1951 Pullman Scratchbuild in 1/32

[ikcdab]

This really is the most excellent model. I have followed it for several years with a huge amount of admiration. 

I think that with such a first-rate model,  the track should match it with prototypical chairs and keys etc.

For ballast, I guess O gauge granite chips would work fine.

[Ian Major]

Hendie,

 

I agree with Ian. 

 

I notice on the left of your photo you have some spare sleepers. I think I would use them to experiment. If it looked fine and to your taste then go with it. As you say you don't want to glue ballast on to your base only to find that you didn't like it.

 

Everyone I know who do ballasting use diluted PVA on to the ballast after it is brushed between the sleepers. Something to watch here is that some ballast chippings go green if they react with the PVA. 

 

The watchword is "experiment" on a test piece - something you are very good at doing.

 

Ian. 

[jcm@gwr]

1 hour ago, Ian Major said:

Hendie,

 

I agree with Ian. 

 

I notice on the left of your photo you have some spare sleepers. I think I would use them to experiment. If it looked fine and to your taste then go with it. As you say you don't want to glue ballast on to your base only to find that you didn't like it.

 

Everyone I know who do ballasting use diluted PVA on to the ballast after it is brushed between the sleepers. Something to watch here is that some ballast chippings go green if they react with the PVA. 

 

The watchword is "experiment" on a test piece - something you are very good at doing.

 

Ian. 

 

I think the general consensus was, that it was the w/up liquid (used to help the PVA flow)

that was the cause of the 'green-ness', it tended not to happen if meths was used instead.

[hendie]

 

On 06/10/2020 at 12:23, ikcdab said:

This really is the most excellent model. I have followed it for several years with a huge amount of admiration. 

I think that with such a first-rate model,  the track should match it with prototypical chairs and keys etc.

For ballast, I guess O gauge granite chips would work fine.

 

thanks for the kind words ikcdab.  

 

 

On 06/10/2020 at 13:00, Ian Major said:

Hendie,

 

I agree with Ian. 

 

I notice on the left of your photo you have some spare sleepers. I think I would use them to experiment. If it looked fine and to your taste then go with it. As you say you don't want to glue ballast on to your base only to find that you didn't like it.

 

Everyone I know who do ballasting use diluted PVA on to the ballast after it is brushed between the sleepers. Something to watch here is that some ballast chippings go green if they react with the PVA. 

 

The watchword is "experiment" on a test piece - something you are very good at doing.

 

Ian. 

 

I have some poultry grit on order so we'll see how my experimentation works out

 

On 06/10/2020 at 14:22, jcm@gwr said:

 

I think the general consensus was, that it was the w/up liquid (used to help the PVA flow)

that was the cause of the 'green-ness', it tended not to happen if meths was used instead.

 

So diluted PVA (with water) would work?

 

 

 

I have been printing the last pieces of structure over the last few days but encountered some issues.  These are the end caps for the tracks...

 

 

and as you can see clearly - print failures.  Temperatures have dropped drastically over the last couple of weeks and the basement temperature is at the bottom end of the recommended printing range, but I'm not certain that was the root cause, especially as I have printed successfully at lower temperatures before.

The prints failed because the supports separated from the structure.  I believe that was because the walls in those areas are relatively thick.

I'm using a new version of Chitubox and went with their default auto support feature for these prints.

In the shot below, another print failure on the left - so went back and added more supports to the bottom end, and this time it printed successfully.

 

 

These are the additional parts need for the structure.  The steampunk arches printed successfully as did the girder sections, but the two arc thingies were another print failure.  There should have been a hook feature on each end of the arc. However, the prints have failed in such a manner that I may be able to add the hook from styrene sheet.  If that doesn't work, I know what the problem was and can simply reprint them

 

 

I still get amazed by the level of detail every time I print something.  The rivets and joint plates on these are only 0.3 mm thick.

 

 

but what will it look like assembled?  Well, your wait is over - it's going to look like this

 

 

Parts are just resting against each other here and I used a scrap piece of brass rod just to see how it's going to look.

