Bachmann announce Class 117 and Class 121 at Collectors Club event

[Gwiwer]

A Bachmann press release issued today by Richard Proudman includes this comment: 

 

As you will expect, the disruption caused by Covid-19 will have far reaching effects but with our factories in China now restarting production, we have just been informed that our next shipment in being prepared and this will include the first of the Bachmann Branchline Class 117 & 121 DMUs and the Graham Farish Thompson Coaches. Due to the nationwide lockdown, no Bachmann shipments have left China since January and we are therefore looking forward to this shipment arriving hopefully in early June.

[89A]

Anybody know of any sound projects planned for the 117 with plux 22 decoders?

[Gopher]

19 hours ago, 89A said:

Anybody know of any sound projects planned for the 117 with plux 22 decoders?

I purchased a first generation DMU sound project  (Paul Chetter) from Digitrains on a Zimo plux 22 decoder.  Just need the Class 117 to turn up now.    There are some other excellent  DMU sound projects available from other suppliers, but must admit I failed to find many offering them on  Plux 22.  I have used Paul's sound projects on other models, and they are excellent.    

[fezza]

Might be an odd question but did all first gen dmus really sound the same? I always thought Met Cams and Calder Valley units had a more "rasping" sound. The Bachmann 101 factory sound seems a bit soft to me. Did the sound largely depend on the condition / age of the exhaust unit? 

 

I am right in thinking there won't be any factory sound versions of these? 

[BR Blue]

You are correct. Bachmann have not yet announced any sound versions for the 117 or 121.

Currently just the Green, Blue / Grey and NSE versions from Bachmann - all 3 are DCC ready but none are DCC or sound fitted.

Kernow are doing the GWR liveried version and I am sure they will offer sound option but I do not think it is factory fitted.

[Ben04uk]

Has anyone commissioned one in plain BR Blue livery?

[Flood]

54 minutes ago, Ben04uk said:

Has anyone commissioned one in plain BR Blue livery?

I don't think so (I'd happily be corrected).

 

I'm thinking I'll have to buy a blue and grey one and strip it to remove any trace of the lining/demarkation.

[Gopher]

3 hours ago, fezza said:

Might be an odd question but did all first gen dmus really sound the same? I always thought Met Cams and Calder Valley units had a more "rasping" sound. The Bachmann 101 factory sound seems a bit soft to me. Did the sound largely depend on the condition / age of the exhaust unit? 

 

I am right in thinking there won't be any factory sound versions of these? 

I am sure there are subtle differences.  I think the 117s initially had AEC engines, then Leyland (no idea when they changed).  The blurb on the Digitrains website said this sound project was suitable for Class 108, and class 121.  So I thought that will do me, as they also supplied Plux 22 decoders..   

[robertcwp]

4 hours ago, Ben04uk said:

Has anyone commissioned one in plain BR Blue livery?

I wish they would!

[charliepetty]

2 hours ago, Gopher said:

I am sure there are subtle differences.  I think the 117s initially had AEC engines, then Leyland (no idea when they changed).  The blurb on the Digitrains website said this sound project was suitable for Class 108, and class 121.  So I thought that will do me, as they also supplied Plux 22 decoders..   

Legomanbiffo does a Leyland DMU with Auto Gear Change:   Function list below:

F0 Lights On/Off.

F1 Sound On/Off. Start-Up: ( To start second engine - notch up then notch down )

F2 Playable High Note Horn.

F3 Playable Low Note Horn.

F4 Buffering Up when moving (Coupling, sound when stationary)

F5 Brake Application when moving/ Vacuum Dump when stationery.

F6 Random Passengers Doors slamming (Multiple Door Slams)

F7 Engine Rev Up, when stationery / Gear change when moving.

F8 Toilet Flush.

F9 Automatic Flange/Wheel Squeal.

F10 Despatch Whistle.

F11 Guard to Driver 'Right of Way signal' Buzzer.

F12 UNUSED.

F13 UNUSED.

F14 UNUSED.

F15 Fire Bell (Fire test before starting).

F16 Handbrake On.

F17 Handbrake Off.

F18 Detonators (3 Bang Stop)

F19 Aux 1 ( Cab Lights ) 

F20 Aux 2

 

Charlie (dckits-legomanbiffo)

[Gwiwer]

9 hours ago, fezza said:

Might be an odd question but did all first gen dmus really sound the same? I always thought Met Cams and Calder Valley units had a more "rasping" sound. The Bachmann 101 factory sound seems a bit soft to me. Did the sound largely depend on the condition / age of the exhaust unit? 

 

There were subtle differences.  AEC and Leyland engines sounded different.  Then there were the hydraulic ones which didn't have the same "choof" gear-change at all and a more constant engine sound.  I always thought of the 104s as having a sharper sound than some others with a more pronounced "popping" to the exhaust.  The 116/7/8 family purred along nicely and SWMBO even referred to them as "purring trains".  The 105s were a sharper sound; it might be memory playing tricks but I recall that they revved more slowly giving a deeper note.  

