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Bachmann announce Class 117 and Class 121 at Collectors Club event


Andy Y
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3 hours ago, Rich Papper said:

I've nearly finished building a 119 so naturally I'm expecting the announcement of one any time now!

 

I am just a bit of glazing and finishing the motor bogie away on mine

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On tail loads there are three examples in Kevin Robertson's First Generation DMUs:

 

p25 2 car 108 set with SR PMV (on way to Bletchley, 8/61)

p40 3 car 120 set with LMS (?) Stove R (on way to Hereford, 6/58)

p66 Pair of 122 singles with 2 milk tanks, crossing Royal Albert Bridge bound for Plymouth (4/62)

 

And two slightly more recent examples in Brian Morrisons British Rail DMUs:

 

p72 3 car 104 set with SR (?) PMV (on way to Ipswich, 6/79)

p188 3 car 120 + 122 single with 12T Insulated Fish Van (on way to Aberdeen, 6/79)

 

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Hi,

 

I'm just finishing running in my Class 117 on a circular test track (on DC).

 

I've noticed the current is not going down noticeably as the unit is run. Usually with other loco/units the current comes down towards the end of the running in period.

 

Whether this means the gears are using a good lubricant or the motors are not getting warm I don't know. They are certainly drawing about half the current each of a Bachmann steam outline loco, although they presumably have more friction due to drive couplings and extra gears.

 

Top speed after running in (when supplied by Gaugemaster LT set to max) was a scale 75mph (no centre coach).

 

Regards

 

Nick

Edited by NIK
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On 01/07/2020 at 11:54, Coppercap said:

 

So I take it this uncaptioned location is Staines West? ;)

 

On 01/07/2020 at 11:32, dibber25 said:

Staying off topic for a further moment, I'm afraid that some (perhaps even 'many') photographers didn't care particularly about the details, their priority was the picture. For every one who logged all the details in his notebook (Casserley, Mensing etc) there was one who didn't. The great George Heiron was one of the worst - his 'captions' often just a poetic "such and such talks to the sky" (which you could see from the picture anyway, and nothing about when, where or what it was. Then, there were those who gave a location as St. Hilda's crossing or such - somewhere that's not on any railway map and with no clue what line it was on, never mind between which stations. Figuring that out was one of the challenges of being an editor. But to return to the 117s, my memories of the early 1960s are that some Pressed Steels (they weren't 117s until much later) had marker lights and lining and some didn't. The dark green became dull and drab very quickly and the satin finish on the Bachmann model is very much ex-works, new. I'm sure I've posted this before, but here's one in absolutely original condition - no lights, no lining, and the roof dome is cream - a perfect match to the station valancing. It might be white that's discoloured, of course, but it's cream, nevertheless. Doesn't make quite such an attractive proposition as the later, lined and lights, version depicted by Bachmann. And, so far, I still haven't been able to find out if Bachmann's red inner buffer beams are correct or not. (CJL)

117 at Staines.jpeg

Memory, especially 60 year old memory plays tricks on us but I remember the roof dome ends around the headcode box on the 3 car sets as being in a sort of neutral fibre glass colour which would match fairly closely a cream painted canopy valancing as your photo shows.  And equally I recall that from new the later delivered sets were indeed lined and had marker lights  - it also sticks in my mind for some reason (no, I'm not thinking of the SPCs).  My photo of an original set is in black & white so obviously the colours don't show but it too was unlined and in fairly new condition because the legend about  ATC clip up etc on the bufferbeam was still completely legible and not obscured by dirt (see below)

 

Early cars however seem to have acquired lining relatively quickly.  W51332 is shown in a picture in the 1962/63 Combined Volume fully lined although the other two cars in the set are clearly not lined.

 

 

736039549_PRESSEDSTEELUNITATTWYFORD1959.jpg.69318e94db3c86d5675bf5f197d47e49.jpg

Edited by The Stationmaster
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What’s the thinking behind the 2 different sound projects Charlie? There are pros and cons with both of them as I see it;

+ gear change - toilet flush

 

V

 

 + AWS warnings - lack of gear change?

 

Griff

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And a second question for you. Both your options come with one speaker, is there a particular type of speaker you would choose to replace the two Bachmann ones included in the model?

 

Thanks

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2 hours ago, griffgriff said:

What’s the thinking behind the 2 different sound projects Charlie? There are pros and cons with both of them as I see it;

+ gear change - toilet flush

 

V

 

 + AWS warnings - lack of gear change?

 

Griff

Based on feedback we get, some like the F7 Legomanbiffo Manual Gear change, others do not, the two projects are aimed at giving variety as if you have all your DMU's sounding the same it gets boring!! Again some like the toilet flushing sound, others think its pointless, so cannot please everyone, but I am trying to!!!