 

 

The arc support is going to be fitted onto the end of a rod, and that is what the roof will be sitting on, which will allow me to rotate the roof to the best vantage point.

 

 

it kind of sucks as I have a pest control guy in today as I got a hornet infestation in the basement in the last week so I have to stay out of the area while his poisons do their work - and I took a days vacation today too!  Arghhhh.

I had lots of things planned, but they're going to be delayed until I can get into the basement again without being poisoned.

 

 

[Ian Major]

Hendie,

 

Those supports deserve to be the centre of a model in their own right. I am not sure what though - Steam Punk indeed!

 

Ian.

[PaulCheffus]

Hi

 

The use of washing up liquid in the PVA water mix was to break the surface tension. Wetting agent as used for photography has the same effect and doesn’t turn the ballast green.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[jcm@gwr]

You always dilute PVA with water, but you use w/up liquid as a 'water wetter',

meths (wood alcohol) is a good replacement 

[hendie]

 

On 08/10/2020 at 13:14, Ian Major said:

Hendie,

Those supports deserve to be the centre of a model in their own right. I am not sure what though - Steam Punk indeed!

Ian.

 

Thanks Ian - I'm very pleased with how they're turning out

 

On 08/10/2020 at 13:28, PaulCheffus said:

Hi

The use of washing up liquid in the PVA water mix was to break the surface tension. Wetting agent as used for photography has the same effect and doesn’t turn the ballast green.

Cheers

Paul

 

thanks Paul

 

On 08/10/2020 at 13:28, jcm@gwr said:

You always dilute PVA with water, but you use w/up liquid as a 'water wetter',

meths (wood alcohol) is a good replacement 

 

I'll see what I can dig up. I'm sure I have something around that will do.

 

Now, on to this weeks adventures

 

Chicken grit on the left.   Too pink and too large. The grit was intended for adult birds so I got another bag, this time intended for starter birds, and to be honest there wasn't much difference in size... and still too pink.

On the right, some other grit I found. I can't remember what exactly.  The color is perfect, but the grit size is too small.  I could have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for those pesky... wait. Wrong thread.  The grit has some extra chemicals in it  and is very damp.

I decided against using it as I am not sure how it will react with the glue etc. over the long term.

 

 

I've been reading up on how the rail modelers fix the ballast and that has me a bit worried too. It seems that a mix of PVA/Water/IPA is used.  Makes sense - but typically that is used to fix the ballast to a porous surface of some description.

I have a very shiny, very hard, very non-porous acrylic base.  I have a feeling that over time the PVA will shrink slightly and start peeling back at the edges. I am definitely not going to be sanding the surface of the acrylic base as there's no going back after that. 

More thought required on that front, before I commit to potentially ruining the base.

 

On the steampunk front, the roof support structures were assembled. I used the liquid resin and some free daylight to join the upper and lower structure, and CA gel to secure the angled support arm.

 

 

The roof cradles were tidied up.  Since I had never fully 3D modeled the roof, and it was hand made anyway, I had to guess at the finished dimensions of the cradle to hold it.

It turns out I wasn't too far off but they did require a certain amount of work before they would fit.

Luckily I had made them beefy enough that I could file quite a bit away and still have them strong enough to hold the roof. 

 

 

The biggest issue was that I hadn't accounted for the rain guides and the end of the roof.  They were 1 mm high and that 1 mm caused a lot of additional work to overcome.

Once done though, the cradles fit nicely.

 

 

I also made these end covers for the tracks.  It didn't seem right just to have the ends of the rails sitting there in the open.

 

 

Once painted up they're quite unobtrusive

 

 

Now for the good part.  The support structures got painted - and I used up my very last supply of now discontinued Grimy Black Flat, which has been one of my favorite paints over the last few years. I don't know what I am going to do without it.

I've given the base the first coat of "concrete"

 

 

When complete it's going to be somewhere in this location, give or take.

