Bachmann announce Class 117 and Class 121 at Collectors Club event

[Andy Y]

But then compare that with Bachmann - a couple of things well advanced, and almost everything else stuck in the first column. This suggests to me that there might be something else going on, perhaps equivalent to those supermarkets who excessively "land bank" - they have no intention of developing the land they're buying, but they want to stop the other supermarkets from getting their hands on it. Either that, or Bachmann UK are in even bigger trouble than we might have thought.

 

 

I don't believe there's anything so sinister at play; what has been indicated to me is that there are a substantial number of completed design folders for projects within Bachmann Europe which exceeds the capacity that the CAD design for tooling stage in China could handle whilst factory relocations and transitions took place integrating different factories and departments into one etc.  It's quite likely that a comprehensively completed design folder might leap frog another into the design office that's incomplete and progress quicker through the next stages. Hence this year's announcements were to a degree consolidation and creating the opportunity to catch up.

[wombatofludham]

AC electrics did work alongside steam in the north-west and north Midlands.  I've got a wonderful DVD showing brand new AL6 locos with half-yellow warning panels at the head of blue/grey Mk2 and Manchester Pullman stock at Stoke-on-Trent being passed by ex-LMS 8fs and BR Standard steam (in a filthy state) on freights, as well as green diesels and dmus.  Even when BR theoretically banned steam south of Crewe and started painting yellow diagonal lines on the cabsides of steam locos to indicate they shouldn't work under the wires it seemed to be observed more in the breach than in practice and I've collected a lot of magazine articles and books showing the theoretically banned steam traction under the wires alongside electrics as references for my planned layouts.

 

The period 1960-1967 on the West Coast north of Rugby is probably one of the more interesting periods and locations for the "transition era" modeller in terms of variety and interest in motive power, and I would argue probably more varied than the Kent Coast routes the Class 71 worked which by the time they took over the freight and boat trains was seeing far less steam and very little diesel traction.

[Fenman]

I don't believe there's anything so sinister at play; what has been indicated to me is that there are a substantial number of completed design folders for projects within Bachmann Europe which exceeds the capacity that the CAD design for tooling stage in China could handle whilst factory relocations and transitions took place integrating different factories and departments into one etc. It's quite likely that a comprehensively completed design folder might leap frog another into the design office that's incomplete and progress quicker through the next stages. Hence this year's announcements were to a degree consolidation and creating the opportunity to catch up.

Thanks for that clarification. If I had to guess I'd have said it was a massive supply chain blockage rather than a land grab. But it does make me wonder why they're still continuing to announce new subjects when there seems to be little prospect of the models actually being produced anytime soon.

 

Paul

[Fat Controller]

AC electrics did work alongside steam in the north-west and north Midlands.  I've got a wonderful DVD showing brand new AL6 locos with half-yellow warning panels at the head of blue/grey Mk2 and Manchester Pullman stock at Stoke-on-Trent being passed by ex-LMS 8fs and BR Standard steam (in a filthy state) on freights, as well as green diesels and dmus.  Even when BR theoretically banned steam south of Crewe and started painting yellow diagonal lines on the cabsides of steam locos to indicate they shouldn't work under the wires it seemed to be observed more in the breach than in practice and I've collected a lot of magazine articles and books showing the theoretically banned steam traction under the wires alongside electrics as references for my planned layouts.

 

The period 1960-1967 on the West Coast north of Rugby is probably one of the more interesting periods and locations for the "transition era" modeller in terms of variety and interest in motive power, and I would argue probably more varied than the Kent Coast routes the Class 71 worked which by the time they took over the freight and boat trains was seeing far less steam and very little diesel traction.

And even as far south as Bletchley- see Ernie Brack's excellent site, from which this view is taken:- https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/6580560891/in/album-72157626863256161/ 

[chrisf]

Sorry to butt in but can we go back to the 117s a minute, please?

 

Whilst looking for something else I rediscovered Model Rail for November 2003, issue 61.  In it is a Chris Leigh Masterclass covering duties, liveries and set formations.  Those working on the new model would do well to read it carefully.  The page headed "Memories and modelling notes" is of particular interest.  Back in those days it was quite common for people to use rtr models as a basis for making other types.  This is called 'conversion'.

 

I would add one note of caution.  A photograph by Michael Farr shows an almost new unit near Sea Mills [which I recognise because my aunt lives there!].  The domed headcode box and presence of marker lights suggests that the unit is a 118 and not a 117 as claimed.

 

OK, that was all.

