Bachmann announce Class 117 and Class 121 at Collectors Club event

[caradoc]

I too hope and pray that as well as the 117 in plain BR blue, Bachmann can do a Class 116; Or at least, if not a full set, just one vehicle, the Welsh exile W50083 which spent many years at Reading !

 

[Andy W]

15 minutes ago, smithdom said:

I'm planning to model the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway, whose Class 117 is, I believe the one scanned for this offering. The one on the GWR is in a green livery (mostly) but has corridoor connections and head and tail lights. It seems from photos that the Bachmann 117 in green has neither whereas the blue & grey has both. Am I missing something?

https://www.gwsr.com/enthusiasts/miscellaneous/DMURailcar_1.html

When built, the 117s had no corridor connections between vehicles. These were added later, and Bachmann's green offering with speed whiskers is meant to be as-built. As far as I know (please correct if wrong), any 117s that were converted to have corridor connections and were still green also gained yellow panels instead of speed whiskers. The GWSR preserved unit was acquired with corridor connections, and they have never removed them, although the unit has been returned to green livery. So strictly speaking the GWSR livery is wrong for the cpndition of the unit.

By the time 117s were being painted into blue and grey, they had all been fitted with corridor connections.

[Coppercap]

20 minutes ago, smithdom said:

I'm planning to model the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway, whose Class 117 is, I believe the one scanned for this offering. The one on the GWR is in a green livery (mostly) but has corridoor connections and head and tail lights. It seems from photos that the Bachmann 117 in green has neither whereas the blue & grey has both. Am I missing something?

https://www.gwsr.com/enthusiasts/miscellaneous/DMURailcar_1.html

 

Think of a certain well-known LNER locomotive when it's in 'original' livery. The updates it has received over the years don't get removed...

[37114]

46 minutes ago, Andy W said:

When built, the 117s had no corridor connections between vehicles. These were added later, and Bachmann's green offering with speed whiskers is meant to be as-built. As far as I know (please correct if wrong), any 117s that were converted to have corridor connections and were still green also gained yellow panels instead of speed whiskers. The GWSR preserved unit was acquired with corridor connections, and they have never removed them, although the unit has been returned to green livery. So strictly speaking the GWSR livery is wrong for the cpndition of the unit.

By the time 117s were being painted into blue and grey, they had all been fitted with corridor connections.

The GWSR unit has yellow panels rather than whiskers so is accurate from that point but like a lot of preserved DMU's it retains the high intensity headlight which is obviously not....

[Gwiwer]

4 hours ago, The Johnster said:

A long distance journey requires toilet access from all seats in the train.  

That didn't seem to matter when 3H (class 205) Thumper units took over the Portsmouth - Bristol / Cardiff services.  Several hours with no toilet in two of the three coaches.  They even went to the expense of fitting "There are no toilet facilities in this coach" decals for the door droplights.  If you could read small print quickly as you boarded you had been warned!  

 

SR suburban stock made many quite lengthy runs with no toilets available to all or some passengers.  2Hap (one coach of two with toilets) and 2 / 4 EPB units (no toilets) had booked workings between Ramsgate / Margate and various London termini and in summer they returned with day-trippers rather than empty cars.  Vice versa in the afternoons.  That's well over two hours needing to hold on ..... not pretty if Little Johnny or Mary had been filled up with ice-cream and lemonade!

[Phil Bullock]

38 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

That didn't seem to matter when 3H (class 205) Thumper units took over the Portsmouth - Bristol / Cardiff services.  Several hours with no toilet in two of the three coaches.  They even went to the expense of fitting "There are no toilet facilities in this coach" decals for the door droplights.  If you could read small print quickly as you boarded you had been warned!  

 

SR suburban stock made many quite lengthy runs with no toilets available to all or some passengers.  2Hap (one coach of two with toilets) and 2 / 4 EPB units (no toilets) had booked workings between Ramsgate / Margate and various London termini and in summer they returned with day-trippers rather than empty cars.  Vice versa in the afternoons.  That's well over two hours needing to hold on ..... not pretty if Little Johnny or Mary had been filled up with ice-cream and lemonade!

Pity the Monday morning day after commuters! 

[Rich Papper]

Arrived home to a nice parcel from Rails this afternoon. Some pictures, initial thoughts and comparison.

 

Very nice cab detail.

 

DCC fitting was relatively easy even if the body did have to come off. There are no screws, only clips. The ones on the lower body are easy to get clear with just a fingernail but the ones on the sides of the cab bulkheads are a little stiffer - worth looking at the diagram on the instructions.