 

 

I'm very pleased with the supports. I don't think they look out of place and they look interesting without taking over the view.  I will admit to a certain degree of panic towards the end when I knew I had to create a support structure but went through 3 or 4 designs - none of which I was happy with.  Stumbling across this idea was fortuitous indeed.

 

 

Aside from the ballast question, the biggest issue I face now is:  The support structure is black - should the cradle also be black?  It's going to be pretty stark against the white roof. Or should I paint the cradle white to blend in with the roof?  But I'm not sure a white cradle and a black support would look any good. Black it may have to be.

 

 

 

 

 

[simonmcp]

Regarding the ballast, you could do what is done on some bridges and put in a trough , if you have a few millimetres height spare, and then the ballast would not touch the base. I realise the shape might be complex.

You'd have to stop the ballast from going down the fixing holes but that's easily solvable.

[Ian Major]

Hendie,

 

Some mighty fine work shown in your photos. The track end caps are spot on. 

 

The colour of the roof cradles is a question. If they are the same or similar colour to the roof it may give an impression that they are part of the roof. Black is a big stark. A medium grey or some similar non descript colour may do the trick. 

 

Your concerns about PVA glue ageing and allowing any ballast to fall away is a genuine concern. Perhaps the ballast is not such a good idea - even though it was my not so good idea! Worth a few more experiments though.

 

Ian.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Ian Major

[hendie]

On 12/10/2020 at 02:31, simonmcp said:

Regarding the ballast, you could do what is done on some bridges and put in a trough , if you have a few millimetres height spare, and then the ballast would not touch the base. I realise the shape might be complex.

 

Thanks Simon.  After much consideration I believe I am going to forego the ballast. Not 100% sure yet, but almost

 

On 12/10/2020 at 02:36, Ian Major said:

Your concerns about PVA glue ageing and allowing any ballast to fall away is a genuine concern. Perhaps the ballast is not such a good idea - even though it was my not so good idea!

 

On the contrary Ian, it was a great idea. Its just in this case that I think its going to be impractical - mainly due to space limitations with everything else that's going on in the build.

 

 

 

A funny old day today was. It threw up a few surprises and almost had me reaching for the tranquilizers.

First item on the agenda was to mark out the base.

The white paper taped in place is my surrogate mirror. I wanted to make sure I didn't end up with the supports fixed in place then the mirror wouldn't fit did I?  That would have been stoopid.

It was a case of measure everything three times, then measure it another three, then check those dimensions at the opposite end to make sure I had everything symmetrical.  Then I had to drill 4 holes through the upper and lower surfaces of the acrylic base.  Drilling that stuff is no fun. Not at all.

 

 

I had modeled a couple of holes in the base of the support structure as fixing points. The first attempt was using self tappers, but the deep thread on those started splitting the resin as it is so brittle. Next up was machine screws. Those managed to cut their own threads into the resin but stripped the resin easily when tightening the screws. Okay then what's next?

More machine screws but this time, I cut off their heads and epoxied the threaded rod into the support structures

 

 

That way, I could then bolt the things in from below.  The old step drills came in handy again to open the holes out underneath and I managed to get a hole large enough to fit a socket through, making fixing them in place a breeze.  I was careful not to tighten the nuts too much in case I puled the epoxy out of the base - just snug enough so that nothing moved, then added a lock nut for security.

 

 

Both support structures now in place, it was time to attempt hoisting the roof into place.

That was a lot easier to  write than it was to accomplish since I only have two hands, and found during this exercise that I needed about 6 hands to do the job.  There was lots of balancing, cursing, sweating, more cursing and the greatest fear I have ever encountered while building a model. It scared the crappola out of me to be honest.  One false move, one little slip, or something giving way and I could have two years of repair work ahead of me to finish this build (again)!

 

 

The gods were smiling, well, maybe not quite smiling - I think they had more of a wry grin on their faces today.

I got everything in place and realized... Gadzooks! This is not going to work!

All these months I've been handling this roof, it felt very light. Today it felt very, very heavy, and very dangerous

I present the evidence below.  Ignore the fact the roof is the wrong way up and take a look at the overall arrangement. Notice anything?