 

Chris

[dibber25]

Sorry to butt in but can we go back to the 117s a minute, please?

 

Whilst looking for something else I rediscovered Model Rail for November 2003, issue 61.  In it is a Chris Leigh Masterclass covering duties, liveries and set formations.  Those working on the new model would do well to read it carefully.  The page headed "Memories and modelling notes" is of particular interest.  Back in those days it was quite common for people to use rtr models as a basis for making other types.  This is called 'conversion'.

 

I would add one note of caution.  A photograph by Michael Farr shows an almost new unit near Sea Mills [which I recognise because my aunt lives there!].  The domed headcode box and presence of marker lights suggests that the unit is a 118 and not a 117 as claimed.

 

OK, that was all.

 

Chris

I'm sure you're correct regarding the picture. Can't remember it and don't have the mag here - maybe my mistake, or something that was changed at the last minute. It is good to resume talk of 117s and 121s rather than the endless bashing of Bachmann regarding deliveries and prices. Those in doubt about Bachmann's production should see the list Dennis produced for the thread about Bachmann deliveries, elsewhere. They have suffered capacity issues in their toolroom, due in no small part to two major outside commissions, one of which is now clear and the other is progressing. I have offered Bachmann assistance with the early 117/121 if they want it. I've recently assisted with the WR autocoach and the Pullman figures set at Bachmann's request, so I've no doubt that when and if they need my input, they'll let me know.

CHRIS LEIGH

[locoholic]

I don't believe there's anything so sinister at play; what has been indicated to me is that there are a substantial number of completed design folders for projects within Bachmann Europe which exceeds the capacity that the CAD design for tooling stage in China could handle whilst factory relocations and transitions took place integrating different factories and departments into one etc.  It's quite likely that a comprehensively completed design folder might leap frog another into the design office that's incomplete and progress quicker through the next stages. Hence this year's announcements were to a degree consolidation and creating the opportunity to catch up.

The problem is that they don't seem to be catching up. Special projects like the S-Stock jump the queue instead. Maybe the Class 117 will do likewise? But in the interim, Hornby and Heljan have had lots more of my money recently.

 

Sorry, back to the DMUs...

[rob D2]

Modern diesels ? Can't see Hornby have made as much as Bach recently

[darren01]

In other words they're following past form and simply guessing - and a 3 car dmu to 2015 standards for a good way south of £200 sounds miraculous to me   

£127.50 for 121 bubble car and that Hattons giving an estimated price, so could come out even at a higher price than this.

[rob D2]

Seems about right I guess, as it's a driven unit about the same size as a loco ! But with more detail.

 

I don't want to go off at a Br blue tangent again just yet.

But with this and my Hornby 31s I've finally got the ingredients of an 80s WR branch.........hmmmm,we'll see.....

[Geep7]

Given the quality of the Bachmann / Kernow thumper @ £200 for what is essentially a loco and a coach. I'd be happy to pay roughly £250 for a 3 car set. And considering the debacle unfolding over on the Dapol Class 73 thread, I for one am glad these 2 unit types are being done by Bachmann.....

[Gwiwer]

And given the fact of these being a main catalogue release not a retailer's commission and as such having the R&D costs spread over many more sales units they could be cheaper than the thumpers even allowing for the extra coach and cost increases while we wait.

 

If I polished up the crystal ball I'd suggest a 3-car 117 might come in at around £210 (allowing roughly £120 for a "loco" and £45 each for newly-developed coaches) and with retailer discounting they could be available at under £200.  

 

Three of the initial batch are expected here.  More will follow if suitable liveries are announced and if the similar class 116/8 types are then produced.  I stocked up on Hornby bubble cars so Bachman might have to work hard to get any of those into my fleet.  

[spiket4]

My question is do i buy the Hornby Class 121 in NSE livery from my local model shop then detail it. Or wait for 

Bachmanns offering?

[Legend]

My question is do i buy the Hornby Class 121 in NSE livery from my local model shop then detail it. Or wait for 

Bachmanns offering?

I suppose it depends if you need it in the next 2-3 years. If you do, go Hornby. Recent gestation periods for Bachmann models have been very long eg Stanier 2-6-0, mk2 coaches ,class 158 . No reason to believe the 121/117 will be any different even though a lot of preliminary work done by Kernow. So if you need it now I'd really get the Hornby one

[rob D2]

I had one of the limby version.

It was a dog - very basic and ran terribly on dcc.