 

Saloon end comparison. L131 in the background is a Lima body on a Hornby chassis, and in an earlier version of the livery. Body shape of the Bachmann is definitely better, not so rounded at the tumblehome, which makes the cab front view a bit squarer. Like the destination blind (makes me realise mine needs a bigger resistor!), grab handles don't appear too chunky, but are mounted quite far out.

 

Van end view. Those exhaust pipes are far too clean. Even after a repaint I think they were only that colour for about a week! One note on DCC installation here: I've put the Bachmann chip in, and for some reason the on/off for the van end destination blind is on function 7 of my controller, 6 doesn't seem to do anything. Not sure why this is, all the other numbers conform to the numbers of the switches underneath for DC, but at least it works. Headcode box is wider on the Bachmann, making the exhausts a bit more antler-like.

 

Only one bit I'm not sure on. Why doesn't it have the 'Network SouthEast' wording on the van side? It wasn't in pictures people posted of pre-production samples, but I assumed they were just a bit on the bright side - the number in the white band is barely visible either. I've seen many pictures of the full logo, and a few with no logo (although most of these seem to be later tidies up of the older livery post privatisation), but I cannot recall seeing one with just the flashes and not the wording. Happy to be corrected.

 

All in all pretty happy though. Just waiting for the 117 to join it now.

Rich

 

PS On the toilet thing - I can remember being turned around by a jobsworth guard who wouldn't let me through to the toilet as a kid. I seem to recall I had just finished a large bucket of something fizzy from Wimpy - a most uncomfortable journey!

Edited June 29, 2020 by Rich Papper

[pheaton]

1 hour ago, Rich Papper said:

Arrived home to a nice parcel from Rails this afternoon. Some pictures, initial thoughts and comparison.

 

Very nice cab detail.

 

DCC fitting was relatively easy even if the body did have to come off. There are no screws, only clips. The ones on the lower body are easy to get clear with just a fingernail but the ones on the sides of the cab bulkheads are a little stiffer - worth looking at the diagram on the instructions.

 

Saloon end comparison. L131 in the background is a Lima body on a Hornby chassis, and in an earlier version of the livery. Body shape of the Bachmann is definitely better, not so rounded at the tumblehome, which makes the cab front view a bit squarer. Like the destination blind (makes me realise mine needs a bigger resistor!), grab handles don't appear too chunky, but are mounted quite far out.

 

Van end view. Those exhaust pipes are far too clean. Even after a repaint I think they were only that colour for about a week! One note on DCC installation here: I've put the Bachmann chip in, and for some reason the on/off for the van end destination blind is on function 7 of my controller, 6 doesn't seem to do anything. Not sure why this is, all the other numbers conform to the numbers of the switches underneath for DC, but at least it works. Headcode box is wider on the Bachmann, making the exhausts a bit more antler-like.

 

Only one bit I'm not sure on. Why doesn't it have the 'Network SouthEast' wording on the van side? It wasn't in pictures people posted of pre-production samples, but I assumed they were just a bit on the bright side - the number in the white band is barely visible either. I've seen many pictures of the full logo, and a few with no logo (although most of these seem to be later tidies up of the older livery post privatisation), but I cannot recall seeing one with just the flashes and not the wording. Happy to be corrected.

 

All in all pretty happy though. Just waiting for the 117 to join it now.

Rich

 

PS On the toilet thing - I can remember being turned around by a jobsworth guard who wouldn't let me through to the toilet as a kid. I seem to recall I had just finished a large bucket of something fizzy from Wimpy - a most uncomfortable journey!

I have just seen a picture that confirms L124 did not carry NSE branding....at that end of the body...the branding should be next to the carriage number at the other end of the unit

Edited June 29, 2020 by pheaton

[dibber25]

6 hours ago, 37114 said:

The GWSR unit has yellow panels rather than whiskers so is accurate from that point but like a lot of preserved DMU's it retains the high intensity headlight which is obviously not....

The GWSR unit also has yellow panels that are the wrong shape and size. No one, so far as I'm aware has restored a Pressed Steel 3-car to its original condition and livery correctly. There are the equivalent of a dozen units in preservation but only four railways with the correct vehicles for a three-car unit. The total is also skewed by a certain railway in South Devon that has several trailer composites and pretends they are GWR loco-hauled coaches, so they are not 'preserved' in the true sense of the word. I have just received my green unit - the Model Rail review sample was the blue and grey version - and it is really very nice. It's a bit shinier than the very flat drab green that I remember but as 'ex-works' it looks great BUT, should the inner end buffer beams be red? Surely they should be black?. (CJL)

Edited June 29, 2020 by dibber25

[The Stationmaster]

54 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

That didn't seem to matter when 3H (class 205) Thumper units took over the Portsmouth - Bristol / Cardiff services.  Several hours with no toilet in two of the three coaches.  They even went to the expense of fitting "There are no toilet facilities in this coach" decals for the door droplights.  If you could read small print quickly as you boarded you had been warned!  