Edited May 9, 2020 by Gwiwer
Uncorrecting auto-correct!

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, charliepetty said:

Legomanbiffo does a Leyland DMU with Auto Gear Change:   Function list below:

F0 Lights On/Off.

F1 Sound On/Off. Start-Up: ( To start second engine - notch up then notch down )

F2 Playable High Note Horn.

F3 Playable Low Note Horn.

F4 Buffering Up when moving (Coupling, sound when stationary)

F5 Brake Application when moving/ Vacuum Dump when stationery.

F6 Random Passengers Doors slamming (Multiple Door Slams)

F7 Engine Rev Up, when stationery / Gear change when moving.

F8 Toilet Flush.

F9 Automatic Flange/Wheel Squeal.

F10 Despatch Whistle.

F11 Guard to Driver 'Right of Way signal' Buzzer.

F12 UNUSED.

F13 UNUSED.

F14 UNUSED.

F15 Fire Bell (Fire test before starting).

F16 Handbrake On.

F17 Handbrake Off.

F18 Detonators (3 Bang Stop)

F19 Aux 1 ( Cab Lights ) 

F20 Aux 2

 

Charlie (dckits-legomanbiffo)

 

 

That sharp “sssshhhhhhhpp” sound followed by the relief as the vac is destroyed was a trademark 1st gen DMU sound...

 

I did notice that the way drivers drove 1st gen DMUs changed when 142/150’s arrived, prior they seemed to gently pull from the station and ramp up revs on the move  (to the point of the exhaust rattling) prior each gear change and slowly build up speed.

 

But after the 142’s arrived, drivers seemed to rev them up high, start moving, then gear change at a higher speed at shorter intervals, much the same way as pacers/ sprinters go.

Edited May 9, 2020 by adb968008

[Andy W]

18 hours ago, fezza said:

Might be an odd question but did all first gen dmus really sound the same? I always thought Met Cams and Calder Valley units had a more "rasping" sound. The Bachmann 101 factory sound seems a bit soft to me. Did the sound largely depend on the condition / age of the exhaust unit? 

 

I am right in thinking there won't be any factory sound versions of these? 

The Calder Valley sets (Class 110) had 180hp Rolls Royce engines, which as you might expect sound different to the 150hp AEC and Leyland engines in the bulk of heritage DMUs. As others have said, the AEC and Leyland engines differ from each other as well. MetCamm built 101-lookalike units with Rolls Royce engines too, class 111. So it all depends which units you are remembering.

[The Stationmaster]

3 hours ago, Andy W said:

The Calder Valley sets (Class 110) had 180hp Rolls Royce engines, which as you might expect sound different to the 150hp AEC and Leyland engines in the bulk of heritage DMUs. As others have said, the AEC and Leyland engines differ from each other as well. MetCamm built 101-lookalike units with Rolls Royce engines too, class 111. So it all depends which units you are remembering.

The 117s had what were referred to at London Division depots as 'AEC engines'  although they were a BUT design usually shown as 'Leyland'; calling them AEC engines was probably a hangover from the earlier Gloucester units.  What were called 'Leyland engines' at London Division depots were the very different, and more powerful, engines used under the parcels cars - they had completely different cylinder heads from the 150hp engines used on the Gloucester and Pressed Steel built cars.

 

The two builds of 150 hp engines would seem to have been to exactly the same BUT design but the sounds varied according to the exhaust arrangement especially the noise on over-run when the engine was throttled down at gear changing and when powered up for staring and acceleration.  Driving style could also make a difference as well.  There was noticeable difference between the exhaust sounds of a 121 and a 122 due to the very obvious difference in their exhaust pipe arrangement.

Edited May 10, 2020 by The Stationmaster

[wombatofludham]

19 hours ago, charliepetty said:

Legomanbiffo does a Leyland DMU with Auto Gear Change:   Function list below:

F0 Lights On/Off.

F1 Sound On/Off. Start-Up: ( To start second engine - notch up then notch down )

F2 Playable High Note Horn.

F3 Playable Low Note Horn.

F4 Buffering Up when moving (Coupling, sound when stationary)

F5 Brake Application when moving/ Vacuum Dump when stationery.

F6 Random Passengers Doors slamming (Multiple Door Slams)

F7 Engine Rev Up, when stationery / Gear change when moving.

F8 Toilet Flush.

F9 Automatic Flange/Wheel Squeal.

F10 Despatch Whistle.

F11 Guard to Driver 'Right of Way signal' Buzzer.

F12 UNUSED.

F13 UNUSED.

F14 UNUSED.

F15 Fire Bell (Fire test before starting).

F16 Handbrake On.

F17 Handbrake Off.

