed just a little bit on the light side so I beefed the tee up to a whopping 1.5 mm x 1.5 mm and hoped it would not be obviously over scale.

Apologies for the quality of the photo, but you can still make out the Tee section of the carlines and the cant rail turned out way better than I anticipated.

 

 

The first print turned out to be just a little on the large side - the width was too great by about 0.5 mm but enough to cause fitting issues.

 

 

However the next couple of shots prove the concept.  The tee section doesn't appear out of scale at 1.5 mm and the skeletal structure still lets you see clearly into the interior

 

 

The only down side to doing it this way is that I have a limited print area.  The width is no problem but I can only manage about 60 - 65 mm in length with each print.  I could print in a different orientation but that would create more issues with the number of supports required and the subsequent cleanup. 

It works out that I'll need to create about 10 different prints as the carline spacing isn't constant.  That is no big deal and easy enough to account for and should only be around 2 hours CAD work

 

 

The only real issue to overcome is warping as the structure cures.  When the print first comes out of the bath, the plastic is very soft and pliable and it's very easy to remove the supports.  However, removing the supports allows the part to warp as it cures as there's nothing to fix the structure in place.  Even with the supports still attached there's a certain amount of warping so I came up with this little contraption to clamp everything in place while I placed it outside for half an hour to cure under natural UV light.

This is print number two with dimensions tweaked slightly and I reduced the number of supports to make clean up a bit easier,

 

 

Ouch!  Even after just half an hour in natural UV, the plastic became very brittle and a couple of the Tee sections broke off while I was trimming the supports.  Just that small amount of flex while the snips cut through the plastic is enough to make things fly.

 

 

But the good news is that it fits perfectly!  Creating the rest of the roof is going to be a doddle now.

 

 

The next question which arose was what color should the skeleton structure be?

Staying true to the 1:1 build, all the roof skeletal structure should really be red oxide.  Is white an option though?   The finished roof is white so I can see a case for either color.

I was a bit concerned that having a white skeleton over the car may detract from the interior as the brightness of the white may catch the eyes but a quick test shows that not to be the case (I think)

 

 

I've ordered some red oxide paint so I'll do a side by side comparison when that arrives, but I'm pleased that I now have a definite path forward to complete this build - just a few minor issues to resolve first.  Its obvious from my two prints so far that I need to remove the supports before the final cure on the plastic so I need to figure out a clamping method to fix the structure after the supports are removed and while it undergoes final curing.  I'm sure I can figure that one out easily enough.

I think I've also figured out the final display - the car itself will be on a raised plinth inside the case with the full roof in front of, and at a lower level than Pegasus.  That will allow the full chassis to be displayed without any obstruction.

 

I like it when a plan starts coming together

 

 

 

 

[Bucoops]

7 hours ago, hendie said:

 

With difficulty I would imagine.  The double seat on the other side of the wall from the dinette also has the same issue. Maybe they get a partial discount?  or extra napkins!

 

 

 

Today's update doesn't bring much in the way of yer actual physical construction process, but it does give me a massive leap forward into knowing how this is all going to come together, more of which later.

 

The dining area was fitted out. Heater box installed, curtains and pelmets installed, which leaves just the lamps, luggage racks, a mirror, table brackets, and chairs and tables. 

(The white is just the diluted PVA before drying - it disappears nicely when dried.).  Oh, I also need a few signs and some other trinkets such as passcom etc.

 

 

Paneling was finished off in the bar area. As per dining area - lamps etc still to be fitted.  In addition, in the bar area, there are two small wall mounted bench seats which I still have to make and figure out how to do the covering though that shouldn't present much of an issue.

 

 

Here's an overall view of how things stand at present. Still a few panels to fit in place, vestibules to finish off, doors between compartments to add, so still a reasonable amount of work to be done.

It's really taking shape now though.  Working at home has given me a lot of opportunity to move this thing forward.  It's amazing how much those lunch-breaks and time not spent traveling has added up.  I reckon I get about an additional 60 - 90 minutes per day on this compared to pre-CV19.

 

 

Now on to something exciting - sort of. A problem that has presented itself on and off throughout the build is how on earth am I going to display all this when it's finished?

All sorts of solutions have been proposed and explored and for every solution there was one or more downsides and I just couldn't figure it out... until last week that is!  The conversation that spouted the Carlines option. 

The more I thought about it, the more it seemed like the perfect solution.  Dare I say even... elegant ?

I can still do a full roof, and I can do carlines, cant rail and bulkheads over the car which will still allow everything to be seen. In addition the carlines will add a real element of visual interest.  I'm liking this idea more and more.

