Bachmann announce Class 117 and Class 121 at Collectors Club event

[DavidB]

Hi Chris

 

The first few Pressed Steel sets had the rounded top to the headcode box - in later years, these were Reading sets L400, 401 and 402. The unlined light green livery suggests that this is one of those sets.

 

David

[brushman47544]

117's also saw some use on the Reading - Redhill - Tonbridge services apparently.

No 'apparently' about it. They appeared all too often unfortunately. The photo of the NSE liveried unit in the Bachmann announcement was taken at North Camp on that line - you can see the oil terminal siding on the right.

[exet1095]

Well Kernewek (Cornish) and Cymraeg (Welsh) do have some similarities, so hopefully any Cornish speakers would have found the bi-lingual Arriva notices slightly less of a problem than most English speakers!

Except Cornish died out in the eighteenth century. There are several rival revivalist languages, but they are about as authentic as Klingon. Now, that'll get me flamed, but there is nothing more tedious than the divisive nationalism of this sort of thing.

[dibber25]

Have a feeling FGW hire a couple of Arriva 150s to boost capacity every Summer during the high season, and they go back to Arriva in September.  The Silverlink ones were transfers, though. Think they were former Bedford-Blechley or possibly Gospel Oak-Barking sets.

I seem to recall a Bedford-Bletchley map in the Silverlink one. I wonder if the new Vivarail D-train will still have the Underground maps inside!

CHRIS LEIGH

[The Stationmaster]

Now that's interesting.  The other pics of 117s on this thread have headcode boxes with flat tops. This one is rounded.  It can't be a 118 - can it?

 

Chris

 

Hi Chris

 

The first few Pressed Steel sets had the rounded top to the headcode box - in later years, these were Reading sets L400, 401 and 402. The unlined light green livery suggests that this is one of those sets.

 

David

It was a very early set - one of the first I saw and at a time when there were still only a few of them in traffic.

[dibber25]

I generally agree with Chris (dibber)'s comments about 117 etc although I honestly can't recall any arriving with round buffers but some very definitely acquired them later but both Reading and Southall held spares of both the 'chopped off' pattern and ordinary round headed buffers.  I would be a little surprised in fact if Pressed Steel had switched from one type to another during production (unless they were short of supplies for some reason?).

 

Equally I cannot recall the 104s appearing on the Henley - the atrocious 103 yes but not 104s unless it was in the rare event of a failure somewhere however Reading supplied the cars for the Henley branch and I'm far from sure if it acquired any of the 104s but as Chris has already noted some very strange things went on with London Division dmus in their final 'Modernisation Scheme' era.

 

Anyway here's an early Class 117 picture

 

New Pressed Steel 3 car unit .jpg

I'm not suggesting they were necessarily new with round buffers - I think cuts were probably the norm - but I didn't start spotting on the WR till 1962 so that gives two years for them to have got changed. I'm also pretty certain that I remember seeing one (probably a Class 121) with one cut and one round buffer on the same end. I recall at the time a debate with my colleagues at IA because they said such things were not allowed. I photographed a 103 passing Shiplake - I always thought they were nice-looking units but I'm not sure if I rode on it.

CHRIS LEIGH

[wombatofludham]

Except Cornish died out in the eighteenth century. There are several rival revivalist languages, but they are about as authentic as Klingon. Now, that'll get me flamed, but there is nothing more tedious than the divisive nationalism of this sort of thing.

No flaming, yes I know modern Cornish is an academic amalgamation of several interpretations of Cornish languages, but really, there's nothing more tedious than people over-reacting to a tongue-in-cheek comment made in jest.

 

Really, a wry little comment is "divisive nationalism"?

[dibber25]

Now that's interesting.  The other pics of 117s on this thread have headcode boxes with flat tops. This one is rounded.  It can't be a 118 - can it?

 

Chris

...and no marker lights, so were the ones I recall without marker lights actually 118s or perhaps just these early 117s? In green days there was no class number system, so no real distinction between units that looked outwardly the same. I have a shot of an unlined unit at Staines West on the evening through working from Pdn. Not easy to see whether or not it has marker lights as the platform barrier is in the way. I'll see if I can post it - it's a rare shot of a 117 at Staines other than on the last day when a 117 replaced the 121 all day.

CHRIS LEIGH

[Clive Mortimore]

I generally agree with Chris (dibber)'s comments about 117 etc although I honestly can't recall any arriving with round buffers but some very definitely acquired them later but both Reading and Southall held spares of both the 'chopped off' pattern and ordinary round headed buffers.  I would be a little surprised in fact if Pressed Steel had switched from one type to another during production (unless they were short of supplies for some reason?).

 

Equally I cannot recall the 104s appearing on the Henley - the atrocious 103 yes but not 104s unless it was in the rare event of a failure somewhere however Reading supplied the cars for the Henley branch and I'm far from sure if it acquired any of the 104s but as Chris has already noted some very strange things went on with London Division dmus in their final 'Modernisation Scheme' era.

