Bachmann announce Class 117 and Class 121 at Collectors Club event

[robertcwp]

21 hours ago, 89A said:

 

I think the 108 tooling was a good representation generally.

 

The fact that Bachamnn were able to offer alternative cab fronts for the 108 suggested that there were either separate moulds or alternative inserts for the cab fronts as per the 37, 40 etc. nose fronts.

 

 I just wondered whether those moulds could be reused and would suit the 117 body profile.

 

If the cab fronts are all new tooling as suggested I hope that the ability to offer alternatives as on the 108 has been considered.

The 117/121 body profile is different. The 108 bodyside was a continuous arc like a Mark 1, but with the windows lower down, whereas the 117/121 had a flat, or more or less flat upper part (tapering in slightly towards the top) and a curved profile lower down. The open door on this 121 illustrates it:

 

W55021_Paddington by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[Class 158 productions]

I could see kernow maybe doing a 118, but they are doing a special edition 117 so they might not

[Class 158 productions]

They could do one, but they might be focusing on other products 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Class 158 productions
Duplicate

[vikingsmb]

On 09/05/2020 at 20:12, robertcwp said:

I wish they would!

same here, esp for my late 60's western region layout, (using lima ones at mo which are actually ok) 

I notice they dont seem to cater for the plain blue pre tops era much, and both manufacturers are guilty of this. 

Need a 118 in blue and 116 in blue.

Edited May 24, 2020 by vikingsmb
spelling

[robertcwp]

14 minutes ago, vikingsmb said:

same here, esp for my late 60's western region layout, (using lima ones at mo which are actually ok) 

I notice they dont seem to cater for the plain blue pre tops era much, and both manufacturers are guilty of this. 

Need a 118 in blue and 116 in blue.

When I asked someone from Bachmann about this, they said liveries for that era do not sell well. 

 

However, 117s were blue for around 10-13 years so that is a pretty long span, probably longer than any were green.

[vikingsmb]

yes however they need to cater for that era as well, 

 

I agree blue was around a long time. 

[brushman47544]

3 hours ago, robertcwp said:

When I asked someone from Bachmann about this, they said liveries for that era do not sell well.

That’s what gets my goat a bit. If they are doing a production run covering, say, three different liveries, who says each livery has to have the same number produced? If one livery doesn’t sell as well but is still popular, simply produce fewer of that and more of the others so the overall number is still going to give a good return. 
 

For BR blue Bcahmann’s criteria must be very different to others such as Dapol and Heljan, who seem happy to produce various versions of BR blue at the same time - take the current Heljan Class 27s - without complaining they don’t sell. 
 

Bachmann’s sales model gives the impression in general that less popular liveries are produced first, so sell to the “l must have the first ones produced irrespective of livery”, and then the more popular ones come later. DMUs in green SYP appear much more popular that green with whiskers, but which does Bachmann always produce first - Class 101, 108, 205 and now 117 and 121 as well?

Edited May 24, 2020 by brushman47544

[robertcwp]

1 hour ago, brushman47544 said:

Bachmann’s sales model gives the impression in general that less popular liveries are produced first, so sell to the “l must have the first ones produced irrespective of livery”, and then the more popular ones come later. DMUs in green SYP appear much more popular that green with whiskers, but which does Bachmann always produce first - Class 101, 108, 205 and now 117 and 121 as well?

They certainly do that with some types of carriage, think of the porthole stock which took ages to come out in maroon. They haven't even announced Thompson stock in maroon yet. 

 

A retailer did tell me a few years ago that for DMUs green with speed whiskers was the best selling livery.

[adb968008]

4 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

 

Bachmann’s sales model gives the impression in general that less popular liveries are produced first, so sell to the “l must have the first ones produced irrespective of livery”, and then the more popular ones come later.

In the good old days of stackem high, sell em cheap that worked.

in these lesser produced / higher price / long lead times I’m not sure that’s conducive to maximising the ROI from the tooling, especially when it’s a retool.

Edited May 24, 2020 by adb968008

[dpearce]

Does anyone have any insider knowledge as to when to expect these? I note that the general message is 'June' but I'm interested as to when that'll be!

 

Cheers!