 

I then spent several hours trying to figure out just how to achieve that. Using styrene was out as the carlines consist of around 8 radii and I would never be able to get styrene to hold its shape - and I needed 30 carlines to be exactly the same.  I ruled out 3D printing as I thought it would be too fine to withstand my clumsy handling, which left brass as the only real viable option. Brass Tee section in the right dimensions is widely available - just not here in the States

After some research I found a supplier who would ship to the States, but it wasn't going to be cheap - and given current restrictions, it could be some time before it arrives. I'd also have the problem of making 30 carlines exactly the same.  I knew I could create a fixture/jig, but the brass would have some spring in it and even after annealing the brass, bending a tee section isn't the easiest thing in the world.

All that combined to set me thinking again - I have the 3D printer so what would I have to lose by trying a test print just to see how things turned out?  A few hours of my time and nothing else - so I gave it a try.

50 mm x 50 mm Tee section was used on the actual build which worked out to a nice 1.25 mm at 1/32 scale. That seemed just a little bit on the light side so I beefed the tee up to a whopping 1.5 mm x 1.5 mm and hoped it would not be obviously over scale.

Apologies for the quality of the photo, but you can still make out the Tee section of the carlines and the cant rail turned out way better than I anticipated.

 

 

The first print turned out to be just a little on the large side - the width was too great by about 0.5 mm but enough to cause fitting issues.

 

 

However the next couple of shots prove the concept.  The tee section doesn't appear out of scale at 1.5 mm and the skeletal structure still lets you see clearly into the interior

 

 

The only down side to doing it this way is that I have a limited print area.  The width is no problem but I can only manage about 60 - 65 mm in length with each print.  I could print in a different orientation but that would create more issues with the number of supports required and the subsequent cleanup. 

It works out that I'll need to create about 10 different prints as the carline spacing isn't constant.  That is no big deal and easy enough to account for and should only be around 2 hours CAD work

 

 

The only real issue to overcome is warping as the structure cures.  When the print first comes out of the bath, the plastic is very soft and pliable and it's very easy to remove the supports.  However, removing the supports allows the part to warp as it cures as there's nothing to fix the structure in place.  Even with the supports still attached there's a certain amount of warping so I came up with this little contraption to clamp everything in place while I placed it outside for half an hour to cure under natural UV light.

This is print number two with dimensions tweaked slightly and I reduced the number of supports to make clean up a bit easier,

 

 

Ouch!  Even after just half an hour in natural UV, the plastic became very brittle and a couple of the Tee sections broke off while I was trimming the supports.  Just that small amount of flex while the snips cut through the plastic is enough to make things fly.

 

 

But the good news is that it fits perfectly!  Creating the rest of the roof is going to be a doddle now.

 

 

The next question which arose was what color should the skeleton structure be?

Staying true to the 1:1 build, all the roof skeletal structure should really be red oxide.  Is white an option though?   The finished roof is white so I can see a case for either color.

I was a bit concerned that having a white skeleton over the car may detract from the interior as the brightness of the white may catch the eyes but a quick test shows that not to be the case (I think)

 

 

I've ordered some red oxide paint so I'll do a side by side comparison when that arrives, but I'm pleased that I now have a definite path forward to complete this build - just a few minor issues to resolve first.  Its obvious from my two prints so far that I need to remove the supports before the final cure on the plastic so I need to figure out a clamping method to fix the structure after the supports are removed and while it undergoes final curing.  I'm sure I can figure that one out easily enough.

I think I've also figured out the final display - the car itself will be on a raised plinth inside the case with the full roof in front of, and at a lower level than Pegasus.  That will allow the full chassis to be displayed without any obstruction.

 

I like it when a plan starts coming together

 

 

 

 

 

How about red oxide for the frame with white for the top surface to match the real roof? What colour is the ceiling - is that white too?

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Transparent carlines or even complete roof?

 

Mike.

[08-362]

Are you sure that 50mm works out at 1.25mm at 1:32 scale? To me that sounds like it scales up to 40mm.

If so, it's a good thing that you scaled up to 1.5mm. Still underscale by 0.06mm, but better than the 1.25 you planned.

I'm also on the side of red oxide. It sounds like you plan to effectively show it as a "cutaway", so it stands to reason that one would show the correct colours of the presented sections. It also rings true to the attention to detail you've shown thus far, especially where colour is concerned.

[hendie]

On 30/05/2020 at 03:11, Bucoops said:

How about red oxide for the frame with white for the top surface to match the real roof? What colour is the ceiling - is that white too?

 

I think the white is too stark over the interior and draws the eyes too much. 

 

 

On 30/05/2020 at 03:36, Enterprisingwestern said:

Transparent carlines or even complete roof?

 

Transparent carlines would be difficult and I don't think they would look good unless they were crystal clear like glass.

