Buckingham West

[Richard Mawer]

Hi Rich, some good looking stock up there, and some superb carpentry as well.

Thanks Andy. It's hardly superb carpentry, but its ok when out of sight.

[Richard Mawer]

OVERNIGHT ENGINEERING

 

The platelayers have had a long night tonight. The majority of Charlton Junction has been taken out and re-laid. Two new single slips and two new electrofrog points on the Banbury leg.

 

 

 

The slips are not being remotely operated. They retain their over centre springs and will be permenantly set to act as diamonds. They are arranged to be trailing to reduce the scope for derailing. Fingers crossed.

 

 

 

It was a bit of a pig to get to the points because by Sod's law they are under the bridge! Drilling the holes for the frog wires was interesting.

 

 

The S & T department still have to do their thing: track feeds are needed and the servos under the replacement points need to be adjusted. I need to wait for the 4 pole DT switches to arrive. At present each point is operated by a DPDT. The two Evenley leg points each used one pole for frogs, and one for servos. The two Banbury leg points used both poles for servos. The operation of the points also operates the relevant signals. Now that those points are electrofrog those switches need three poles because of the frogs. The switches for the two facing points also need an extra pole to switch over the power to the inner rails of the two slips between inner and outer circuits. I don't have to switch the outer rails as these are always common return.

 

And finally a photo across Evenley goods yard showing a down train at the starter, headed by City of Bath. Behind, in the bay, stands a 48xx with the auto train, waiting to depart for Brackley Road. As we know, she'll have quite a long wait!

 

 

It all looks far too train-setty. No ballast, a gap under the water crane (how do you bend resin models?), the spear fencing needs to along the nearside of the platform because the line on this side is the goods loop, there's no grass or back scene, the tin hut needs to be painted in Stone and those fire buckets need to be red.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Richard Mawer

[Silver Sidelines]

Hi Rich

 

Do the birds keep you awake all night as well?

 

I hope all this works.

...(how do you bend resin models?), .

Easy peasy, you just need need some hot water.  I have written a couple of Posts on my Blog.

 

Regards

 

Ray

Edited July 13, 2016 by Silver Sidelines

[Richard Mawer]

 

 

Do the birds keep you awake all night as well?

 

I hope all this works.

 

 

 Yes they do! And so do I! I'll let you know.

 

Rich

[Richard Mawer]

Hi Rich

 

 

Easy peasy, you just need need some hot water.  I have written a couple of Posts on my Blog.

 

Regards

 

Ray

Ah yes I see. Thanks

[Richard Mawer]

NORMAL SERVICE RESUMED

 

Last night I changed 3 of the 4 route switches for Charlton Junction from 2 pole to 4 pole and wired them up under the Banbury panel. This has allowed the frogs to be switched on the 2 live frog points which replaced the insulfrog ones; and for the feeds to the inner rails of both slips to be changed over. Luckily the outer rails are common return whichever way is selected. If they hadn't been, I would have needed a 5 pole switch!

 

 

 

Tonight I wired the frogs and slips. And hey presto it all works. Whilst I was faffing around with other stuff, I had a 28xx on a good length coal train going one way and the new 45xx running-in in the other. Neither stuttered on the junctions and nothing derailed, even though some of the trucks have previously been a real pain on the old diamonds. I really don't get why Peco don't update their code 100 crossing.

 

 

 

Thanks to the two Rays for the helpful advice. Much appreciated. I think the slips look ok. I feared they wouldn't look right there.

 

I was also going to power up another 4 points in Buckingham Yard, but events robbed me of time. Why does everything take far longer than I think it will?

 

It was not helped by a point at Evenley having a dizzy fit! The servo completely reset itself after various phantom shifts, judders and buzzes - all on its own!!!. I located the MERG Servo4 that was driving it, plugged the laptop in and managed to reset it, but both ends of the throw are now right towards the top end of the scale wheras they were towards the middle before. I presume the electronics on either the Servo4 board went wrong (but it still works), or the servo itself has had something happen to it. Perhaps it was the heat? It still works though, now I have changed the end point settings.

[Richard Mawer]

GWR WATER COLUMNS

 

Does anyone know who makes GWR water coloumns that stand on the ground?

 

I am just looking for the column version, not the one with a tank as well. I know Hornby and Ratio do those. I also know PD Matsh do brass platform mounted ones, but I need some to stand on normal ground.