 

 

There's a bit of a bend isn't there?  A hell of a bend in fact.

At this point a mild panic set in. - All this design and effort and the darned thing isn't going to work.

The moment arm on that cantilever is too long and creating the bend in the brass tube. First thought... okay, I can replace that with brass rod.

However, I'm now startling to question the support structure.  The moment introduced by that cantilever is placing a lot of stress on the printed parts, particularly the angled support. The moment is also trying to tip the vertical supports in towards the center. Replacing the bras tube with rod isn't going to fix that - if anything, the rigidity of the rod is going to place yet more stress on the support structure.  Okay, it's holding now, but the printed resin is very brittle and to be honest I have no idea how strong it really is or how long it could last in that state before a catastrophic failure.  And that catastrophic failure could be, well, catastrophic!

It was coffee time.

 

 

I ran through a bunch of ideas with input from a few folks before hitting on an idea, that while not ideal, would eliminate the danger of the thing crumbling before my very eyes, and me lying crying on the floor.

A quick trip to the local hardware store found the supplies I needed.  Of course, being in the US all the supplies were in units of barleycorns inches. I had designed the structure to take a 3 mm diameter tube/rod, and all I could get here was 1/8", and as we all know - 1/8" is not 3 mm, it's 3 point freaking 2 mm.

That 0.2 mm took a lot of work let me tell you, along with a boatload more apprehension and fear thrown in for good measure.  First I had to open out the holes little by little (yes, I was too darned lazy to take the structure off the base again), before finally filing the holes so I had a nice clip fit with the 1/8" rod

 

 

and here's my (bodged) fix. One single long rod instead of two shorter rods.

Having one continuous rod eliminates 95% of the moment arm that was acting on each end structure.  There is still a small, though much reduced moment acting on the angled support arms due to the slight bend in the rod, but the majority of the weight of the roof will now for the most part act down through the vertical structures where they are at their strongest

 

 

It's not ideal I know.  Okay, it is far from ideal as I now have a humongous rod traveling all the way down the length of the roof, obscuring some of that detail that I spent so much time on all those years ago.

However, I'd much rather that detail be partially obscured than end up in pieces on the floor at some future point.

Now the question is did it actually work?

 

Have a guess...

 

 

In the interest of full disclosure I made an oopsie.  But the oopsie turned out to be rather beneficial - most unlike things for me!

The oopsie was in those measurements that I made earlier.  Despite measuring in triplicate triple times, and then double checking that, I had completely ignored the roof cradles in all my measurements. Doofus!

I had intended the roof to be approximately 5 mm or thereabouts clear of the car, where now, due to my utter ineptitude, the roof cradle rests ever so gently on the side-frame, holding the roof at an almost perfect viewing angle.

 

 

A clearer shot of the interference here.

 

 

I really couldn't have planned it better. Lucky or what!

With all that excitement it was time to lay down for a rest, so to finish the day off, I blackened the brass rod and gave it a shine with cherry blossom's finest

 

 

I also bought some 1/8" steel rod and may substitute the brass with that as it has less tendency to bend, though I feel pretty confident the entire structure is now safe enough.

Now that problem has been solved... those gears are whirring again, and I can now think of a way to use the same principles and have the roof un-obscured.

That would all depend on me being able to find the right brass profiles in the right lengths though and my old supply house has shut down and I don't think those brass profiles are available any longer.  To be honest though - I need to finish this and put it to bed soon.  I may revisit the roof supports at a future date

 

mirror and plaque next

 

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

With regard to the ballast, presuming this will be a stationary display model, if you decide to have some, does it need to be permanently glued down, it ain't going nowhere?

 

Mike.

[KeithHC]

With regard to the moment. Could you fit in a counter weight at the end of the rod.

 

Keith

[jcm@gwr]

49 minutes ago, KeithHC said:

With regard to the moment. Could you fit in a counter weight at the end of the rod.

 

Keith

 

Those counter-weights could double up as the knobs to rotate the roof.

