Can anyone id this Class 31?

[rodent279]

Evening all.

 

Can anyone id this class 31 please? Photo taken at Swindon stn on 6th June 1981-the date of Swindon Works Open Day. It would have been late afternoon-about 3-4pm.

 

https://flic.kr/p/xxjmWJ

 

cheers N

Edited September 11, 2015 by rodent279

[Rugd1022]

Most likely one of the Bath Road or Old Oak fleet, I was also at Swindon that day but don't recall writing this 31 down. We can rule out Old Oak's 31 273 though, which had ploughs fitted at the time, the faded patch of paint on the cabside and the slight misting at the top of the headcode panel might be a clue if we can compare it with other WR 31 shots. I'm wondering which van service this is, I remember seeing 50 021 glide past the works around lunch time on another van train, it's possible this is the 5A06 Up Vans. Of the top of my head, possible candidates are 31 124, 31 128, 31 210, 31 230, 31 241, 31 257, 31 258, 31 259, 31 260, 31 261, 31 286 and 31 304.

 

Top memory of that day was just how busy it was, I got seperated from my mates and found one of them later on cabbing 40 100 inside 'A' Shop! We returned home with 50 035 from Swindon to Didcot then up to Coventry behind another 50. A great day all round.

[Rivercider]

From the list of likely WR candidates I think we can also rule out a couple

31210 (it was filthy for most of 1981, before and after that date)

31258 (which was also filthy and was carrying ploughs four days earlier),

and

31259 (which had an off centre electrification flash at that time)

cheers

Edited September 13, 2015 by Rivercider

[eastwestdivide]

I was there too. My notes say "back to station 1650", and I noted 31163 up at 1703 with a huge train of parcels vans, starting with 86663, a GUV. That would match the photo, although it's an hour or so later than you said. It is facing in the up direction isn't it?

brdatabase.info lists that loco as being an Old Oak Common one at that time.

 

Does a better scan of the original reveal the van number? Bit of a long shot!

[Rivercider]

I was there too. My notes say "back to station 1650", and I noted 31163 up at 1703 with a huge train of parcels vans, starting with 86663, a GUV. That would match the photo, although it's an hour or so later than you said. It is facing in the up direction isn't it?

brdatabase.info lists that loco as being an Old Oak Common one at that time.

 

Does a better scan of the original reveal the van number? Bit of a long shot!

Good shout, other photos on Flickr of 31163 taken around that time show it with cleanish yellow ends but some fading of the blue bodysides.

 

The WTT for May 1980 to May 1981 shows a possible train, if it was still running a month later.

 

3A40 14.55 Empty NPCCS Cardiff Canton to Old Oak Common due Swindon 16C31 - 16C*45   with a heavy timing load of D525

and the bag in the cab doorway suggests a crew change is taking place,

 

cheers 

[eastwestdivide]

The jigsaw's coming together.

My notes list 17 bogie vans (GUV and BG) behind it (yes I was taking coaching stock numbers at the time)

How heavy would 17 bogie vans be, empty? Guess 30T each = 510T.

[Southernman46]

Blimey - now we're ID'ing vans as well as locos - there's no limit to the power of t'RMWeb

 

A sad day in many ways - all those 45's 46's and 31's waiting scrap - I remember trying to photograph every loco there for posterity

[rodent279]

Do you know what, I thought it was a long shot posting the question, I didn't really expect an answer, except in vague terms along the lines of "likely to be x, y z" etc. RMWEB comes up trumps again!

 

The problem is that the 12yr old me had the line in the book mentality-I didn't really take notes, except to scribble numbers down on scraps of paper, that then got discarded/lost after the numbers had been underlined in the book! So I have no record of van nos, or even of the list of locos I saw in the works! It's an Instamatic photo, so no chance of getting a van no.

 

I would imagine it is 163, I can't imagine there being two van trains close together in the afternoon. It is an Up train, but I'm only guessing at the time, so it could easily be 1700 ish, or alternatively, being a Sat & being emcars, maybe the van train took an earlier path? It's definitely an afternoon shot, after leaving the works-I have two or three of the Wizzo & late-lamented 818 Glory around the turntable that come earlier on in the film. We had to travel back to Leighton Buzzard, so we'd have been waiting for an HST to Paddington, which from memory would have been at about 10 past the hour.

 

Thanks all, these little threads are really satisfying when you can piece a piece of the jigsaw that has been missing for nigh on 35yrs!

 

cheers N

[rodent279]

17 bogies would have been well off the end of the platform though wouldn't it?

[eastwestdivide]

17 bogies would have been well off the end of the platform though wouldn't it?

I guess so, but the line wasn't as busy in those days as it is now, supported by the 15 mins or so for the booked crew change as per Rivercider's post above.

 

My notes show we also caught an HST towards London, possibly the same one you did, depart 1714, power cars 43141/43142. After that we might have had a more interesting journey than back to Leighton buzzard: Arrived Didcot 1730 for a DMU 51384 at 1744 to Oxford arrive 1757. Then behind 47320 at 1938 in a Mk1 compo (Weymouth-Derby train) to Birmingham at 2056, then a DMU at 2215 (!) to Leicester 2317, 6 hours from Swindon!

 

 

Collectively, glad we could help!

[Rivercider]

17 bogies would have been well off the end of the platform though wouldn't it?