 

Anyway here's an early Class 117 picture

 

New Pressed Steel 3 car unit .jpg

I feel this is a Pressed Steel unit not a BRCW one as it does not have the lights under the windscreens. Is that the warning about the AWS and LT lines on the buffer beam?

[lazythread]

I remember a 101/121 hybrid set (101 Motor Brake Composite, 121 Driving Trailer) in the last years before Turbofication.

I believe the DMBC was 53155 and was a one-off conversion from a DMBS. I don't know the identity of the 121 driving trailer. They were together as a "L" numbered unit for a while. I'm certain I travelled on it on the Marlow branch sometime in the early 90s.

[BMacdermott]

Thanks Chris L, Chris F, Mike etc for some interesting comments and photos.

 

If you have a look at Class 118 at www.railcar.co.uk you will see a 118 without marker lights. Railway research.....never easy, is it!

 

Brian

[chrisf]

 Railway research.....never easy, is it!

 

Brian

 

Try 'challenging'!

 

Chris

[wombatofludham]

On the headcode box issue I wonder if any units had to receive a replacement cab roof especially in later years and whether as a consequence the two types got mixed up? I know the infamous "Midline" bubble got a class 122 cab roof at one end and a 121 at the other which makes a model of that unit difficult for rtr, so I wonder if the 117 and 118s got their cab roof replaced occasionally?

[dibber25]

I feel this is a Pressed Steel unit not a BRCW one as it does not have the lights under the windscreens. Is that the warning about the AWS and LT lines on the buffer beam?

Yes - most likely an early Pressed Steel. The wording on the buffer beam appears to be:

FITTED WITH

ATC CLIP-UP GEAR

FOR LT LINES

I think this wording also appeared on the cab ends of some units, beside the lamp iron, as I recall a close-up photo of it in the Ian Allan Library many years ago. I imagine that contact between a GWR ATC shoe and the live rail would not have been a good idea!

W55033 received the roof dome off a Derby or Gloucester unit, fitted to the exhaust pipe end, during repair at Swindon Works. The Class 121 exhaust pipes were retained despite the lack of a four-character 'box. The last time I saw it, it was looking good, freshly restored to lined green at the Colne Valley Railway. Preserved units - particularly 117s - are NOT a good research guide for modelling as I don't know of any that have been returned to true original condition. THe railways tend to retain the grilles fitted during refurbishment and the high intensity headlights which were fitted much later in their careers. Never mind the debates we could have about the wrong shades of green that are used!

CHRIS LEIGH

Edited September 8, 2015 by dibber25

[BMacdermott]

Dear All

 

Some extracts for you....

 

Railway Observer May 1960, page 162: The first of a new series of diesel multiple units from the B.R.C.& W. works passed through Birmingham (Snow Hill) on 26th March.

 

Trains Illustrated May 1960, page 305: A photo with the caption: One of Pressed Steel's first three-car diesel multiple units for the Western Region, photographed at Southall. The cars are Nos.W51332/74 and W59484. (Photo L.Harper). The unit was unlined.

 

Trains Illustrated May 1960, page 313: The Birmingham R.C. & W. Co. has completed its first three-car diesel multiple unit for the W.R., cars Nos.51302/17 and 59469, which left the Smethwick works on March 22.

 

Trains Illustrated June 1960, page 378/9: The first Birmingham R.C. & W. three-car diesel multiple unit for the Western Region, Nos.51302*/17 and 59469, arrived at the Harwell Street diesel depot, Plymouth, early in April and was put on crew training between Plymouth and Truro. Page 379 showed a photo of the unit taken by RC Riley on 8 April 1960. It was lined.

 

Notes:

1. * TI stated 59302.

2. There do not appear to be marker lights on either unit.

 

Brian

 

Brian

[Karhedron]

Equally I cannot recall the 104s appearing on the Henley.

I remember travelling on a 104 on the Reading - Paddington services a few times and thinking how dismal and dingy it looked (some criticism when the normal comparison was a 117 ). But I never saw it on the Henley branch (or the Marlow Donkey for that matter).

[Fat Controller]

I seem to recall a Bedford-Bletchley map in the Silverlink one. I wonder if the new Vivarail D-train will still have the Underground maps inside!

CHRIS LEIGH

In the 1960s, our local bus company in South-West Wales (Eynon's of Trimsaran) ran a selection of ex-LT RTs; not only did they retain the LT decor on the inside, but the destination blinds were unaltered. Rather than wind them round to give a blank display, they'd have the LT route number and destination displayed, with a piece of card or paper taped to a window with the real destination on it.