[Ian Major]

Hendie,

 

That is looking fabulous with the roof posed above the body.

 

BTW. Have a look at this article on the BBC website. The fifth photo down should be of interest to you.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-54540298 

 

Ian.

[Bucoops]

1 hour ago, Ian Major said:

Hendie,

 

That is looking fabulous with the roof posed above the body.

 

BTW. Have a look at this article on the BBC website. The fifth photo down should be of interest to you.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-54540298 

 

Ian.

 

I read that earlier and wondered if it was THE coach!

[hendie]

On 13/10/2020 at 20:27, Enterprisingwestern said:

With regard to the ballast, presuming this will be a stationary display model, if you decide to have some, does it need to be permanently glued down, it ain't going nowhere?

Mike.

 

I've given up on the ballast now Mike.  More arrived this week and it was the wrong scale.  More importantly I really don't think there's any room and it would look forced

 

On 14/10/2020 at 03:26, KeithHC said:

With regard to the moment. Could you fit in a counter weight at the end of the rod.

Keith

 

On 14/10/2020 at 04:16, jcm@gwr said:

Those counter-weights could double up as the knobs to rotate the roof.

 

Keith, JCM, - nice idea but I'd need a really heavy counterweight with such a short moment available on the other side

 

On 15/10/2020 at 06:11, Ian Major said:

Hendie,

That is looking fabulous with the roof posed above the body.

BTW. Have a look at this article on the BBC website. The fifth photo down should be of interest to you.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-54540298 

Ian.

 

Thanks Ian, what a great find!  Thanks for sharing - it brought back some memories

 

On 15/10/2020 at 07:35, Bucoops said:

I read that earlier and wondered if it was THE coach!

 

yep Bucoops, it was indeed THE coach

 

 

The last piece of the jigsaw puzzle arrived during the week.

 

 

What it is you may well ask?  

 

Okay then. It's a mirror. A real glass one, not one of those cheap acrylic plasticky ones.

 

 

Bloomin' expensive it was too.  I searched for days trying to find something cheaper, but twas not to be.  In the end, I bit the bullet and just bought it. It should show up the underside of the roof nicely with the added bonus that you can actually see some of the chassis work too.

It's just resting in place at the moment.  This weekend should see it all finished.

I also bought a plaque.  I'm not sure if I like the wording but couldn't think of anything else.

 

 

I also printed off a base for the plaque - which will be sprayed black in due course - if I decide to use it.  I may just lay the plaque flat on the case.  

 

 

 

Tantalizingly close to the finish line now. I can almost taste the axle grease.

 

 

 

[Ian Major]

6 hours ago, hendie said:

Tantalizingly close to the finish line now. I can almost taste the axle grease.

 

Boo. Hiss.

 

(Only joking!)

 

That mirror is perfect for the job though judging by Marge's eyes she is saying  "HOW MUCH?"     

 

Ian.

[hendie]

On 24/10/2020 at 15:36, Ian Major said:

 

Boo. Hiss.

 

(Only joking!)

 

That mirror is perfect for the job though judging by Marge's eyes she is saying  "HOW MUCH?"     

 

Ian.

 

 

Thanks Ian.    You can hold off on the boo hiss for a few weeks yet... read on...

 

 

A few quick jobs to finish off.

The mirror got glued in place

 

 

and a quick peek of the underside

 

 

The track end caps got glued in place

 

 

Everything got cleaned up and dusted off as best I could

 

 

The roof was finally lifted into place

 

 

quick view from the front

 

 

Then I finally pulled the display cover out of its packaging

 

 

Look mom!   no train!

for the first time in 6 years, there is no Pullman car on my bench - it's a strange feeling

 

 

but not before I had painted up the plinth and added the plaque

 

 

now follows a bunch of gratuitous shots, just because I took 'em...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Officially finished.

 

But...

