Prototype HST announced for N

[philiprporter]

Opposite ends on each side on my set. Left hand end one side, right hand end on the other side. Beautiful set and i never thought I would ever get my hands on a RTR prototype HST-my old man used to work for BR and this brings back memories of a lucky and rare trip on it from Paddington to Reading having been disappointed to see the prototype HST service replaced by a class 50 on an earlier trip to take the HST from Bath-how times change-if a 50 pulled up now i would be ecstatic!! 

[Bomag]

On 27/08/2020 at 18:14, Pre Grouping fan said:

Anybody who's received the coaches, can they confirm whether the intercity lettering is on the same end of the bodies or opposite ends on each side.

 

I read on the n gauge forum that the lettering is on the same end and inaccurate? 

Can anyone confirm which way is accurate?

 

Cheers

 

Yes they are on the same end on at least one model; however, having looked at photos the lettering position changed in 1974 when they were renumbered so it may be right for the period. The modelled version is when on ECML test with E1xxxx numbers. One thing which wrong is the 'Restaurant-Buffet' on E10100 (RUK then TRUK) this  should say only 'Restaurant' - confirmed on a photo as E10100 and as 40500 at Shildon. E10000 is correct with 'Buffet' only. I have to say that with the low contrast background I can hardly see the lettering while in motion.

 

I have not seen any photos of it under test on the ECML but if it was the full 2+10 then the model may struggle - it made heavy weather of 2+8 out the box, more so than the production HST models.

 

Still a very nice model.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Bomag

[Stuart A]

It is way before my modelling period, but there is something about it which made me get the power car pack (probably helped by seeing 41001 on the KWVR last year). Would have loved to have a the money for the coaches too.

LED lights are a little bright, but overall I really like it.  Still think the reverse blue/grey is a great livery.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Stuey
spelling

[maq1988]

My desk doesn't make for the greatest photo background. Close ups do look a little cruel.

 

From a foot away the body side text is almost impossible to read, I can't comment on how accurate the livery detailing is but it makes a nice addition to the collection.

[maq1988]

[StuartM]

Is anyone else having issues with poor running
This is a video of my newly arrived prototype HST after 30mins running in in both directions.
The vibrations are so bad I've had to placer a small bit of Bluetac to stop the whole assembly from vibrating its way down the track

 

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by StuartM

[PaulCheffus]

Hi

 

Not tried mine on a rolling road but on the track there is no sign of a wobble at any speed. I have found the dummy car isn’t very free running but that doesn’t seem to affect the running when coupled to the motorised car.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Davexoc]

Mine doesn't wobble, but it isn't running really smoothly yet. There is quite a bit of fore/aft movement in the bogies which is replicated on the dummy, but I've had it running as an 8 car, and it goes quite well. Would agree about the LEDs being a bit bright.

The dummy definately needs looking at as it is not free running, and is problematic leading into my fiddle yard, but then I have replaced the trailers with all short knuckle couplings (which are awkward to couple, so might have to go long/short).

 

[PaulCheffus]

18 hours ago, Davexoc said:

Mine doesn't wobble, but it isn't running really smoothly yet. There is quite a bit of fore/aft movement in the bogies which is replicated on the dummy, but I've had it running as an 8 car, and it goes quite well. Would agree about the LEDs being a bit bright.

The dummy definately needs looking at as it is not free running, and is problematic leading into my fiddle yard, but then I have replaced the trailers with all short knuckle couplings (which are awkward to couple, so might have to go long/short).

 

Hi

 

I’ve taken my dummy car apart and the wheels are rubbing on the underside as you can see where it has started to make the plastic shiny. I’m pondering options at the moment to lengthen the cutouts for the bogies so the wheels are not in contact. Not sure if the power car is the same as it occasionally makes a noise like something is rubbing.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

Edited September 6, 2020 by PaulCheffus
Grammar

[Davexoc]

Further running has revealed that without the dummy, but 6 trailers at around 60% power the power car does wobble slightly, the rear bogie seems to be where it comes from. With the dummy either at the rear or buffered up at the front and it runs smoother. The extra drag with it at the rear also opens up the gap between gangway connections.

 

Further investigation required now that Paul may have found the problem.

[PaulCheffus]

Hi

 

My dummy power car is now as free rolling as the NMT version I have.

 

Two things I noticed. The witness marks on the underside of the underframe where the wheels had rubbed and the contacts on the bogies slipping down the side of the copper strips on the underframe.

 

I bent the strips so they were further across the bogie opening and cut the underframe so that the square part either side of the curve for the bogie pivot is now 5.5mm long.

 

 

Both cutouts have been modified in the same way.

Cheers

Paul

Edited September 7, 2020 by PaulCheffus
Add picture of mod

[cornish trains jez]

Hi,

 

Received mine yesterday. Fantastic model and well worth all the wait. Has anyone managed to sort out the insanely bright headlights? Any way of changing this?

 

Best regards,

 

Jeremy

 

[Pre Grouping fan]

I was considering painting over the led or lense to make them warm white but I've seen someone use the coloured film from quality street chocolates to alter led colour/ brightness so that maybe worth a shot. 

[PaulCheffus]

4 hours ago, cornish trains jez said:

Hi,

 

Received mine yesterday. Fantastic model and well worth all the wait. Has anyone managed to sort out the insanely bright headlights? Any way of changing this?

 

Best regards,

 

Jeremy

 

Hi

 

Only by dimming them on DCC.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[njee20]

Paul Churchill swapped the LED for a warm white one, which helped make it look less stark than the cool white it comes with.

[StuartM]

My wobbling power has been replaced with a much smoother running one
How many of you knew of the High speed coal trains that were trailed

 

 

[tiger]

I had a closer look at my Dapol Prototype HST yesterday and noticed that most of the coaches have "E" prefixes to the running numbers, but two have "M".