F18 Detonators (3 Bang Stop)

F19 Aux 1 ( Cab Lights ) 

F20 Aux 2

 

Charlie (dckits-legomanbiffo)

Charlie, are you planning to offer a ready-fitted Class 117 in your range of sound-fitted locos and units on your website?  If so, I can hang back on buying a blue-grey unit when they come out in anticipation!  I know, I'm a lazy so-and-so but buying with the chip and loudspeaker fitted is a lot easier and removes any need for me to risk the soldering iron.  Giving me a soldering iron is like giving a five-year old the codes to the Nuclear Deterrent: you know it won't end well and someone will get burnt.

[Gopher]

1 hour ago, wombatofludham said:

Charlie, are you planning to offer a ready-fitted Class 117 in your range of sound-fitted locos and units on your website?  If so, I can hang back on buying a blue-grey unit when they come out in anticipation!  I know, I'm a lazy so-and-so but buying with the chip and loudspeaker fitted is a lot easier and removes any need for me to risk the soldering iron.  Giving me a soldering iron is like giving a five-year old the codes to the Nuclear Deterrent: you know it won't end well and someone will get burnt.

The good news is the class 117 comes already installed with a loud speakers, so all you have to do is plug in the chip.  Of course you may have to use the soldering iron if you want to install different speakers.    

[charliepetty]

I hope the speakers are better than the Class 25 Pre Fitted ones !!!!!!

 

Sadly they are not good.     Charlie

 

 

Sound fitting can be arranged.

Edited May 10, 2020 by charliepetty

[charliepetty]

4 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

Charlie, are you planning to offer a ready-fitted Class 117 in your range of sound-fitted locos and units on your website?  If so, I can hang back on buying a blue-grey unit when they come out in anticipation!  I know, I'm a lazy so-and-so but buying with the chip and loudspeaker fitted is a lot easier and removes any need for me to risk the soldering iron.  Giving me a soldering iron is like giving a five-year old the codes to the Nuclear Deterrent: you know it won't end well and someone will get burnt.

Yes I need to know which ones though!!

 

Charlie

[66738]

I’m not convinced anyone has got the 1st Generation DMU sound spot on yet. I’m not aware of a sound profile that has the change in engine sound as it goes from idle to 1st gear being selected. To assist in getting across what I mean, 0:29 seconds in. Although from memory, the sound is probably more pronounced on this Train Sim link below than in real life, there definitely is this change in engine sound. I’m willing to stand corrected if it has been replicated. 
The rasp of some exhausts compared to others is demonstrated at 1:30.

66738

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by 66738

[charliepetty]

21 hours ago, charliepetty said:

Yes I need to know which ones though!!

 

Charlie

Its a secret but we are half way through a 'NEW' DMU aimed at specific units we do not actually cover with the rasping exhaust, IE: 104, 114, 115, 116, 117.

 

The current test file is nice.

 

Charlie (DCKits-Legomambiffo)

[89A]

The question may have been asked somewhere on this forum but I am still not clear on whether the existing cab front toolings for the Bachmann 108 which cater for both the large route indicator box on the roof and the smaller destination indicator box on the roof can match the body profile of the 116, 117 and 118.

 

The question I am asking therefore is if anybody can confirm is that Bachmann have had to manufacture a different cab front tooling for the 117 than the existing large route indicator box version for the 108 because of different body profiles.

[Not Captain Kernow]

It is totally new tooling.

 

[aureol40012]

On 11/05/2020 at 22:56, 89A said:

The question may have been asked somewhere on this forum but I am still not clear on whether the existing cab front toolings for the Bachmann 108 which cater for both the large route indicator box on the roof and the smaller destination indicator box on the roof can match the body profile of the 116, 117 and 118.

 

The question I am asking therefore is if anybody can confirm is that Bachmann have had to manufacture a different cab front tooling for the 117 than the existing large route indicator box version for the 108 because of different body profiles.

Surely it’ll be an entirely new moulding, especially as the 108 tooling is so old?

[89A]

1 hour ago, aureol40012 said:

Surely it’ll be an entirely new moulding, especially as the 108 tooling is so old?

 

I think the 108 tooling was a good representation generally.

 

The fact that Bachamnn were able to offer alternative cab fronts for the 108 suggested that there were either separate moulds or alternative inserts for the cab fronts as per the 37, 40 etc. nose fronts.

 

 I just wondered whether those moulds could be reused and would suit the 117 body profile.

 

If the cab fronts are all new tooling as suggested I hope that the ability to offer alternatives as on the 108 has been considered.

[BR Blue]

The Bachmann 108 is a great model and like many models in the last view years the tooling allows variations. 

I would be fairly sure Bachmann have planned for variations in the 117 tooling and hopefully the 116 and its different headcones (centre is different too).

I will get a couple of 117s but I will get a lot of 116s if they were to be produced.