[dibber25]

In the 1960s, our local bus company in South-West Wales (Eynon's of Trimsaran) ran a selection of ex-LT RTs; not only did they retain the LT decor on the inside, but the destination blinds were unaltered. Rather than wind them round to give a blank display, they'd have the LT route number and destination displayed, with a piece of card or paper taped to a window with the real destination on it.

Getting off topic (sorry) but the Routemaster I saw at Niagara Falls had Upton Park on the blind. Presumably a West Ham fan was involved....

[BigAndy]

I think Bachmann should be congratulated on adding another DMU to their fleet, I'm sure it will be up to the standards already set by their previous releases.

 

Another thing to think about here is that with the release of the 117, it is one of the 64ft units compared to the 57ft of the 101's,105's,108's etc......... with that in mind, could the fact that Bachmann now have a 64ft chassis available, could it pave the way for a future release of a 120?

 

Just a thought

 

cheers

 

Andy

[MJI]

Mainly

117 Old Oak, Bristol and later on Laira, ended up Tyseley

116 Cardiff, Tyseley

118 Laira, Bristol

 

I don't need a 116

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64282-c301-116-dmu-modelled-from-lima/page-4

[paulbb]

Some of the older DMU 'greens' on the WR were a little different to the one eventually settled on such as the 117 to be produced by Bachmann. There was a light

(unlined) green used possibly on 116's; there was also the dark shade that had a hint of blue in it (like the photos above), again unlined. Some interesting

repaints/commissions are possible!

[Gwiwer]

Getting off topic (sorry) but the Routemaster I saw at Niagara Falls had Upton Park on the blind. Presumably a West Ham fan was involved....

 

Linking that idea with the topic to hand the class 117 sets did run on the Gospel Oak - Barking line for a time which cut through the heart of West Ham and Upton Park garages territories.  The bus you saw at Niagara Falls was, I believe, an extended-version RML once allocated to Upton Park (U) garage which stood in the shadow of the football ground rather than being a West Ham (WH) bus as the latter ran only the standard RM type.  The standard garage-working display was "Upton Park Priory Road" or "Upton Park Boleyn" if turning short but not running in.  The compendious "Upton Park Boleyn via Green Street" was used for those Saturday-only U workings which ran in off the 86 from Forest Gate.

[The Stationmaster]

Mainly

117 Old Oak, Bristol and later on Laira, ended up Tyseley

116 Cardiff, Tyseley

118 Laira, Bristol

 

I don't need a 116

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64282-c301-116-dmu-modelled-from-lima/page-4

DMUs didn't go to Old Oak until much later - the depot had no way of dealing with them until the HST servicing shed was extended although they could stable in the yard ) if there was room.  When new the Pressed Steel units were split between Reading and Southall for servicing/maintenance as they were the only depots on the London Division which could deal with them.  Units were also allocated to diagrams effectively based on Slough (but Southall diagrams mainly I think) and possibly West London; West London certainly had limited dmu servicing facilities at some time so could manage fuel & inspection but I'm not sure when it was closed - possibly it was still open when the Pressed Steel sets arrived?

A few sets probably stabled overnight at Oxford plus a number of SPCs and DETs were stabled overnight on two, possibly three, London Division branchlines for as long as they retained locally based Drivers (which I think was probably not very long).

I feel this is a Pressed Steel unit not a BRCW one as it does not have the lights under the windscreens. Is that the warning about the AWS and LT lines on the buffer beam?

 

Very definitely a Pressed Steel set - at the time I took that picture in 1960 I hadn't even seen any of the BRCW sets intended for the West of England!  

Incidentally the 1962/63 IA Combined Volume has a good picture of W51332 at Rerading in lined livery, round topped headcode box, electrification warning flashes and no marker lights.

[Captain Kernow]

there's nothing more tedious than people over-reacting to a tongue-in-cheek comment made in jest.

 

Really, a wry little comment is "divisive nationalism"?

Of course it isn't.

 

And anyway, the Cornish have never had it so good, the fee they pay to get into England via the Tamar Bridge is very reasonable, in my view.

 

And also, I'm extremely happy to hear this announcement about the Class 117 and the Class 121. However, I do believe that I'm getting rather concerned that no one has mentioned whether they can be easily converted to P4 yet.

[Pandora]

I was a commuter into Paddington for 3 years on the faithful  Pressed Steel units,  3-car sets and bubble cars so I will have to place myself on the Bachmann  pre-order list.

 

When heavily laden, the doors would not close shut due to sagging of the underframes, the Guard would pop along to sort things out

 

Recalling my commute on the Pressed Steels,  my favourite trips were with  the prototype unit class 210.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_210

 

 

1100 bhp of diesel-electric drive gave exhilarating step-less "sports car" speed and acceleration, the  above-floor engine meant only 2 plus a half-car for passenger accommodation.

 

I suppose the cost per seat was too high for the Treasury to endure

Edited September 8, 2015 by Pandora