 

 

8 hours ago, 08-362 said:

Are you sure that 50mm works out at 1.25mm at 1:32 scale? To me that sounds like it scales up to 40mm.

If so, it's a good thing that you scaled up to 1.5mm. Still underscale by 0.06mm, but better than the 1.25 you planned.

I'm also on the side of red oxide. It sounds like you plan to effectively show it as a "cutaway", so it stands to reason that one would show the correct colours of the presented sections. It also rings true to the attention to detail you've shown thus far, especially where colour is concerned.

 

Aaaand you are absolutely correct sir!    I should have stated 40mm Tee bar -which works out at 1.25mm exactly.  Beefing it up to the 1.5mm as I did would have equated to a 50 x 50mm Tee bar which wouldn't have been out of place.  (me jaded memory got  things back to  front)

Hopefully the red oxide will blend in to the build as hoped.

 

 

I spent a few hours the other night and have constructed all the roof sections now I just need to build the support structure and slice them and then they'll be ready for print

 

 

 

 

[hendie]

 

ah... the weekend.  Storms and flash flood warnings. What more can a man ask for ? (Saved me from taking my evening constitutional in 90 degrees and ungodly humidity levels).

 

So where did this weeks little sessions get us to with Pegasus then?   All the paneling was finished last time around and now it was time to start on some finishing touches.  In the bar as mentioned previously, there are three chromed handrails to prevent inebriated passengers from falling out of the windows.  Unfortunately, when I came to drill the holes for the hand rails using the little jig that I made and surprisingly enough, hadn't lost, I came a cross a small problem.  The drills were too long to fit in the available space between the wall and the bar front.

 

 

That led to some expletives  frustration  kicking the dog   innovative thinking and resourcefulness (of a sort).  I ended up snapping a drill bit and gluing a small styrene disc to the end to use as a sort of thumb-wheel - that allowed me to get the shortened drill into position and eventually get a semblance of some holes in the woodwork. Not fun.

The hand rails were made up from brass rod and I'm using the ruler here to verify that all three handrails are on the same plane.  Everything seemed good so the hand rails are now off chromed and waiting for the clear coat to cure.

 

 

I also did a test fit of the first luggage rack.  While I think it looks okay, I also think it could do with the top rack being a tad longer and angling upwards slightly.  I've adjusted the model and the new version is ready for print.  Once I've printed those I'll do a side by side comparison to see what looks better.

 

 

Remember the printed roof structure ?  Even though it wasn't correct and one broke into many pieces, they didn't go to waste.  I repurposed this bulkhead

 

 

.. by sandwiching it between two sheets of styrene and this can now fit between the bathroom and the dinette. I'm using the other frame to ensure that I'm going to have clearance for the new roof when it's fitted

 

 

And in a surprising stroke of luck, this bulkhead allows me to terminate the cistern pipework in a believable manner.  The wooden strips shall be painted white - well, not those strips as I decided they were too thick, but their replacements will be white.

 

 

The the corridor wall got fitted and the sink added. All that's left now is a toilet roll holder, if I can remember to make one.

 

 

All of which now brings us to this stage. All the paneling is complete and really only finishing touches to be added to the interior for the main part.  We're still missing a vestibule end and a few minor items.

 

 

But before I get to that point I had to reverse a bit and flip her over. It's a long time since she's been belly up and I had a forest of cobwebs and an army of arachnids to re-home before continuing.  Quite amazing just how many cobwebs can appear over the years when you're not working in there.

Anyways, the reason for turning her over is that at some point, this is going to be fixed to some tracks which in turn will be fixed into a display case.  With surprising forethought I had actually built in a method by which this would be fixed, although in the intervening 6 years I had never got around to actually doing anything about it.  As I'm about to begin some fragile work that will be above side frame height, this was my last chance to be able to do something without having a possible wreckage on my hands.

You can just about make out a small bolt and nut in the middle of the bogies in this shot. That's what holds the bogies to the chassis - or at least it is in this build

 

 

Removing the original machine screw which was holding the bogies in place, I replaced that with a small length of thread rod.  That thread rod was then locked in place with a slim nut, and on top of that I used coupling nuts - quite appropriate really.  Coupling? Trains? oh never mind.

 

 

When the coupling nut is painted black it disappears into the background and is not really noticeable - and it allows me to thread in a bolt from under the tracks when I'm ready.

 

 

While that was going on I made some blinds - Luckily when I painted the curtains I kept the excess paint in a pipette and stopped with a cocktail stick.  I find that paint can keep for some time in that fashion.

The blinds were fashioned from some sheet styrene, some small plastic rod, and I found some brass widgits on a scrap PE fret I had lying around which make reasonable blind handles/hooks/restraining thingies.