[BG John]

Mike's Models did a whitemetal one many years ago. I don't know if it's now available from anyone else, or if you can find them on eBay or somewhere.

[Richard Mawer]

Mike's Models did a whitemetal one many years ago. I don't know if it's now available from anyone else, or if you can find them on eBay or somewhere.

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for this. A Google search threw up that Holt Model Railways still stock them, so I have ordered three.

 

Very grateful.

 

Rich

[Richard Mawer]

DOES 28 + 28 = 72?

 

With a lot of great advice and insight from Ray Silverside, Mike (coach) and Neal Ball, all of this parish, I have been making decisions about locos. I have 3 locos that need improvements in running. They are all older Hornby with tender drives and the polarity of pickups split between the loco and tender. As I have said before, the logic for that is way beyond me: way beyond anyone if you ask me!

 

The locos are County of Bedford (4-4-0), Saint David and a 28xx.

 

They all need extra pickups to lengthen the spread of pickups and avoid dead areas, frogs etc. the motors all run fine.

 

Can I be bothered? They all have reasonably course wheelsets too. My impression was that they clunk around a bit and don't like the modern points that well.

 

On top of that, Saint David is a poor model visibly and dimensionally. Detail is poor too. As a glorified branch in the mid 1930s, I would prefer a Saint to a Hall. The idea being older mainline locos being cast down the system.

 

The County is a useful engine and I would like to retain one.

 

As for the 28xx, it actually looks the part. Nice livery and lettering. Has good pulling power too.

 

 

I do have a more recent Hornby 28xx as well though. It's a lovely runner, and shirt button logo, but dear oh dear what were Hornby thinking of with that shade of green?! It will need serious weathering. Anyway, I'm thinking, do I need 2? Could I have a 72xx tank instead?

 

Plan A - go to work on them, adding pick ups and put up with the physical running issues and poor detail,

 

Plan B - sell all three and buy Hornby Railroad's Hall and County and a 72xx big tank.

 

Plan C - test the running again and take soundings from trusted people.

 

I opted for C. Now I have improved Charlton Junction, all 3 ran far better than was my impression from earlier trials.

 

Something Ray said to me was that the 28xx had a pick up on the loco, on the opposite side from the main power pickups. This was used just for the firebox glow and the smoke unit (I didn't even know it had smoke!). So why on Earth did Hornby not use that for power too?

 

So tonight I took the body off both loco and tender, disconnected the smoke unit - lots of stories of melted smoke boxes - and put a wire from the auxilary pick up on the loco accross to the tender and soldered it to the motor. I forgot to take a photo before putting the bodies back on, but the wire is soldered to the top of the pickup wiper (to the right of the firebox glow clear plastic light box) and passes through the hole in the chassis block immediately to the left of the light box. It enters the tender through a small hole just below the footplate.

 

 

The auxilary pickup is on the nearside rear driver. Because of the coupling rods, all the wheels are effectively connected. They are insulted from the chassis which is live to the power pickups on the left side of the loco. The tender chassis is live to the right side (nearest) wheels. I have not added any pickups to the left side of the tender. I hope the 2-8-0 wheelbase is long enough.

 

Power from the left side of the loco still passes to the tender via the drawbar connection. The right side power goes via the new wire.

 

 

Its not very obvious - no more than modern locos.

So all in all a very very simple improvement - and one in my opinion that shouldn't have been needed, but hey......

 

I've tested it and its much smoother over points.

 

So I've decided to keep both 28's. I can't justify (or fit) a 72 as well. But I do like the 28s.

 

I will have a go at the County too. It might have a spare pickup all ready and waiting, but I don't think so. I know it has a smoke unit. If I fail I will upgrade.

 

But Saint David's days are numbered. It's off to the great auction site in the ether. A Hall is on order.

 

Thanks again chaps for all the advice and help.

[Silver Sidelines]

Hell Rich

 

Good to see how it is all turning out.  Agreed, the Hornby old 28xx captured the spirit of the prototype.

 

Two pictures of one that I sold earlier,  Firstly the front end showing cylinders, slide bars and crosshead from Mainline 43xx.  Second the tender showing the handrail moulding opened up to leave an air gap.  I think added Cavendish sprung buffers at the front, and just the heads to the tender.