 

SR suburban stock made many quite lengthy runs with no toilets available to all or some passengers.  2Hap (one coach of two with toilets) and 2 / 4 EPB units (no toilets) had booked workings between Ramsgate / Margate and various London termini and in summer they returned with day-trippers rather than empty cars.  Vice versa in the afternoons.  That's well over two hours needing to hold on ..... not pretty if Little Johnny or Mary had been filled up with ice-cream and lemonade!

The Pressed Steel units were definitely used on rail tours before they had gangways and I know they were used on workings with 30 minutes or more between station stops in the early 1960s.  Hampshire units, without gangways, also worked Reading - Southampton services and reading - Portsmouth Harbour at one time.

[dibber25]

18 hours ago, caradoc said:

I too hope and pray that as well as the 117 in plain BR blue, Bachmann can do a Class 116; Or at least, if not a full set, just one vehicle, the Welsh exile W50083 which spent many years at Reading !

 

You mean this one? (CJL)

[Phil Bullock]

15 hours ago, Richard Croft said:

Here's a class 117 which I have been fitting with sound over the weekend. Its a very high quality, well detailed model

 

 

Richard

Nice. Is that the original as fitted speakers Richard?

[Flittersnoop]

Has anyone else had problems with these models making a whining noise like a low-budget UFO from a 1950s sci-fi film, please?

 

My green Class 117 runs fine, but very definitely not silently. Given the price tag I suspect I will be returning it to the shop to try to swap it for a quieter one.

[Legend]

23 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Regettably, I reckon the presence of this (excellent) RTR high density dmu will corner the market; and render the idea of a 116 or 118 less likely.  The 116 would, IMHO, have been a much better choice on the basis of numbers built and geographical spread, but I think the attraction for Bachmann may have dimmed a little with the realisation that there are different cab front profiles and two varieties of trailer car, an all second and a composite.  

 

When this unit was first announced it was by Kernow (4 or 5 years ago maybe?). They were going to produce 116 and 117 units .  I can't remember if it was always Bachmann that was to be the manufacturer . Anyway, some time after the project was taken over by Bachmann and the 116 was quietly dropped .  This seems a shame as to me the 116 was more geographically spread  and I would have liked a Scottish one, but they were also in the Midlands and in the Valleys  . I used to see them at Glasgow Central on East Kilbride, Barrhead , Edinburgh via Shotts and Paisley Canal  trains .  I know 117s came to Scotland in later life to work the Fife Circle but that was in later Regional Railways guise . So its always been a disappointment to me after quite a bit of time  we ended up with only the 117. That said it does look a lovely unit . Had it have been a 116 I would have been severely conflicted but probably would have ended up splashing the cash for one .  If they can do a 116 its going to be some time off I think.

[BR Blue]

Kernow did say they intended to do other classes but obviously Bachmann took over the project after that and have never stated any further intentions.  However, I think a 116 will follow in future. The way modern tooling is made I am sure Bachmann have planned for variations.

[Geep7]

I wonder how quickly an all blue and green with syp versions will follow after these, along with RR and refurbished white liveries? I'm sorely tempted by the Blue & Grey and the NSE ones (mainly because I saw these on a day to day basis from my bedroom window), but are completely out of period for my layout, so I keep thinking should I hold out until an all blue one appears (if they ever do of course), or bite the bullet with these. It's the same thing with when the 2-Hap finally appears. Yes, I could of course go the respray route, but on a £300 model, i'm not sure I could stomach that, I still haven't weathered my Kernow 4-TC yet....

[Gwiwer]

1 hour ago, BR Blue said:

Kernow did say they intended to do other classes but obviously Bachmann took over the project after that and have never stated any further intentions.  However, I think a 116 will follow in future. The way modern tooling is made I am sure Bachmann have planned for variations.

The version I recall is that Kernow MRC announced the project which initially included the now-released 117s and 121s but with opinions sounded for more liveries and 116 / 118 variants.  I believe  KMRC also announced green syp and blue fye versions which Bachmann has not (yet) offered.  

 

KMRC then stated in a press release or maybe their weekly newsletter that they "had become aware" that Bachmann was working on the same project and that it was in both parties' interests to pool knowledge and resources.  To my mind that is what happened which is different to Bachmann "taking over" the project.  