 

 

The blinds then got fitted to the dinette/corridor wall - this is the view from the dinette side

 

 

and the view from the corridor side. They pass muster

 

 

Once Pegasus was back right side up, the Trianon bar sign (finally) got fixed in place, and in this shot I'm holding a section of cornicing along the top edge which is how it will be in it's finished state. - with the dust removed of course.

 

 

The second vestibule end got fixed in place - a job I've been avoiding for months with no reasonable excuse as to why

 

 

then just to finish up this evenings work, I dry fitted the dinette wall even tho' I know it fits and took a shot from outside. 

 

 

I just know I'm never going to be able to get all the dust out of this thing.

 

Anyways, must dash and make some dinner - hopefully some more work to show over the weekend.

 

 

 

 

[richard i]

Tremendous progress here on so many fronts. 
to think in the same time I made only the gas cylinders for my carriage build in 4 mm
richard 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

With reference to the shortened drill bits, all you had to do was ask, due to my inherent hamfistedness and the brittleness of those dental type drills, I've got plenty, all sizes available from 0.3mm upwards!

 

Mike.

[hendie]

On 06/06/2020 at 03:32, richard i said:

Tremendous progress here on so many fronts. 

 

Thanks Richard, I think this post may be even tremendouser...er  - at least longer!

 

On 06/06/2020 at 05:21, Enterprisingwestern said:

With reference to the shortened drill bits, all you had to do was ask, due to my inherent hamfistedness and the brittleness of those dental type drills, I've got plenty, all sizes available from 0.3mm upwards!

 

Thanks Mike but I could fill a gaylord with all the broken bits I have - why on earth I keep them is beyond me. They're bound to come in handy one day

 

 

Today's update may get quite long and there's a very good chance I am going to be jumping around all over the place - I've been working from one end to the other this week and also getting some of those "have to do before you can move on" jobs out of the way.

Life sort of began this week with an oopsie. Bummer.  My plan was to have one door closed and one door open on each side so that you can see into the vestibule at each end. When I picked up the door I realized I had glued the handle on the wrong side of the door - so, off it had to come - thankfully with only minimal damage.  I still have plenty of the transfers left so a small patch repair was applied.

 

 

Then I realized I had ran out of the door handles I had printed at Shapeways so long, long ago.

Now, a year ago that would have been a major issue but now, I can just throw the model into the printer and have at it and an hour later I have more handles than I know what to do with.    Honestly!   I have no idea why I printed so many when I only needed about three.  Senility eh?

 

 

Here's a quick comparison of my home brewed handles versus the Shapeways expensive option. Can you tell which is which?

Actually, the home brew is on the left. It could be argues that the home brew is lacking a smidgen of detail that the Shapeways version has, but that could well have been my printer setting - and my FEP film was getting a bit battered and needed to be changed out. But hey - if you can tell those apart from a foot away then you're a better man than I.

 

 

Handles were duly glued in place - this time double checking I was applying them to the correct side for the door opening. After that, I had to shape the interior paneling.  Surprisingly I got a decent fit at the first attempts on each doorway.

 

 

complete with rebate for the door to close up against.  Not that anybody will ever notice it.

 

 

At long last, all, yes that's right... ALL the doors are finished, complete with hardware and ready to be hung... unless I decide to add hinges.  Dammit!   Hinges - I will need to add hinges to the open doors but that shouldn't be too difficult a task.

 

 

At the newly fitted vestibule end, the fixed door got fitted.  I do like how that all looks together. Some of that hardware was a real pig to make but it does bring it to life doesn't it?

 

 

At the other end I did a quick dry fit to get a visual of how the open door scenario is going to look.  Works for me it does.  The hand rail on the right is a little bit out of alignment but those things are so fragile I don't want to force it and it can really only be seen from this angle.  I dunno, downright sloppy workmanship eh?

 

 

I guess this is really another milestone. For the first time in this build, both vestibules are fixed in place along with all the doors, or at least, two doors and two door frames.

 

 

While all that kerfuffle was going on the printer was churning nicely away in the background.  I kept feeding it until I had three prints ready.

This time I removed 90% of the supports before the final cure, leaving only those support necessary to keep the part square while it had a sunlight bath.

 

 

Things went pretty good this time with no breakage and the only damage was to the end of one of the cant rails where one of the clamps bent it over and I didn't notice until I was removing the clamps after curing. 

One thing I realized once I started assembling this was that I was being a tad dense in my design work.  I had broken the roof structure up into 60mm long sections as that's what fits nicely on the printer.

That meant that I had a lot of Tee bar sections ending in mid span and I was going to have to do a lot of joining these together to make up the full roof structure.  I'm going to print off some lengths of Tee bar and some cant rail separately, that way I can end the Tee bar at the carlines, than add a small length of tee bar between the carlines. I think that will look tidier than trying to join a bunch of T's in mid span.