 

Hornby 28xx late crest - ex Mainline cylinders and slide bars

 

Hornby 28xx late crest - modified handrails

[Richard Mawer]

EXTRA PICKUPS AND TRUCKS

 

After the sucess with the 28xx, I've had a go at the County. This is the Churchward outside cylinder 4-4-0, not the Hawksworth 4-6-0.

 

This old Hornby model also features a smoke generator. I've never used it. I'm not a fan. I don't think it looks much like the real thing, and there's no steam out of the cylinders or cocks. Seeing as I don't have sound, I'm not going to do smoke.

 

However, like the 28xx Hornby powered the smoke generator from the loco without using the tender pickups. So they picked up current from both sides of the loco. The left side pickups on the driving wheels and the front bogie were used for the generator and the loco motor (tender mounted Ringfield) via brass finger contacts and brass pin on the tender drawbar. The right side of the loco (drivers only) only feeds the smoke generator.

 

The left side of the tender has no pickups but traction tyres on two wheels. The right side is the pickups for the other pole of the motor.

 

So Hornby went to the trouble of adding a pick up on the left side of the front bogie to lengthen the pickup area on that side, but they didn't bother (or think about) using the right side driving wheels to lengthen the right side pickups, but just relied on the tender.

 

Once I had disconnected the smoke generator, it was a simple job of using the red wire (which connected to the right side drivers even though the socket is on the left) and feeding it through the cab and into the tender. I used the other red wire from the generator (because it already had a crimped spade on it), soldered it to the end the red wire from the loco to extend the length, and push fitted it to the tender motor contact.

 

 

 

The tender is facing the wrong way here to show the connections to the motor.

 

Now one pole of the motor is connected to the front bogie and drivers, and the other pole to the drivers and tender wheels, thus extending the pickup base and smoothing out the running over points. I just need to colour the wire black and hide it with crew.

 

 

 

Meanwhile, one of the aging Dean Goods steams up the bank with ironstone empties for Evenley Quarry. The quarry has been run by the Hewitt family for generations. The wagons have Been around a good few years too. The quarry has quite a high output. There are 2 Down trains a day of loaded wagons and of course 2 Up trains of empties. Obviously the driver has gone to the other side of the cab to see what the fireman is up to!

 

 

Some of you will remember me painting those before the house move 2 years ago. I have had to rewheel them though. Apart from the fact they are all old Triang Hornby wagons with tyres as wide as steamrollers and flanges as deep as the pockets of American politicians, I had added ridges of paint make the wheels anything but circular. With some added weight (self adhesive lead on the undersides of the chassis) and the new wheels adjusted to the correct back-back they run quite well.

 

 

And finally this weekend, the last 4 points in the yard at Buckingham are up and working.

 

Hopefully next week I can add yet more weight to the two 43xxs so they can at least pull something!!!! And sort out some signals on the circuits and Evenley to Buckingham section.

 

Cheers

 

Rich

[Richard Mawer]

PRETTY BUT PRETTY USELESS

 

Ok, so what else can I do? Any ideas?

 

I am talking about my two 43's. They are Mainline bodies with Bachmann chassis.

 

I have added pickups to the tenders as you will have seen on here. That aspect has worked. The locos no longer stall on points.

 

Now, they just won't pull anything of any substance. I have filled as much of the body as I can with lead. I can't get any more in the body. I have put 2 strips under the cab roof, one on the cab floor and even under the chassis between the wheels. I seriously cannot add any more.

 

They won't pull 12 wagons or 4 coaches up the bank. The much maligned (pulling power-wise) Dukedog even manages 10 wagons or 3 coaches with only 2 driven axles. The City manages 5 coaches with just 4 drivers!

 

Apart from giving in and relegating the 43's to lightweight local passenger duties, what else can I do to improve performance?

 

Rich

Edited August 8, 2016 by Richard Mawer

[Silver Sidelines]

Hello Rich

 

I hope you have opened a bottle of wine!  I am surprised that after adding lots of lead you cannot get the 43xx to haul four coaches.  I have just been upstairs to carry out a wee check.  The Dukedog cannot manage more than two on the branch, my Bachmann 43xx has just struggled with four - and that is without any lead.

 

Adding too much lead at the front can lift the rear wheels up and reduce haulage.  My four coaches comprised two Hornby B set with metal wheels plus two Bachmann Mk1 suburban - again with metal wheels.  Drag due to sticky wheels can cause huge problems - I guess you will have checked that the tender and coach bogie wheels are all free running?  