 

Specifically:

 

Saloon pack 1 (2P-007-001) contains FOs E11000, E11001, and TSOs E12000, E12001
Saloon pack 2 (2P-007-002) contains FOs E11002, M11003, and TSOs E12002, M12003
Buffet pack (2P-007-003) contains (T)RSB E10000 and (T)RUK E10100

 

For some reason I thought I had remembered that it was the two coaches which were later rebuilt to Royal Train saloons (11001 and 12001) which were "M" prefixed at one time. I had a quick flick through a couple of books but was not able to confirm anything to do with regional allocations except that of the 8 open saloons built, only 6 were re-numbered into the 41xxx and 42xxx HST number range when the set was re-classified as a DEMU, 252001 - the two "Royal" coaches were not renumbered. I might have some other books with more detail but they are up in an attic in the UK on the other side of the world from my current location!

 

Can anyone with access to better information (or better memories) enlighten me as to what the regional prefixes were and whether Dapol are correct or have used "artistic licence"? Even better, are there any actual recorded set formations? I'm especially interested in the period when the set was tested on the ECML with 41xxx power cars and 11xxx/12xxx/10xxx numbering of the coaches, rather than the WR 252001 era.

 

I know set formations varied but wondered whether the "M" prefixed coaches were ever actually included in the Prototype HST formation or if they were always separately tested in loco hauled rakes? (I have no photographic or other evidence to back this theory up!)

 

For what it's worth, the renumbering was as follows:

 

11000 -> 41000 -> ADB975814 Test Car 10, now in New Measurement Train
11001 -> Royal train 2903
11002 -> 41001 -> rebuilt as production TF 41170
11003 -> 41002 -> rebuilt as production TF 41174 later converted to TS 43257
12000 -> 42000 -> rebuilt as production TF 41172, later converted to TS 42355
12001 -> Royal train 2904
12002 -> 42001 -> rebuilt as production TF 41171, later converted to TS 42353
12003 -> 42002 -> rebuilt as production TF 41173, later converted to TS 42356
10000 -> 40000 -> departmental 975984 now in New Measurement Train
10100 -> 40500 -> departmental 977089, scrapped in early 1990s

 

Thanks in advance if anyone is able to help!

 

Cheers, 

 

Tom.

 

(also cross-posted to N Gauge Forum)

Edited November 16, 2020 by tiger
Cross-posted

[Bomag]

The Prototype Mk3s would have been 3217 (11003) Lot 30833 and 3218-3220 Lot 30848 but never carried theses numbers and delivered 11003/11000/11001/11002.  They were renumbered to 41xxx in September 74.

For the TSO 12003 Lot 30832 was numbered M5805 in Derby LL works but renumbered to 12xxx before delivery. The rest 5806-5808 were only ever 12000-12002 (Lot 30847). Renumbering to 42xxx in September 74

 

10000 RUB Lot 30849 became 40000 TRUB and 10100 RUK Lot 30850 became TRUK 40500, both September 74. 10000 is listed as a RUB in some references and RSB in others.

 

The prototype Mk3s were on test 2/73 and formally allocated new to NL May 73 for testing so the coaches are correct for May 73 (and perhaps Feb 73) to the middle of 74 (o/l to WR 1st June 74).

 

I have no idea if 11001/12001 had run with an M regional prefix.  They were seen in Wolverton works in July 75 for conversion.

 

The only time I saw it was at Shildon 31/8/75 when it was 2*TF,TRUK, TS, TRB, 2*TS 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Bomag

[tiger]

Thanks for the info Bomag. 

 

Info from another forum confirms that the two "003" coaches were actually ordered first and hence have the separate lot numbers you listed - and they were the two coaches with "M" prefixes. I think I was mistaken to suggest that 11001 and 12001 had been "M" prefixed and I now think Dapol are correct.

 

It was suggested that 11003/12003 were the first two coaches modified with 3-phase supply and tested with MK1 generator coach ADB975325 - see full reply here - and hence they were kept with the prototype HST and renumbered (to 41002/42002) and two other vehicles selected to become Royals.

 

Cheers, Tom.

[Bomag]

42 minutes ago, tiger said:

Thanks for the info Bomag. 

 

Info from another forum confirms that the two "003" coaches were actually ordered first and hence have the separate lot numbers you listed - and they were the two coaches with "M" prefixes. I think I was mistaken to suggest that 11001 and 12001 had been "M" prefixed and I now think Dapol are correct.

 

It was suggested that 11003/12003 were the first two coaches modified with 3-phase supply and tested with MK1 generator coach ADB975325 - see full reply here - and hence they were kept with the prototype HST and renumbered (to 41002/42002) and two other vehicles selected to become Royals.

 

Cheers, Tom.

 

975325 was converted to a normal ETH generator at Heaton in 1968 (for the introduction of the Mk2a sets). It was not renumbered and converted to HST 3 phase until late 1973

 

If you look at allocation and usage of the prototype day coaches then 41000-41002 and 42000-42002 all have the same history until storage in December 1976. From photos of the stock in service they have standard ETH sockets not the 3 phase of the production run. Given that the train was seven coaches in the photos then it was not possible that both 42002 and 41002 were converted to 3 phase before 12/76

[grahame]

In an effort to kick start my railway modelling interest I've indulged in a little RTR retail therapy and purchased Dapol's prototype HST. It turned up the following day and I'm quite impressed. I've not yet closely inspected or test run it as that is the next effort hurdle to overcome, but here's a pic of the two power cars:

 

 

 

[montyburns56]

 

wrong thread

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by montyburns56