Save your cash

[rembrow]

My question is do i buy the Hornby Class 121 in NSE livery from my local model shop then detail it. Or wait for 

Bachmanns offering?

Depends when you want the model. As Legend advised, the lead time for Bachmann announcements to be available is very long and much longer, on average, for coaches and multiple units, so I would expect at least 3 years after last years announcement. I'm still hoping that Dapol will go ahead with their 121/122 as they must be aware of Bachmann's long lead times and they have the research from the 'n' gauge model. Despite their recent livery issues, they were promising a low level drive system for the 121/122, whereas Bachmann will probably have the same 'lump' that takes up one end of their motorised coach units. This may be difficult to disguise in the twin cab 121. But the main reason is the promise of a 122 which Bachmann haven't announced, saving on a conversion and relining.

[caradoc]

Agree with the long lead times for Bachmann products, however Dapol announced their 121/122 long before Bachmann's 117/121 and there is no sign of, or news on, these at all. 

[Rivercider]

Seeing this thread resurrected it has prompted me to look through my old Ian Allan books and notebooks and photos

from my spotting days from the mid 1970s through to the mid 1980s. 

 

As has been mentioned back in September the class 117 sets worked elsewhere besides the London Division commuter services,

Reading based sets regularly worked from Oxford to Worcester and Hereford, and Banbury. 

 

Both Cardiff and Bristol normally had about five sets each, I think the Cardiff sets went to Bristol in the early 1980s.

 

I have photos of the Cardiff sets in blue/grey and refurbished livery working Valley line services alongside Cantons more numerous class 116 sets. 

 

The Bristol class 117 sets went wherever the other Bristol DMUs went, so locally Bristol to Taunton and Severn Beach and Gloucester.

They also worked south to Westbury and Weymouth, and quite likely to Salisbury. Also Swindon to Gloucester and Worcester.

Bristol to Cardiff, also Cardiff to Hereford.

And from Hereford and Worcester they were regular visitors to Birmingham New St before Tyseley received an allocation.

 

From the mid 1970s to the mid 1980s they did not seem common in Devon and Cornwall so I am not sure I can justify one on my layout,

 

cheers

[Tim H]

From the mid 1970s to the mid 1980s they did not seem common in Devon and Cornwall so I am not sure I can justify one on my layout,

 

John Vaughan's Diesels in the Duchy has L433 running as a 2-car set at Liskeard in 1981.

 

Also P434 as a 3-car set on the Falmouth branch, which has the flat-topped headcode box of a 117.

[BritishRail60062]

I am looking forward to seeing the Class 117 as I have fond memories of these trundling along the branchlines in BR Blue/Grey and NSE livery before the 150/2's and the 153's took over from them in around 1992. Personally I do not mind waiting for a great model train as I will the price for it if its built to a high standard. Which from my experiences, Bachmann always delivers the goods for me and I have not had a problem with their models either . Also I can finally retire my old and somewhat tatty Lima Class 117 that I have had since I was eight years old as I have owned it since childhood. So its another sum of cash that is going to be put aside for this new model and I shall be after the BR Blue and Grey one as well as the NSE variant to add to my fleet. Also the interior lights, cab lights, destination lights as standard is anything to go by with my other DMU/EMU Bachmann models I have. Its going to be a beauty already in my opinion .

[rob D2]

Hmmm,

Yeah, I love Bachmann to bits, but I won't be happy if they put a big motor where you can see it

[James90012]

For some reason I didn't pay any attention to this announcement really but a Bachmann 117 in NSE livery will look special. I'm glad they've announced such a 'modern' livery for the unit as part of the announcement - waiting for a 'modern' 101!

[locoholic]

...Dapol...were promising a low level drive system for the 121/122, whereas Bachmann will probably have the same 'lump' that takes up one end of their motorised coach units.

Doesn't the Bachmann S Stock have a low-level drive system? I hope they'll adapt that for their new DMUs, instead of installing a "lump".

[PMP]

 

 

Bachmann’s EP for the class 121 at Spalding yesterday, some more images here https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2018/11/03/Bachmann-class-121-at-spalding/

Edited November 4, 2018 by PMP

[bubbles2]

Bachmann’s EP for the class 121 at Spalding yesterday, some more images here https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2018/11/03/Bachmann-class-121-at-spalding/E1FB68A2-EEB0-4C30-94D4-638A0DE8D1E5.jpeg

Does it have the high internal floor like the Dapol single car DMUs? This has so far put me off buying the Dapol models as the interior is so noticeable in these units.