 

Maybe we should see some pictures.  Is there any way the pony truck on the 43xx is lifting the driving wheels?

 

Something doesn't seem quite right.

 

Regards

 

Ray

[Richard Mawer]

Hello Rich

 

I hope you have opened a bottle of wine!  I am surprised that after adding lots of lead you cannot get the 43xx to haul four coaches.  I have just been upstairs to carry out a wee check.  The Dukedog cannot manage more than two on the branch, my Bachmann 43xx has just struggled with four - and that is without any lead.

 

Adding too much lead at the front can lift the rear wheels up and reduce haulage.  My four coaches comprised two Hornby B set with metal wheels plus two Bachmann Mk1 suburban - again with metal wheels.  Drag due to sticky wheels can cause huge problems - I guess you will have checked that the tender and coach bogie wheels are all free running?  

 

Maybe we should see some pictures.  Is there any way the pony truck on the 43xx is lifting the driving wheels?

 

Something doesn't seem quite right.

 

Regards

 

Ray

Hi Ray,

 

I have had to add lead to the pony to keep it on the rails. It had a pronounced tendancy to derail. It is very free and I can't see it lifting the drivers at all.

 

Your comment about too much weight at the front is interesting. The only place I could add weight inside the body shell was on top of the sloping weight of the chassis which is at the front. Perhaps I've over-done it. Hmmm

 

The coaches and wagons were free running.

 

Your branch has steeper gradients than mine.

 

All odd. I will try reducing the weight at the front.

 

As ever, thanks for the advice. And no, I had a couple of pints instead! My wife's comment will no doubt be "didn't you stick all that ON the other night?"

 

Rich

[Silver Sidelines]

Hello Rich

 

I am on paint duty today so it will be later before I can investigate further.  We have been bottling last year's wine to make room for this year's - it can be very strong.

 

Speak lagain

 

Ray

[checkrail]

Just read through all previous pages to catch up with this layout topic.  My hat goes off to you sir!  Frighteningly complex, admirably ambitious and I'm sure, in Kipling's words, "the work will be a marvel when it's done".  Will now follow avidly as it develops.

 

Best wishes,

John C.

 

My layout: STOKE COURTENAY, 1930s GWR junction station.  See layout topic.

[Silver Sidelines]

Hello Rich

 

Rained off so I have had an investigate.

 

Bachmann 43xx - pony truck with spring

 

From your description I am inclined (sorry about the pun) to think that your pony truck wheels are lifting the front drivers off the track. I have added a picture of the pony truck springing arrangement on my 43xx. It is not very clever as the spring is a very tight fit and can rub on the front of the chassis if the track is uneven.  I have in mind that I have had derailment problems in the past but all seems fine now.

 

To give you some confidence I have loaded a short video which shows a 43xx on four Bachmann Mk1s.  The gradient is close to 1 in 60, may even be steeper.  The engine is totally unmodified and the coaches have all their original weights.

 

http://youtu.be/0aOIqlxf2wU

[Richard Mawer]

Just read through all previous pages to catch up with this layout topic.  My hat goes off to you sir!  Frighteningly complex, admirably ambitious and I'm sure, in Kipling's words, "the work will be a marvel when it's done".  Will now follow avidly as it develops.

 

Best wishes,

John C.

 

My layout: STOKE COURTENAY, 1930s GWR junction station.  See layout topic.

Thanks John. Hopefully in a year or so it might start to look a bit more like a railway. My first priority is to get the last station built and get it fully operation to start playing trains to the timetable.

 

I am following Stoke Courtenay. Its great! Mine will never get to look like that.

 

Rich

[Richard Mawer]

Tonight I have been mostly running stock up and down the incline and staring at wheels!

 

I have taken all the weights out of one 43xx but left them in the other. There is a noticable difference in weight between the two. However I cannot see THAT much difference in pulling power, but there must be.

 

All of the photos are of the loco with the weights still in.

 

 

 

 

As you will see from these shots, I think all the wheels are pretty firmly on the rails. I can't see any just eased up.

 

 

There is a fair amount of lead below the running plate (correct term?)

 

 

There is also some in the cab of the bodyshell.

 

When running, the pony tended to jump, so I have had to add quite a bit of weight. My pony trucks don't have any form of spring - unlike yours Ray.