 

 

Now, since I am going to have the entire structure open I am going to have to do something with the mess at each end - back when I started this whole adventure I never envisaged having no roof so I never really gave any thought to the internal at the top of the vestibule - the roof would have covered all that - not so now.

Checking back through the drawings I found that 4 lengths of steel box section was used to strengthen the vestibule area - one of the main reasons for the rebuild and so that it would comply with (then) current crash regulations.

A quick search through the brass parts drawer revealed some box section I had bought off the cuff about ten years ago - and it was the perfect dimension. Win!

I cut some short lengths, glued them in place then added a small length of plastic I Beam between them.  Okay, that's beginning to take shape now.

 

 

That was the easy part - I then spent about thee or four days messing about with no clear idea in my head as to what I was trying to achieve.  My first thoughts were to make the wooden ceiling panels and I could fit small brass light fittings to them.

 

 

Then I changed my mind.  Idea No 2 was to chuck the wood, and use plastic square rod to replicate the strengthening beams in the vestibule area.

 

 

Then I changed my mind again.

I prefer using brass if at all possible, so started all over again

 

 

At this point, rather than just looking at the drawings, I actually looked at the drawings... and it all came back to me.  A lot of design effort went into designing the vestibule ends to meet crash regs, and one of the things we had to do was really beef up those areas and we did that by adding more beams and shear plates to absorb any potential impact.

Just above the vestibule ceiling we had beams going from the front pillars, back past the end of the side frames and extending into the first compartment from each end.

Like this below.  Those beams were then connected to the side-frames by a number of shear brackets to transfer the load from the vestibule to the main side frames, as well as being welded to another set of pillars coming up through the partition separating the bathroom (and kitchen at the other end) from the vestibule

 

 

Unfortunately the brass sections I had available, though they were of the correct X-section dimensions, had very rounded edges that I didn't like (after I had started making up the frame.)

So, I changed my mind again!  

This time I ended up with this

 

 

That all looks a bit messy so I threw some primer on, and even with the primer it starts to look a lot more like it was actually engineered, and not just thrown together.

 

 

The shear brackets I mentioned above fit between the outer section and the cant rail - the small white bit that you can hardly see here below. There are three shear brackets on each beam so I have to make 12 of these little when the time comes.

It's going to be quite an interesting challenge when it comes time to fit this all together as I can't fit those shear brackets just now as they need to fit inside the cant rail, so I'll need to wait until the roof structure is in place before the fun and games begins.

 

 

At some point during all this melee the partition got fitted between the bathroom and the dinette, along with the small plain cornicing. It's amazing the difference those last strips make to the overall appearance.  The cistern got fitted.

Then I had a realization...

 

 

The bathroom ceiling can not be arched as in the rest of the car due to those honking great beams passing through. The bathroom ceiling either has to be flat - or it has a step to hide those beams from the interior.  As I left the company in the final week or two of the build, I never got to see it fully fitted out, and there are no photo's to my knowledge of the interior of the bathroom - or at least I don't frequent those particular websites that would!

That left me with a problem - the cistern pipework. That probably wouldn't exit into the bulkhead as I've shown but since it's above the ceiling it would just carry on and route to wherever it needs to go.

Then an unlikely sensible portion of my brain kicked in - the cistern was not functional. We only included it because it was on the original car and it looked cool so we had it cleaned and refitted it.

That being the case, the pipework would more than likely just disappear into the ceiling and end there as the ends would be hidden.  Though that would be accurate I think it would look untidy so I've chosen to stick with my version.  Sorted.  So while it may not be 100% accurate, it is reasonably close.

 

 

Disaster averted we moved on down the car.  Probably 4 or 5 years after it was originally made, the dinette/corridor partition was fitted and that meant that I could now fit the cornicing around the dinette. What a difference instead of hang those raw edges exposed at the ceiling level.

 

 

as a quick comparison, the bar side is still "unfinished" while the dining room side has the cornicing fitted. - Though not without some issues of my own making.

 

 

I hadn't really paid close enough attention to the height of the cover strips and they weren't all equal. Yeah I know - sloppy workmanship yet again. That meant in order to prevent the cornicing wandering all over the place I had to trim the tops of the cover strips so the alignment was reasonably horizontal. A brand new sharp chisel blade came in very handy here to remove the high offenders and even up the top level.

 

 

While I was traversing up and down the car, I remembered to fit the last three hand rails - the three chromed rails in the bar area. The drunkards can be herded safely now.

 

 

I also started on more ceiling partitions - this time the dinette/dining area partition. The hole in the center is for the ventilation - coming soon to an exciting episode near you.

