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Bachmann announce Class 117 and Class 121 at Collectors Club event


Andy Y
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1 hour ago, Philou said:

Can any kind soul who knows his/her stuff about 117s, tell me if any of these units worked out of Cardiff? It seems that I may need a 116, though the source I read was not specific where the 117s worked within the Western Region.

609270718_C466PONTYPRIDD1988.jpg.6b0b4a1e7a3f6f7b60bba31bfb226571.jpgAbout 1990 at Pontypridd. Complete with first class to Barry Island and toilet.

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1 hour ago, Philou said:

Can any kind soul who knows his/her stuff about 117s, tell me if any of these units worked out of Cardiff? It seems that I may need a 116, though the source I read was not specific where the 117s worked within the Western Region.

 

They do look rather nice!

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

Photo here on Flickr of a unit that had moved to Cardiff from Tyseley in 1989, at Abercynon, so it seems they did get to Caerdydd (not my photo I hasten to add), 
 

117 at Abercynon on Flickr

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I'm wondering if anyone can remember when the 117s first became allocated to Tyseley?  I've got in the back of my mind 1987, but that photo of the Cardiff set having moved from Tyseley in 1988 makes me wonder if I've got it right.

Could it have been 1986? Tyseley's DMU fleet was in a state of flux around then, with two car Class 114 and 108 units coming to the depot, the 116 units being gangway fitted, the 101s heading off to East Anglia, so I wonder if the 117s first arrived about then?

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Hi,

 

Just an observation as the Class 117 I've just bought is the first two motored Multiple Unit I've used:

 

I put one of the Driving Motors on my Gaugemaster DC Rolling Road - no motor noise.

Put the other Driving Motor on and the wheels turn on the motor bogie. Plug the other Driving Motor via the coupling and hold horizontal.

Wheels turn on both motor bogies.

 

Both Driving Motors have split axle wheel sets and axle point bearing pickups  on the trailing  (non motorred) bogies but presumably due to the DCC blanking plug arrangement the Driving Motors need to be connected for the one without the DCC socket to run.

 

I may run in on DC using a conventional circular test track.

 

Take care.

 

Nick

 

 

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42 minutes ago, 89A said:

2037482531_465PONTYPRIDD1988.jpg.817bdeeb6603b1b37d2272287a775d74.jpgT465 at Pontypridd about 1990. These units were part of the Tren Y Cwm fleet for a number of years.

Hi,

 

Looks like a Class 118 to me (more curved  top to headcode box).

 

Nick

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5 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

When you receive your model spend a minute or two checking the wheel sets.My 121 started its career disappointingly. It is a pig to rail because of its design but in any case mine firstly resisted it....being light doesn’t help here. Given power eventually,it was hesitant and noisy,being prone to stop-start behaviour. Eventually as everyskoolboyno,it dawned on me .Picking up model,examined trailing wheel sets....both of which needed to be clipped  into place to ensure proper contact. It now does what it should. Derails had in fact checked it before sending.I do understand how it was missed.

 

Anyway,it is a lovely model.

 

Sorry about that Ian! I have PM'd you! :-) 

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16 minutes ago, NIK said:

Hi,

 

Looks like a Class 118 to me (more curved  top to headcode box).

 

Nick

Yes Nick

 

Tend to agree having looked more closely but at least wombatofludham has found a 117 at Abercynon

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2 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

I'm wondering if anyone can remember when the 117s first became allocated to Tyseley?  I've got in the back of my mind 1987, but that photo of the Cardiff set having moved from Tyseley in 1988 makes me wonder if I've got it right.

Could it have been 1986? Tyseley's DMU fleet was in a state of flux around then, with two car Class 114 and 108 units coming to the depot, the 116 units being gangway fitted, the 101s heading off to East Anglia, so I wonder if the 117s first arrived about then?

Looking in my Ian Allen ABC Multiple Unit book Printed Late Dec 1986, there were no 117’s allocated to Tysley and only 2 118 DMBS vehicles (M51308/9), 2 118 DMS vehicles (M51323/24) and 2 118 TC(L)/TS(L) vehicles (M59475/6). 
Looking at 1988’s book Printed 2nd January 1988, all the above 6 118 vehicles had moved on to Heaton. 118 vehicles new to Tysley were DMBS 51314/6, DMS 51329/31 and TS(L) 59478/81/83.
 

New to Tysley, 117 vehicles were DMBS 51334/38/39/48/52/53/60/64/65/69/70 and 71.