 

[westie7]

If anyone has Twitter, see Nigel Burkins feed for photos

[aureol40012]

3 minutes ago, westie7 said:

If anyone has Twitter, see Nigel Burkins feed for photos

Have you got a link for those who don’t?

 

cheers

 

Jake

[Markwj]

4 hours ago, dpearce said:

Does anyone have any insider knowledge as to when to expect these? I note that the general message is 'June' but I'm interested as to when that'll be!

 

Cheers!

 

Recently it seems Hornby and Bachmann have informed the shops when stock is due and the shops have released an email to say what is due shortly to encourage orders. I haven't yet seen one for these models so it could be a couple of weeks still but obviously this isn't a hard and fast rule.

[PJ10]

Hi,

 

Fingers crossed this link will work

 

https://twitter.com/railexpress?lang=en

 

PJ10

[mdvle]

For those who come looking in the future when they are no longer at the top of the twitter feed

 

 

[lyneux]

Perhaps it's just me, but the enormous connector between units is massively off-putting. If I get one of these, that is going to have to come off. What on earth are all those pins for? I'd have thought 3-4 pins max should suffice for lighting. Separate DCC decoders might be the way to go.

 

Guy

[Geep7]

40 minutes ago, lyneux said:

Perhaps it's just me, but the enormous connector between units is massively off-putting. If I get one of these, that is going to have to come off. What on earth are all those pins for? I'd have thought 3-4 pins max should suffice for lighting. Separate DCC decoders might be the way to go.

 

Guy

They're the same coupling to the one that's on the Kernow / Bachmann 4-TC.

 

Once coupled up and on the layout, yes, they are large, and agree that they could be a little smaller, but I wouldn't say they detract too much. They do help the whole unit stay stable when being propelled as well.

 

I would think the 6 pins are for all wheel pickup (2), directional headlights / headcode box (2), interior lights (1), lighting common return (1). Which I believe is what's in the TC as well.

[lyneux]

2 minutes ago, Geep7 said:

They're the same coupling to the one that's on the Kernow / Bachmann 4-TC.

 

Once coupled up and on the layout, yes, they are large, and agree that they could be a little smaller, but I wouldn't say they detract too much. They do help the whole unit stay stable when being propelled as well.

 

I would think the 6 pins are for all wheel pickup (2), directional headlights / headcode box (2), interior lights (1), lighting common return (1). Which I believe is what's in the TC as well.

 

Makes sense, but the old two-pin coupling bar that fits in a NEM pocket (in use on e.g. the Bachmann 150, 101 etc) was much neater. It also had a stabilising effect but without the visual bulk. Counting the pins, there are 14 on the new coupling!  The Bachmann 101 manages interior lights and directional lighting all from 2 pins. Granted, the interior lights are only switchable via the bottom of the unit.

 

If they had used the 2-pin coupling, it would have the added benefit of being able to create hybrid sets such as this (ok it's a 118, but you get the point):

 

 

 

 

[Geep7]

22 minutes ago, lyneux said:

 

Makes sense, but the old two-pin coupling bar that fits in a NEM pocket (in use on e.g. the Bachmann 150, 101 etc) was much neater. It also had a stabilising effect but without the visual bulk. Counting the pins, there are 14 on the new coupling!  The Bachmann 101 manages interior lights and directional lighting all from 2 pins. Granted, the interior lights are only switchable via the bottom of the unit.

 

If they had used the 2-pin coupling, it would have the added benefit of being able to create hybrid sets such as this (ok it's a 118, but you get the point):

 

 

 

 

I agree, it will be a shame that to create hybrid units you'd have to hack about a £300 model.

 

Having lived right next to the Reading - Guildford line for the best part of 20 years from the late 1980s, I remember seeing the many different formations Reading depot put out, just to try and keep the services running until the Turbos came on stream. I think I recall seeing one set running round with a 117 DMS, a 101 TSL and a 104 DMBS. It was extremely common in the NSE era to see a 121 in place of a 121 DMBS.

[Rich Papper]

1 hour ago, lyneux said:

Perhaps it's just me, but the enormous connector between units is massively off-putting. If I get one of these, that is going to have to come off. What on earth are all those pins for? I'd have thought 3-4 pins max should suffice for lighting. Separate DCC decoders might be the way to go.