 

 

There's been a bit of discussion here and there about white versus red oxide and which would be best.  My gut instinct was to stick with red oxide as that would be be more realistic and actually reflect the real build.  Well, during the week, a small jar of red oxide magically appeared.  How as it going to look?

Judge for yourself... ( beams just dry fitted)

 

 

Personally, I think it looks great.  It's not too bright and in a remarkable stroke of luck, it does seem to go with the overall color scheme, blending in very nicely.

So while the airbrush was fired up I slapped some paint on a couple of roof structure segments.

I'm liking this red oxide finish. - it really looks the part.

 

 

The big question though is:  How does it affect the overall visual when trying to look at the interior?

As far as I can tell, it's gong to be absolutely fine.  This shot is digitally untouched and all the color hues are very similar yet you can still clearly see inside without being distracted by the framework.

 

 

I did adjust brightness and contrast on this one, but threw a table in there just to see what the effect was like.

I firmly believe that once the tables and chairs and other assorted gubbinses (i.e. lamps) are in place, you will hardly notice the roof structure.

 

 

wow. This has been a bit of a mammoth post so I guess it's time to leave and get some more coffee.

I'll leave you with a couple of parting shots of where we stand now

 

 

I find this shot strangely comforting

 

 

okay. I'm finished - yes really. I am.  The printer is finishing up another print and I want to see how it turned out since I went a bit crazy with the exposure times for a small experiment.

 

toodle pip chaps

 

 

 

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

10 hours ago, hendie said:

  I have no idea why I printed so many when I only needed about three.  Senility eh?

 

For the next coach?

 

Mike.

[KeithHC]

13 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

For the next coach?

 

Mike.

You got there before me Mike. Mind you it has taken that long to read through the post and stare in amazement at the work that is going into this build.

 

Keith 

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 minutes ago, KeithHC said:

You got there before me Mike. Mind you it has taken that long to read through the post and stare in amazement at the work that is going into this build.

 

Keith 

 

I've been religiously keeping up, I don't want Mr Hendie to think he can be a slacker!!

 

Mike.

[sir douglas]

12 hours ago, hendie said:

 

Thanks Mike but I could fill a gaylord with all the broken bits I have

 

 

sorry a what?

[KeithHC]

42 minutes ago, sir douglas said:

 

sorry a what?

Buford T Justices brother................

 

Keith

[Steamport Southport]

8 hours ago, sir douglas said:

 

sorry a what?

 

A type of container used for storage. A common term before it fell out of use due to political correctness.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulk_box

 

The name came from the manufacturers.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaylord_Container_Corporation

 

 

 

Jason

[Bucoops]

Wonder if there's any link to the containers and Gaylord Palms resort in Florida?

 

Maybe you drive in, and get shipped out in a box?

[hendie]

12 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

For the next coach?

 

Sorry Mike - I don't think I have enough years left in me to try this again

 

11 hours ago, KeithHC said:

You got there before me Mike. Mind you it has taken that long to read through the post and stare in amazement at the work that is going into this build.

 

Thanks Keith - the problem is once you add a certain level of detail, you have no option but to continue the same level of detail everywhere else.  I think I shot myself in the foot there.

 

11 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I've been religiously keeping up, I don't want Mr Hendie to think he can be a slacker!!

 

Thanks Mike - I  wish I could keep up at times.  I feel sometimes that I need a little break from this, but it's so close to finishing I don't want to take a break in case it turns into one of those long ones that have interrupted this build at times

 

10 hours ago, sir douglas said:

sorry a what?

 

y'mean you don't know?

 

10 hours ago, KeithHC said:

Buford T Justices brother................

 

Keith

 

nope, no bananas there

 

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

A type of container used for storage. A common term before it fell out of use due to political correctness.

 

You nailed it Jason - it may have fallen out of use in the UK but here in the US it's still a common term. It's generically used for any pallet box/bin

 

2 hours ago, Bucoops said:

Wonder if there's any link to the containers and Gaylord Palms resort in Florida?

 

Maybe you drive in, and get shipped out in a box?

 

containers yes, resorts no, though I feel sometimes that it'd be better if someone just shoved me in a box and locked the lid

 

 

Work continues today but nothing much to show - just loads of those really time consuming little details that never end up being seen, but need done nonetheless.  I have a couple of days vacation this week so hoping to make some major progress  - we'll see

 

 

[sir douglas]

i was only 8 years old when the company closed in 2002 so im not surprised ive not heard of it

[hendie]

 

I found some spare time on Sunday to bunker down in the basement for a few hours and get some more done.  I was looking forward to begin fitting at least some of the roof structure.  A last look over before I began and I realized that I hadn't yet fitted the cover strips between the walls and the ceiling partition.  There should be nice white strips going around the top edge of the bathroom here.