 

 

 

I can't see how this could be pushing the front drivers upwards. The weight is behind the pony wheels so will be pulling the loco front down if anything. Won't it?

 

To be sure, I removed the pony. The drivers look to be sitting just the same to me.

 

 

 

This is where most of the added weight is. This is the smoke box or pretty near it.

 

 

Is it too much, too far forwards? I can't see that it is raising the rear drivers.

 

I put the pony truck back on to see if it was catching on the chassis, but there is daylight between the two.

 

 

 

In the end, I managed to get it to pull 4 coaches up the bank. There is quite a bit of wheel spin in places, particularly on the bends, but it is not too different from the video of yours Ray.

 

That should be the equivalent of 12 wagons, but that is still pretty poor in my book.

 

 

It looks like I need to put some weight back on the other 43xx, but from what you can see, should I be putting less in the front of the chassis?

 

A rehash of the loco roster is needed. It looks like these are going to be restricted to local passenger duties. Not the freights I had originally intended.

 

Thanks for all the help yet again Ray. I owe you a pint or two!

 

Rich

[checkrail]

Interesting.  Though I've no gradients a 43xx is on my wish list, and I've read some recent speculation that it might be on Bachmann's list for an upgrade to current standards. If so it might be a better performer. Bu I guess we might be talking a couple of years or so.

 

John C.

 

My layout: STOKE COURTENAY, GWR junction station.  See layout topic.

[Richard Mawer]

Interesting.  Though I've no gradients a 43xx is on my wish list, and I've read some recent speculation that it might be on Bachmann's list for an upgrade to current standards. If so it might be a better performer. Bu I guess we might be talking a couple of years or so.

 

John C.

 

My layout: STOKE COURTENAY, GWR junction station.  See layout topic.

John, the old Bachmann ones aren't too bad on the level. They will haul 5 or 6 bogies. They just don't like banks.

 

The Mainline version had traction tyres and would pull most things. Unfortunately they sounded like a buzz saw and the wheels tended to slip on the axles and so lose the quartering in some pretty dramatic fashion!

[Silver Sidelines]

Hello Rich again

 

I like a challenge and have been thinking about your problem.  I am impressed by your efforts at adding lead.   How did you stick it all together?  

 

I am guessing that you must have added another 50gm, perhaps more?  That must have a huge positive benefit.

 

As you say there is no sign of the lead lifting the rear wheels.

 

It might sound a daft question but is the track clean, perhaps there are traces of oil?

 

The Bachmann Mk1 coaches are very heavy.  Out of interest I have loaded a video showing the 43xx starting on the 1 in 60 gradient with 12 wagons plus a brake.  These were ex Mainline tank wagons retro fitted with Bachmann disc wheels.  I will let you judge but I think quite good.

 

https://youtu.be/b8HS3-_nsQQ

 

 

May be some pointers to improving the 43xx?

 

Speak again

 

Ray

[Richard Mawer]

Ray,

 

It is self adhesive lead strip which I got from Eileen's Emporium at a show. I put a strip of gaffa tape over the chassis first to stop any shorting.

 

I have since found that you can buy self adhesive lead off Amazon and other places which is meant for making stain glass windows or leaded windows. I wonder if Hobbycraft do it?

 

As far as I am aware the track is clean. I had rubbed it with a track rubber.

 

I did find thst one of the wagons in the rake did not run freely, but it is hard to believe one stiff wagon can stop a loco.

 

I like your video. 12 wagons is akin to 4 coaches in my book. Whilst she was slipping, she managed it.

 

I was hoping mine would pull 5 coaches or 15/16 wagons up the bank. The 2-8-0s pull over 20. They might pull more but I can't handle more in Buckingham yard and only 1 loop can take more: 23. It looks like they will be stuck on 3 coaches, 4 at a push (hopefully not literally) and 12 wagons max. Its looking better than I thought though.

 

I think I will still take about a third or half of the lead off the front just in case it is lifting the rear. I'll try to get more in the cab or middle of the loco.

 

I hope you get all your painting done.

 

Rich

[Silver Sidelines]

Thanks Rich

 

I was rained off on Monday, gave it a miss on Tuesday because rain was forecast, whilst today ( and supposedly the rest of the week) was a wash out.  So far this summer I have used 100 L of paint - should be passed half way on what I am planning to do.  White painted houses look nice in pictures but maintenance is an issue.

 

Speak again

 

Ray