 

Guy

 

Completely agree. My last few home-bashed DMU sets have had a decoder in each vehicle. Cheap ones from eBay or Hattons, but I've not had any issues with them. By the time one gets all the connectors and close coupling system it isn't really that much more expensive (in fact I think I've built the last three sets in their entirety for less than this will cost me!!).

 

Rich

[lyneux]

As a (software) engineer, I've gotten used to appraising solutions as 'elegant' or 'clunky'. This is definitely in the 'clunky' category and stuff like 'all wheel pickup' being cited as a driver for this is bordering on a 'solution looking for a problem'. Since when were pickups 8 wheels not enough?

 

Still, the rest of it looks very nice and I look forward to adding one or two to the collection in due course.

 

Guy

Edited June 5, 2020 by lyneux

[Gwiwer]

1 hour ago, Geep7 said:

They're the same coupling to the one that's on the Kernow / Bachmann 4-TC.

 

Once coupled up and on the layout, yes, they are large, and agree that they could be a little smaller, but I wouldn't say they detract too much. They do help the whole unit stay stable when being propelled as well.

 

I would think the 6 pins are for all wheel pickup (2), directional headlights / headcode box (2), interior lights (1), lighting common return (1). Which I believe is what's in the TC as well.

And if the 117 is anything like the 4TC those large couplers will barely be visible once the thing is railed and running.  I have no problem at all with the 4TC and find it runs better than, say, four loose-coupled Mk1 coaches with standard Bachmann loop couplers.  And very close too without the need to convert to Hunt couplers and losing the through-routed electrics by doing so.  

[Gwiwer]

1 hour ago, Geep7 said:

it will be a shame that to create hybrid units you'd have to hack about a £300 model.

Yes true. In their younger days it was unusual to see a 117 in anything other than intended formation.  The 121 bubble-cars were used as replacement power cars at times but were in demand for their own normal duties too.  It is only since the units aged and became less reliable, alongside the reduction generally in bubble-car duties following branch-line closures that hybrids became more common. Southall turned out a few goodies in the Thames Valley with one or other 117 driving coaches replaced by a bubble car and on one occasion a bubble-car either side of a 117 trailer.  Bubble plus driving trailer plus 117 driver was another version with the 117 coach coupled at either end of the formation which could therefore be formed in at least eight different ways.  

 

Four blue class 101 trailers replaced the Hawksworth stock on designated rosters making up 4-car units which were supposed to stick to those rosters due to the lower power:weight ratio available.  IIRC those 101 trailers might have arrived in lined green.  

 

117 units or individual vehicles could multiple with any other "blue star" DMU so as types previously unfamiliar to the Thames Valley were drafted in so we saw 117+104 formations and two-car units formed of a pair of 117 drivers or one with  bubble-car.  

 

In some locations two-car units were the norm.  The Gunnislake branch was always a power-twin though not always a 117.  The GW150 unit worked the St. Ives branch regularly after its arrival from Tyseley first as a three-car unit then as a two-car after trailer 59520 was withdrawn and dumped in Long Rock yard.  All four GW150 vehicles operated together on the branch on rare occasions with the bubble providing the necessary additional summer capacity.  The later 2-car GW150 was also paired with other 2-car units for summer service which included other 117s or 101s though I never saw a 108 go down the branch.  

 

Modelling ingenuity will surely allow those of us desperate to run hybrids being able to do so without, hopefully, too much hacking about.  Whether a 117 will look right against its stable-mate 101 from a few years back is yet to be determined.  

[Class 158 productions]

My 158s both have them, a hassle to connect but they make it stable. However compared to the 150/350/101 style it does look incredibly large 

[robertcwp]

6 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

And if the 117 is anything like the 4TC those large couplers will barely be visible once the thing is railed and running.  I have no problem at all with the 4TC and find it runs better than, say, four loose-coupled Mk1 coaches with standard Bachmann loop couplers.  And very close too without the need to convert to Hunt couplers and losing the through-routed electrics by doing so.  

Not with the green ones without gangways. I think the couplings will be very visible then. Won't put me off of having one though.