 

KMRC at the time had numerous commissions lined up with Dave Jones / DJModels so an educated guess might be that DJ would have been the actual manufacturer but with the products under KMRC's own brand name as has occurred with some other items.   Other KMRC items have been produced for them directly in China as I understand it.

 

As events have unfolded we can perhaps thank fate that two reputable businesses happened to be in the early stages of the same products and came to a sensible commercial arrangement.   

 

Despite the price tag which has unfortunately squeezed out the lower end of the potential market I suspect there will be more versions announced before too long including one or more of the popular liveries which have not yet appeared.  It would not take too much work to produce 116 / 118 from the tooling and other closely-similar types also.  The 115  and 127, for example, might require all-new underframes due to their power units being very different but never say never.  

[Gopher]

4 hours ago, Richard Croft said:

No its got a 25x25x7 at each end 

 

Richard

Richard

 

 how easy is it to access the speakers to replace them with  25x25x7s ?  I assume the new speakers fit in the same space and just need wires soldered to connect them.  Looking at my own model -  I want to replace the speakers with something with a bit more oomph.  To do so - it looks as if I will have to remove the passenger cabin floor.   

 

Thanks

 

Gopher 

 

[dibber25]

On 29/06/2020 at 14:41, Pteremy said:

 

I hope you are wrong. Today manufacturers are much more willing to consider variations on a theme, be it liveries or relatively slight prototypical changes or differences, than they were when Lima produced their 117. Of course there has to be money in it for them. But I reckon that the 116/117/118/121/122/149/150 family offers a good opportunity for someone. 

 

On the mystery tour, as it is a rule 1 journey there will be plenty of scope to include appropriate refreshment/comfort stops in the timetable.......

The more variations you make, the more complex the tools become - the more expensive, the more prone to failure, and the more obvious the change of slides on the finished model. If it's just a different combination of roof and side, then you might do it but if it starts involving  end corners on the same tool, it can't bee done and you have to have a complete second tool. The cost of tooling these days post-Covid and the collapse of exchange rates is truly eye-watering. (CJL)

[Lyddrail]

Regards the NSE flash and no wording on the side, the photo used by Bachmann (I think) of the prototype looks like the wording is missing. It is a low res pic so it is not as clear as you would want. Dapols NSE version L127 also has a flash with no wording too. The Hatton's livery diagram shows this was the plan. I don't have enough photographs to confirm these issue.

Cheers.

[Rich Papper]

1 hour ago, Lyddrail said:

Regards the NSE flash and no wording on the side, the photo used by Bachmann (I think) of the prototype looks like the wording is missing. It is a low res pic so it is not as clear as you would want. Dapols NSE version L127 also has a flash with no wording too. The Hatton's livery diagram shows this was the plan. I don't have enough photographs to confirm these issue.

Cheers.

 

Completely happy to agree - but who doesn't like a bit of detective work? None of these pictures are mine, so thank you to all concerned.

 

Earliest is this: http://www.hondawanderer.com/55024_L401_Waltham_St_Lawrence_1989.htm - 2nd June 1989.

 

This one: https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelwadman/39340466861/ I'm sure I saw as part of the promotional stuff at some point - 21st July 1989.

 

Next: https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/15007 has gained the Thames badge - circa October 1989.

 

Then: https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/1735 not quite clear enough. To my eye there is something right of the guards door, but speculation as to what - January 1990.

 

Then a bit of a gap until: https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/3063 where it has the lot - 17th April 1992

 

Anyone have one to fill the gap? I think my confusion arose as the blue on the model looks closest to the darker shade in the 1992 pic, but comparing it to my Bachmann NSE 108 it is paler than that. I know the shades of NSE blue / memory / eyesight / film type conversation is a whole can of worms that we probably don't need on this thread! Long and the short is that the decoration as supplied is right though.

 

I'm off to see how many of these combinations I can put together.

Rich

 

 

 

[stationroad]

edit - Rich said it better!

Edited June 30, 2020 by stationroad

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

does anyone have a recommended source of replacement buffers for the blue/grey 121? I've concluded that the squared ovals are just wrong for that unit with that P125 "set" number.

[aureol40012]

I don’t suppose anyone knows if this is a new sound file, or is it the generic 1st gen DMU one?  It’s a Plux22 chip so is obviously being targeted at this model.

 

https://cheltenhammodelcentre.com/dcc-sound-decoders~1065-c/class-117-dmu-sound-decoder~dcc117-k1-p.html

[pheaton]

Cheltenham model centre dont currently make there own sound files, they normally load with biffo's