 

I have decided that I really do not like the rod going full length of the roof as I feel it really detracts from the roof detail when viewed in the mirror. Therefore, I am going to attempt to make the support gantries in brass which will provide much stronger supports and I should be able to support the roof with a short cantilever.  Would you believe I cannot source brass H beam here in the US?  I'm going to have to order a bunch of material from the UK so it's going to take a few weeks for that to arrive.  That will give me a nice little break form this, and hopefully the brass gantries will not take to long.  They won't be exactly the same as the 3d printed ones but will be as close as I can get them given the tools I have .

 

but I'm still calling it finished!

 

back in a few weeks...

 

 

[Ian Major]

Hendie, very nice.  Nowt wrong with having a few gratuitous shots.

 

Did I spot the wings of a British bi-plane on your cleared workbench?

 

Ian.

[hendie]

19 minutes ago, Ian Major said:

Hendie, very nice.  Nowt wrong with having a few gratuitous shots.

 

Did I spot the wings of a British bi-plane on your cleared workbench?

 

Ian.

 

Well spotted Ian.  I'm working on a Bristol F2b from 1920, and a Hawker Audax from around 1930, both 28 Sqn aircraft

[Enterprisingwestern]

16 hours ago, hendie said:

 

 

Thanks Ian.    You can hold off on the boo hiss for a few weeks yet... read on...

 

 

A few quick jobs to finish off.

The mirror got glued in place

 

 

and a quick peek of the underside

 

 

The track end caps got glued in place

 

 

Everything got cleaned up and dusted off as best I could

 

 

The roof was finally lifted into place

 

 

quick view from the front

 

 

Then I finally pulled the display cover out of its packaging

 

 

Look mom!   no train!

for the first time in 6 years, there is no Pullman car on my bench - it's a strange feeling

 

 

but not before I had painted up the plinth and added the plaque

 

 

now follows a bunch of gratuitous shots, just because I took 'em...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Officially finished.

 

But...

 

I have decided that I really do not like the rod going full length of the roof as I feel it really detracts from the roof detail when viewed in the mirror. Therefore, I am going to attempt to make the support gantries in brass which will provide much stronger supports and I should be able to support the roof with a short cantilever.  Would you believe I cannot source brass H beam here in the US?  I'm going to have to order a bunch of material from the UK so it's going to take a few weeks for that to arrive.  That will give me a nice little break form this, and hopefully the brass gantries will not take to long.  They won't be exactly the same as the 3d printed ones but will be as close as I can get them given the tools I have .

 

but I'm still calling it finished!

 

back in a few weeks...

 

 

 

I must admit that I had my heart in my mouth hoping picture 8 wasn't captioned "Then I knocked it off the workbench with my elbow"!

 

Mike.

[Nova Scotian]

I miss this thread. I think of it occasionally.

 

Wishing the OP all the best, and hoping they return with another railway build soon.

[Ian Major]

I fear that this project will remain Hendie's sole excursion into the world of model railways. His current model aircraft work can be seen on BRITMODELLER at  https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/forum/19-aircraft-modelling/ under the same handle "HENDIE". The standard of work remains very high.

 

Ian.

[hendie]

On 21/05/2021 at 18:29, Nova Scotian said:

Wishing the OP all the best, and hoping they return with another railway build soon.

 

Thanks NS.  Unfortunately I am one of those modelers who has to have a "connection" to the subject matter, otherwise I find that my heart just isn't in it, and Pegasus was my only foray into the rail industry during my professional career.  It was that connection that kept me working on it for the 6 years it took to bring to fruition.

 

On 22/05/2021 at 07:34, Ian Major said:

I fear that this project will remain Hendie's sole excursion into the world of model railways.

 

Sadly, Ian, I fear you are correct.   I was also involved in designing an observation car for some client whom I can no longer remember, but it never got past the concept stage so there were no drawings produced.  If I ever feel the urge to model rail stock again, that could be a potential subject.

 

 

 

 

I don't want to say too much at this time, but there has been a (very surprising) further development in the story of this build.  If things go according to plan, there may be a further update in the not too distant future... fingers crossed.  I shall let you all know if it all pans out (or not)