 

The Wheeltappers DMU has automatic gear change (So you do nothing), and has a superb 'Rasping Exhaust' in gear three and four on full power.   If customers with smaller layouts want the speed reducing to bring in Gear three & four earlier, we have a comments section on the Website when ordering to 'Request this personal option'

 

Legomanbiffo is creating another DMU project. totally different from the two currently listed to add even more variety, with a fourth on planned too!!!

 

Charlie (dckits-Legomanbiffo)

Edited by charliepetty
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2 hours ago, BR Blue said:

And a second question for you. Both your options come with one speaker, is there a particular type of speaker you would choose to replace the two Bachmann ones included in the model?

 

Thanks

Either Larger speakers inside the carriages, which can be seen through the windows of two good sugarcube speakers.

 

See:  https://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=223_75&product_id=379

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You will be pleased to read that Rails have just delivered my green class 117 diesel multiple unit ready for the Swanage to Wareham service next year, These units also visited the Swanage Railway in British Rail days and went on the Weymouth to Bristol service and on the last train to Bridport in blue livery. I enjoyed travelling on them and looking into the driver's cab.

P1100649.JPG

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8 hours ago, charliepetty said:

the two projects are aimed at giving variety as if you have all your DMU's sounding the same it gets boring!!

 

 

I couldn't agree more, that's why for ZIMO I have individual sound projects for Class 101, 105, 108, 109, 117 and 121 which use different sound recordings appropriate to each class.

 

Each of them allows either fully automatic gear changing or manual gear changing on the same decoder, so any user can decide how they wish to operate their DMU gear changing from minute to minute without being tied to one method or the other.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

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I put a Lenz Silver+ chip into my 117. The DMS leads when I run it forwards, which I thought a bit strange but on reflection it doesn't really matter which direction it runs. I timed it running a  few times round my layout at top speed, and the average speed works out at 78 scale miles per hour. I'm wondering whether to put a sound chip into it. 

 

I also would like a (couple of) class 116(s).

Edited by Budgie
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If you prefer to have the DMBS leading when your controller shows 'forward', read the value in CV29.

if it's an odd number, subtract 1 and re-enter, if its an even number, add 1 and re-enter. But, as you say, does it matter?

 

if you fit a sound decoder, I agree with other recommendations that it will benefit from improved installation of the speakers (there's one in each powered car).

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

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Thank you for the comments about dcc. I am still on analogue and I have just tested my class 117 dmu on a Hornby trackmat with Hornby points and a minimum radius of 17". I found it hard to couple the coaches together and to uncouple them and I ended up laying the unit on its side.  In the process I lost some of the tiny parts in the plastic bag.  Life seemed much easier with a Lima dmu with Hornby type couplings.  The Bachmann 117 ran very well. It was silent, responded well to the controls and did not stall on any of the points.  I liked the illuminated cabs.

P1100657.JPG

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On 01/07/2020 at 16:46, Zunnan said:

 

My one concern with the Bachmann drivetrain is that to fit those motors into the bogies and with such a low current draw even when stalled, they have to be very small, so I wouldn't want to add too much of a trailing load.

 

I'd leave the motor and drivetrain in and strip out the idler gears to the axles of the Dapol model with the motor disconnested. Less rolling resistance than just pulling the driveshafts and motor, much less work than stripping it down to get at the motor, and easier to reinstate.

Hi,

 

I think the motors may be coreless so may be more efficient than iron cored motors. So they may be able to pull some trailing load.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

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36 minutes ago, NIK said:

Hi,

 

I think the motors may be coreless so may be more efficient than iron cored motors. So they may be able to pull some trailing load.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

When I tested the current draw of my units, I was surprised at how easy it was to stall them and just how little torque they have. The lightweight nature of these models certainly plays into consideration here. The motors are definitely coreless, their characteristics are near identical to those in recent Farish models I have, which would fit happily into a 00 bogie drive with adequate gearing. I'd be highly surprised if the motor isn't the same or at least heavily based upon those used in Farish models, which are tried and tested; I have two coreless Farish models with 170+ hours clocked on them in exhibition use, and a few more that are over 100 hours.

 

The 117 will certainly take a prototypical trailing load or a second trailer, but a stripped down Dapol bubble car with the geartrain intact I think would be a little much if operated for a period of time; with idler gears pulled they are a lot more freewheeling so would be a more user friendly trailing load.

 

My Farish coreless models don't get so kindly treated, they run with trailing loads of 10+ coaches that have more drag than the 117. They are more than adequate for their intended use with this twin motor setup, but I won't be asking much more of my own units than to haul themselves. Perhaps a single PMV in tow at most as things currently stand. If a 3 car 116 ever materialises then a TC declassified to TS will make an appearance for a 4 car set (hint hint Bachmann!).