Yes quite likely, but the panel would have held the train in the West Loop (adjacent to the works) until it was confirmed the relief traincrew were ready and waiting.

so the call at the platform only needed to be brief, and it would not be kept standing in the way of a passenger service

 

cheers 

Edited September 13, 2015 by Rivercider

[rodent279]

Looking at it, I don't think it is 163 actually. Here is a photo taken in Feb 1981:-

 

https://flic.kr/p/8htEao

 

and here is one taken in July 1981:-

 

https://flic.kr/p/dMtgY5

 

I think 163 is tattier along the side around the mid-height band. Also, there is a small rust patch just to the left of the left grab rail, clearly visible in both photos, but absent in mine. Thoughts anyone?

 

cheers N

[Rivercider]

You could add the Flickr photo to the group 'Banger blue 31101-327'

and add a comment requesting loco identification.

 

I was amazed when I posted a couple of photos with incomplete or incorrect details of photos from the early 1980s,

within a week I had a confirmation of the loco in one photo, and details of the train it worked that day,

 

cheers   

[D1001]

Just to throw a spanner in the works (no pun intended), there used to be a parcels train (usually six vehicles) that ran to Bristol (I think) about 3:30 at Wantage Road - so 3:45ish Swindon, that was rostered for an ER (usually Stratford) 31 or 37. It used to return about 9:30pm. Saw some good uns on that, not least the fabled 37283 that filled a massive line in my spotters book, surrounded as it was by regular and familiar WR engines.

Edited September 14, 2015 by D1001

[rodent279]

5 years on, and after a lot of trawling Flickr, I am now convinced that it is 31158. There are some photos of it, including a few taken at Torrington on the last train tour in 1982, that show little things like the small white blemish under the cab side window on the second man's side.

The clincher for me is these two:-

 

Cardiff Central, May 1980. Over a year earlier than my photo, but that tell-tale white blemish is there under the cabside window. There is another blemish behind the door, slightly lower than the one under the window, and there is evidence of a possible scrape at the bottom of the cab side panel.

 

Torrington, November 1982. Not so clear in this one, but there is a small dark spot to the right of the left hand (second man's) side blue star, that is also in my photo.

 

I don't think it's 163, as this photo taken the previous month shows it looking a lot tattier on the bodyside. There are also one or two rust spots on the front that aren't there in my photo.

 

 

Edit: just remembered that I posted the photo in the Banger Blue Flickr group, and also posed the question in the discussion group on there. Someone else has also come up with 158, so that seals the deal for me.

Cheers N

Edited May 8, 2020 by rodent279

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Which now poses another three questions, what was the long van train behind 31163, and what train was 31158 working, and which was there first?

 

Mike.

[rodent279]

I was going to say is it possible you've mistaken 158 for 163? They're similar shaped numbers. However, if you're on the station, on the same platform, I'll concede that's unlikely! As Swindon only had one platform at the time, you would not have seen it through a train window from another platform.

 

I suppose the parcels train could have been an extra, or a late running earlier service. I went with my dad, a BR employee at the time. I don't know what time we left Swindon, but I know we would have got there around 11-11.30am.

We'd have spent at least a couple of hours in the works, then we went to Swindon museum. There are some absolutely useless, totally over exposed photos of the Dean Goods, Lode Star and City of Truro on the same set of slides.

So I'd guess it would have been 4pm at the earliest before we got back to Swindon station, probably later. I know there was a 1609 off Swindon to Paddington, and one an hour later, and I doubt we would have left later than that. I remember dad meeting a colleague of his from his earlier days on the railway, and us sitting with him on the way back to Paddington.

Edited May 8, 2020 by rodent279

[Rivercider]

13 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Which now poses another three questions, what was the long van train behind 31163, and what train was 31158 working, and which was there first?

 

Mike.

I only have the May 1980 to May 1981 timetable, so things might have changed by June.

 

4A21 Malago to OOC ety news vans was due Swindon 13.21 - 13.45, this loaded heavily, and was sometimes  a 31.

3A03 Swansea to Padd Premium Parcels due Swindon 15.22 - 15.42, but probably only 6 or 7 GUVs,   (3 or 4 from Swansea, and 3 attached ex 3B03 up from Bristol TM)

3A40 Canton - OOC ety news vans due Swindon 16.31 - 16.45

 

cheers

[Pandora]

On 11/09/2015 at 22:21, rodent279 said:

Evening all.

 

Can anyone id this class 31 please? Photo taken at Swindon stn on 6th June 1981-the date of Swindon Works Open Day. It would have been late afternoon-about 3-4pm.

 

https://flic.kr/p/xxjmWJ

 

cheers N

Follow the link and the caption states 31158

[jonny777]

I was also there, but not until quite late as I had work in the morning, and so went by car. I don't have 31158 or 31163 in my notes, although I could have been out of sight of the running lines when they passed. 

 

I'm not sure what time I left, but I do remember a heavy shower while I was there and I took shelter in the shed with D1015 and then someone started it up and the shed filled with exhaust fumes. I assume that was late afternoon, but it may jog someone's memory. 

 

I do have 31265, 31264 and 31274 written in my notebook (in addition to the withdrawn ones) but I've no indication of where they were. They may have been on the stabling point. 

 

 

(Sorry, I just realised this thread is 5 years old  

Edited May 9, 2020 by jonny777

[BrushVeteran]

31265, 31264 and 31274 were in the works vicinity on this day I remember and were the first time expired withdrawals to go into store at Swindon. As it turned out they were overhauled at Doncaster and reinstated.

[jonny777]

Thanks. I did wonder why a Finsbury Park loco might be seen at Swindon. I had three kids under 5 to cope with at home (don't ask) in those days, and so railways had taken a back seat in those days. 

[The Pilotman]

1 hour ago, Pandora said:

Follow the link and the caption states 31158

I think that’s because the OP took the Flickr photo and has added the loco number to the caption on Flickr very recently having deduced the loco's identity.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Western Aviator