DMS : 51376/80/82/90/94/95/402/06/07/11/12/ and 13. 
TC(L) or TS(L) : 59492/59500/04/05/09/12/16/17/21 and 22. 
Just to complete the picture, Bachmann’s Blue and Grey set L426 117 was Allocated Bristol 1984/85. Reading 1986/87 and Tysley 1988. 

The Blue and Grey 121 55025 was Allocated Laira 1984/85. Reading 1986/87 and Old Oak Common 1988. 
Hope this information helps. 
66738

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21 hours ago, StuTheUseless said:

I say, here's fun, some side-by-side pictures of the Dapol 121 and the Bachmann 121. OK, they're not at the same angle, the lighting's rubbish, they're dusty, etc. etc. I've brightened the side-on one so you can see the underframe.

 

The guard's door handrails are different on each model, they're two separate rails on the Dapol model. The handrails on the cab are very different, much more prominent on the Bachmann. The Bachmann also has that excellent speedo cable. The Dapol cab has a slightly more angular look which I think might capture the appearance a tiny bit better.

 

 

121_1a.jpg

121_2a.jpg

121_3a.jpg

Great photos highlighting the differences between the Dapol and Bachmann 121’s. Just to be fair to Dapols example, it too has the speedo cable but it’s comes in a bag with the other pipes for the customer to fit. 
I really do like the new Bachmann 121, but my Dapol 55026 will look at home with the Dapol 122 on my forthcoming Western Region layout. I will stick with them. 
The 117 is absolutely glorious, and I fully intended on getting one upon release, but Covid has come along and swiped all overtime into the bin. None to be had at all. Will have to wait a while before I can save up enough!
66738

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52 minutes ago, 66738 said:

Looking in my Ian Allen ABC Multiple Unit book Printed Late Dec 1986, there were no 117’s allocated to Tysley and only 2 118 DMBS vehicles (M51308/9), 2 118 DMS vehicles (M51323/24) and 2 118 TC(L)/TS(L) vehicles (M59475/6). 
Looking at 1988’s book Printed 2nd January 1988, all the above 6 118 vehicles had moved on to Heaton. 118 vehicles new to Tysley were DMBS 51314/6, DMS 51329/31 and TS(L) 59478/81/83.
 

New to Tysley, 117 vehicles were DMBS 51334/38/39/48/52/53/60/64/65/69/70 and 71.

DMS : 51376/80/82/90/94/95/402/06/07/11/12/ and 13. 
TC(L) or TS(L) : 59492/59500/04/05/09/12/16/17/21 and 22. 
Just to complete the picture, Bachmann’s Blue and Grey set L426 117 was Allocated Bristol 1984/85. Reading 1986/87 and Tysley 1988. 

The Blue and Grey 121 55025 was Allocated Laira 1984/85. Reading 1986/87 and Old Oak Common 1988. 
Hope this information helps. 
66738

Very useful, thanks, pretty much as I suspected although I wasn't aware of the 118s having migrated to Tyseley in 1986.  I suspect I'm going to have to stretch Rule 1 or pretend it's a 118 to fit my 1986 timetable!

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25 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

Very useful, thanks, pretty much as I suspected although I wasn't aware of the 118s having migrated to Tyseley in 1986.  I suspect I'm going to have to stretch Rule 1 or pretend it's a 118 to fit my 1986 timetable!

It was the 118’s to Heaton alongside 116’s and 119’s that I wasn’t aware of. Everyday is a school day. 
66738

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3 hours ago, NIK said:

Hi,

 

Looks like a Class 118 to me (more curved  top to headcode box).

 

Nick

Yes, Set 465 was allocated to Cardiff and was a 118. Towards the end of the 80s and into the early 90s Cardiff did get other units as 116 were withdrawn. Additionally units from Bristol and other places would also venture into Wales. Class 117 were not unknown in Wales and there are quite a few photos of the Kernow  Class 117 unit in South Wales for instance, this photo by Geoff Dowling (https://www.flickr.com/photos/geoffsimages/) at Ebbw Junction (incorrectly labelled as a 116 on Flickr) of a service from Cardiff:

GWR livery class 116

 

A NSE 117 also made an early visit to South Wales as previously mentioned in this topic.

I have not ordered a 117 yet but my resistance is failing.

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13 hours ago, 89A said:

2037482531_465PONTYPRIDD1988.jpg.817bdeeb6603b1b37d2272287a775d74.jpgT465 at Pontypridd about 1990. These units were part of the Tren Y Cwm fleet for a number of years.