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Not had my 117s apart to get at the motors be honest. I'll have to pull one apart to satisfy my curiosity but that looks very similar to the motor fitted in the Farish class 08 and the tender drives. That predates the coreless motors, but its still an efficient and effective little unit that will take some abuse. It would make sense to use them too as they are a current motor in the Farish range as well as others so are readily available and are tried and tested.

 

If it is one and the same, I've had some commutator failures in high hours models with these at 200+ hours and also from tight tolerances with mounting screws after servicing or replacements; overtightened screws can interfere with the armature which I've had happen in the past. Not a major issue, just back the screw(s) off until it clears the armature unless the motor then sits loose, in which case some filing is a good idea to shorten the offending screw usually does the trick. But that looks like a clip fit to its cradle rather than screw mount, which hopefully negates the mounting screws. It has to be said, my tender drives get some major stick to induce failures. Loaded up with 30g extra weight (a lot for N gauge models) and often running all day long at exhibitions with 40-50 wagons in tow.

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On ‎03‎/‎07‎/‎2020 at 10:23, BR Blue said:

And a second question for you. Both your options come with one speaker, is there a particular type of speaker you would choose to replace the two Bachmann ones included in the model?

Thanks

On ‎03‎/‎07‎/‎2020 at 14:33, charliepetty said:

Either Larger speakers inside the carriages, which can be seen through the windows of two good sugarcube speakers.

See:  https://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=223_75&product_id=379

 

Is the sound really that bad with the Bachmann speakers?

 

I was hoping for a straightforward decoder only installation with no speaker wires to worry about.

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1 hour ago, 89A said:

 

 

Is the sound really that bad with the Bachmann speakers?

 

I was hoping for a straightforward decoder only installation with no speaker wires to worry about.

No the sound is not that bad.  All relative of course.  I installed a Zimo Plux22 decoder with a Digitrains sound project.  Just had to crank up the master volume.  I think the sound with the original speakers is perfectly acceptable, but could be improved with different speakers.  All in the ear of the beholder (or something like that)     

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On 01/07/2020 at 10:57, The Stationmaster said:

Going slightly OT I really wish that photographer would caption his photos correctly.  He hasn't got the name of the location correct (it is Ruscombe, complete with Ruscombe church visible in the background, barely half a mile in a straight line, Waltham St Lawrence is over 2 miles away and isn't a railway location in any sense of the word).  If photographers can't get location details correct I'm sometimes left wondering about the accuracy of other detail in their caption and he has got book captions wrong in the past.

 

Regrettably this particular photographer, while taking some excellent quality photos  seems to make a habit of not getting location details right, especially in that area.

That's on my patch, the photograph is taken from Milley Bridge and the last house in Waltham St Lawrence on Milley Road is actually next to the bridge and The Bell Inn less than a mile down the road. Most photters would recognise that location as Waltham St Lawrence, I've never heard anyone call it Ruscombe. Ruscombe church is 1¼ miles away adjacent to Southbury Lane, the tall bridge in the background which for some reason I always tag as Ruscombe rather than Southbury Lane.

 

There were some wonderful combinations of units in their final days before the Turbo takeover and not just 117/121 but also various bits of 101/104/108/115 and even a 119/121 combo. If it worked it got used and whenever they ran out of DMUs there were locos plus short rakes of coaches.

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1 hour ago, emdpowerrules said:

That's on my patch, the photograph is taken from Milley Bridge and the last house in Waltham St Lawrence on Milley Road is actually next to the bridge and The Bell Inn less than a mile down the road. Most photters would recognise that location as Waltham St Lawrence, I've never heard anyone call it Ruscombe. Ruscombe church is 1¼ miles away adjacent to Southbury Lane, the tall bridge in the background which for some reason I always tag as Ruscombe rather than Southbury Lane.

 

There were some wonderful combinations of units in their final days before the Turbo takeover and not just 117/121 but also various bits of 101/104/108/115 and even a 119/121 combo. If it worked it got used and whenever they ran out of DMUs there were locos plus short rakes of coaches.

Sorry but it is Ruscombe with Ruscombe church very clearly visible in the background.  And yes it's my patch - both inside and outside the railway fence - over many years.  In that view you can not only see Ruscombe loop but the site of Ruscombe signal box and it has been shown, correctly, as Ruscombe in every edition of the Quail atlas going back for nearly 30 years and there is (still I presume) a nameboard alongside the railway identifying the location).  There is no such location as Waltham St Lawrence on the GWML and never has been although there was Waltham Siding, now identified as Waltham, over 3 miles east of Ruscombe; between the two there was Shottesbrook although that ceased to be a formally identified railway location in the early 1960s.    There are plenty of decent sources available to check stuff like this, particularly locations such as Ruscombe, where there is more infrastructure than plain running lines so there isn't really any excuse for getting location details wrong.

 

Back to Pressed Steel DMU land.

Edited by The Stationmaster
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