 

 

I also spotted that as currently built, there were going to be elements of bare wood showing as well - seen here on the rear face of the dinette panel.  The cant rail is outboard of those panels and while it hides them to some extent it doesn't hide them completely.  This was something I never planned for as originally there was going to be a roof on this and therefore I never really gave it much thought... until now.

I quickly made up some cover strips for the bathroom and then carefully, very carefully painted the top edge and rear of all the wood panels with stain.

 

 

It must have been one of those days for remembering things - just as I was about to start my new roofing career, I remembered the toilet roll!

I must have planned ahead for this at some point because as I ratched about in my Pegasus' boxes I came across one solitary "thingy" that I had turned on the lathe - I had even drilled a hole in it. Another ratch around found a small stainless steel rivet which worked to hang the toilet roll on. The toilet roll was simply a piece of styrene rod with a hole drilled though and then painted white.  Looks convincing enough though.

 

 

Then fitted. Apologies for photo quality but the camera just didn't want to focus here. At least you can see it's there.

 

 

A job I was quite concerned about was the fitting of the three chromed rails in the bar.  Fitting them was the easy part, but getting all three aligned was more of an issue.  Get that wrong and it was going to look like crap from outside - and I couldn't see that side as I was fitting them.  I finally got to turn Pegasus around and was pleased to find that the alignment seemed pretty good from outside. Not perfect, but certainly passable.

 

 

After all that it was time to begin fitting the roof structure.  First on were the shear beams from vestibule rearwards using CA and TET. 

I had a little cutting and shutting to do with the first carline section - I found the ceiling partition was just a tad too tall, and interfered with the longitudinal Tee section forcing it to turn skywards.  That was easily rectified by filing two recesses for the Tee section to sit into. 

I designed the carline sections with a rectangular section just below, and offset from, the cant rail.  I have a 2 mm gap between the skin of the side frame and the rear face of the paneling, and that rectangular section slips in there nicely with the cant rail resting directly on top of the side frame. The carline section was glued in using GS-Hypo allowing me some time to gently position the carline section in place.

 

 

Next up were the formers that shaped the compound curves of the roof ends.  This wasn't an easy task - 1.5 mm x 1.5 mm Tee section in very brittle plastic.  It was swipe gently with the file, test fit and repeat numerous times.  To be effective and not look out of place, the former must lie at the same height and level with the top of the carlines, and span between the end carline and the skin at the vestibule end.

This is the first one glued in place

 

 

Finally, all four formers done and in place.  The two in the center run parallel with the longitudinal axis of the car, but the two formers outboard of them are slightly canted and angled in towards the two box sections either side of the gangway. From some angles they can look a bit weird, but that was the way we designed it - so that's the way it is.

 

 

Convincing, no?

 

 

Then a shot from the side just to check levels and squareness etc of the structures.  I'm happy with that.

 

 

Next on the never ending list of things to do during Covid was to start adding the shear brackets and shear plates.  The three shear brackets that are fitted along the length of the outboard beam were straightforward, but there's also a vertical shear plate that connects inboard of that outer beam to the roof skin.  That was a little more challenging.

It was a case of trim a bit, try a bit to get the vertical portion of the shear plate - the awkward part of this operation was that there is a flange on top of that vertical shear plate and that flange is bent over and runs at the same angle as the roof... along a curve!.

To accomplish that I cut a wide strip and glued it long the straight top edge of the the shear plate. I held it at an appropriate angle while the TET dried. Then glued around the curve of the shear plate.   I ended up with a really wonky looking "T" shaped thing.   Once the TET had dried I trimmed it back with a sharp blade, then finished off with a sanding stick.

 

 

Another one of those to make then I get to do this all over again at the other end... then figure out how to do the soft furnishings as they need to go in before I can finish the roof structure.  

 

 

[hendie]

 

 

It's really getting close now. Unfortunately that means that I'm now down to adding the finer details - all of which seem to take an inordinate amount of time to accomplish.  Take this ceiling partition for instance.

First of all, make the partition, file/sand it to shape. File notches for the Tee section to pass through. Cut holes for the vents etc. Oh - paint the vents too.  They have to be painted separately because in behind the vent is some brass mesh, so I painted the recess black to make the brass stand out. - Then fit the brass, then finally, fit the vent.

Can you even see the brass in there?

 

 

I made things a bit difficult for myself by following the 1:1 in exact scale dimensions here.  That meant that the vent is just under 1 mm bigger than the hole it fits over - making it a real pits to align properly.  If I had thought ahead, I could have made a slightly bigger flange on the vent and no-one would be any the wiser.  

 

The first vestibule end was finished off. Formers in place and shear plates and shear brackets added. To say I'm a bit chuffed with this would be an understatement.

 

 

I fixed the skewy former as well - looking much better now.