 

465 is a 118, I have a model of B465

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14 hours ago, BR Blue said:

Yes, Set 465 was allocated to Cardiff and was a 118. Towards the end of the 80s and into the early 90s Cardiff did get other units as 116 were withdrawn. Additionally units from Bristol and other places would also venture into Wales. Class 117 were not unknown in Wales and there are quite a few photos of the Kernow  Class 117 unit in South Wales for instance, this photo by Geoff Dowling (https://www.flickr.com/photos/geoffsimages/) at Ebbw Junction (incorrectly labelled as a 116 on Flickr) of a service from Cardiff:

GWR livery class 116

 

A NSE 117 also made an early visit to South Wales as previously mentioned in this topic.

I have not ordered a 117 yet but my resistance is failing.

The Choc and Cream 117 was Bristol based for the first few years, its full history was discussed on another thread. I hope Kernow/someone does a later version of that set with less yellow wrap around, dark grey roof, high intensity headlight, black around the cab windows and 117305 set number as per its later life in Kernow

 

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One happy customer here.

 

The order has arrived (minus the slightly-delayed b/g bubble car) meaning I can now enjoy BR green, GW150 and b/g 117s and the green plus GW150 bubble cars.  And a TPO van in the box for good measure ;)  

 

Regarding comments about the cost it may be worth noting that Bachmann has packed the 117s as 3-car units in their now-standard 4-car outer box.  They have included a complete empty inner and sleeve rather than just a block of poly-foam or similar which might be regarded as tidy or wasteful - or even both - but surely adds marginally to the total cost.  

 

A quick test of a 4-car GW150 combination shows them to run very smoothly together with good speed control.  I'll see how the lighting looks later when the sun isn't streaming into the room.  

 

Well worth the wait.  And with thanks to Kernow MRC for the impetus which got these models going, then taking the business decision to liaise with Bachmann and still retain their lovely GW150 livery as a commission.  

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20 hours ago, Philou said:

Can any kind soul who knows his/her stuff about 117s, tell me if any of these units worked out of Cardiff? It seems that I may need a 116, though the source I read was not specific where the 117s worked within the Western Region.

 

If you go on the railcar.co.uk, you can sort images by set number. This is a really handy feature to find photographic evidence of the 'C' prefixed Cardiff-allocated sets. The ones you want start on this page:

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/class-117/sets/13

 

In 1987 you had: C416, C422, C426, C450.

Late 70s/early 80s you had C451, C453.

 

Hondawanderer also has shots of C422 but on the Cotswold line: http://www.hondawanderer.com/Class_117_2.htm

 

Hope that helps!

 

Guy

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@lyneux Thanks for the link - I never knew about the site. What it has shown (to me) that the 117s allocated to Cardiff were mainly blue/grey ones, rather than green ones (I have a thing about the green period for diesels).

 

It's still a nice looking model and would make a good addition to my small Cardiff 'centric' collection. A re-numbering exercise would need be undertaken - but that's what modelling is about.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

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23 hours ago, lyneux said:

 

You're right WIll. The roof welds are really prominent. Compare the below photo from Hondawanderer with the StuTheUseless's photos above to see the difference.

 

The Bachmann vents look more to scale though than the malnourished Dapol ones...

 

Guy

 

http://www.hondawanderer.com/L400_Moreton-in-Marsh_1986_3.htm

 

L400_Moreton-in-Marsh_1986_3.jpg

 


I really don’t understand why Bachmann has such a problem with roof ribs. If Hornby could get them just about right on their first Mk1s  from the 1960s, surely with current tool cutting materials it should be possible to do as well if not better. But it seems not...

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It is disappointing, and I agree. Especially as this model has an RRP of over £300. It is a good runner and I love it. But areas of the model seem quite lazy, the clunky wipers and lack of roof ribs come to mind. At least it was a rather quick release, in Bachmann terms. 

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To be fair to Bachmann, they are weld lines rather than ribs (so are very very fine and don’t protrude far) but nevertheless their absence is quite noticeable.

 

I can see why you wouldn’t want to mould them but why not paint or tampo print them on?

 

Guy

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3 hours ago, brushman47544 said:


I really don’t understand why Bachmann has such a problem with roof ribs. If Hornby could get them just about right on their first Mk1s  from the 1960s, surely with current tool cutting materials it should be possible to do as well if not better. But it seems not...

This one comes up time and again. If you look closely at the real thing they are seam welded so some will have a very slight ridge but then it is ground flush. I suspect with age the weld corroded at a different rate to the material around it and may have required patching or sealing. If you look at old pictures there are no ribs and later ones look more like a patch paint job. There is a good picture in the Heyday of the DMU showing a 122 with a perfectly smooth roof. Personally I am happy with no ribs. 
 

Mark

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