 

 

Back up the other end, the first of the structure got fitted, and I finished off the mahogany trim strips in the corridor

 

 

Ceiling trim strips got fitted in the bar area as well.

 

 

And that pretty much finished off the bar fittings - all that was left was to add the two bench seats between the windows.  I wasn't sure what color the seats were but managed to find one shot on t'interweb that showed they were a vague sort of purple color with a very subtle pattern. I just went for plain color here but I think it blends in nicely. Nothing too obtrusive.

 

 

Moving into the dining area, the new luggage racks got fitted (to one side so far).  The new racks look much better.  I elongated the top shelf by about 1.5 mm and added a slight rake upwards - this has made all the difference to the appearance.

 

 

Very pleased with those.

 

 

I threw some roof sections in place just to see what the overall effect would be. I think it's going to be stunning when finished.  I just need to keep the momentum going.

 

 

I tried to get a shot with the ceiling partition and vent in place but the camera wasn't happy focusing to that depth.

 

 

The overall state of play at this afternoons break was this

 

 

 

I've even started putting some thought towards the separate roof.  I printed off some fixtures that I think will help a lot with the roof.  I'll be using 6 mm diameter brass rod to keep all the sections aligned

 

 

And for the roof itself I think I am going to go with bass wood strips - easy to cut and sand.  This is just early days though and really just testing the concept out.

 

 

I find it hard to believe that after so long the end is almost in sight.  The one main hurdle I still have left is the soft furnishings - the chairs!  They have rather a complex leaf pattern on the fabric which caused me some sleepless nights in the past, but I think I now have a solution so stay tuned folks.

 

I really must put some more time into designing the display case as I'll need to think about getting one made very soon. Eek!

 

 

 

[Mark]

9 hours ago, hendie said:

 

 

It's really getting close now. Unfortunately that means that I'm now down to adding the finer details - all of which seem to take an inordinate amount of time to accomplish.  Take this ceiling partition for instance.

First of all, make the partition, file/sand it to shape. File notches for the Tee section to pass through. Cut holes for the vents etc. Oh - paint the vents too.  They have to be painted separately because in behind the vent is some brass mesh, so I painted the recess black to make the brass stand out. - Then fit the brass, then finally, fit the vent.

Can you even see the brass in there?

 

 

I made things a bit difficult for myself by following the 1:1 in exact scale dimensions here.  That meant that the vent is just under 1 mm bigger than the hole it fits over - making it a real pits to align properly.  If I had thought ahead, I could have made a slightly bigger flange on the vent and no-one would be any the wiser.  

 

The first vestibule end was finished off. Formers in place and shear plates and shear brackets added. To say I'm a bit chuffed with this would be an understatement.

 

 

I fixed the skewy former as well - looking much better now.

 

 

Back up the other end, the first of the structure got fitted, and I finished off the mahogany trim strips in the corridor

 

 

Ceiling trim strips got fitted in the bar area as well.

 

 

And that pretty much finished off the bar fittings - all that was left was to add the two bench seats between the windows.  I wasn't sure what color the seats were but managed to find one shot on t'interweb that showed they were a vague sort of purple color with a very subtle pattern. I just went for plain color here but I think it blends in nicely. Nothing too obtrusive.

 

 

Moving into the dining area, the new luggage racks got fitted (to one side so far).  The new racks look much better.  I elongated the top shelf by about 1.5 mm and added a slight rake upwards - this has made all the difference to the appearance.

 

 

Very pleased with those.

 

 

I threw some roof sections in place just to see what the overall effect would be. I think it's going to be stunning when finished.  I just need to keep the momentum going.

 

 

I tried to get a shot with the ceiling partition and vent in place but the camera wasn't happy focusing to that depth.

 

 

The overall state of play at this afternoons break was this

 

 

 

I've even started putting some thought towards the separate roof.  I printed off some fixtures that I think will help a lot with the roof.  I'll be using 6 mm diameter brass rod to keep all the sections aligned

 

 

And for the roof itself I think I am going to go with bass wood strips - easy to cut and sand.  This is just early days though and really just testing the concept out.

 

 

I find it hard to believe that after so long the end is almost in sight.  The one main hurdle I still have left is the soft furnishings - the chairs!  They have rather a complex leaf pattern on the fabric which caused me some sleepless nights in the past, but I think I now have a solution so stay tuned folks.

 

I really must put some more time into designing the display case as I'll need to think about getting one made very soon. Eek!

 

 

 

Are you doing the axle boxes?

 

Mark

[hendie]

5 hours ago, Mark said:

Are you doing the axle boxes?

 

Like these ?    The axles boxes have been sitting in a container for years. 

That was one of those easy peasy jobs that was so easy I left them to concentrate on other items.

I'll get around to it as the remaining jobs get knocked off the list