BR ex LMS Bogie Coal Hoppers

[56c]

Here's a picture of one of the LMS side-discharge hopper wagons as-built during a demonstration for the press in 1929.

 

 

Possibly my favourite view, there's several more on the website that show modifications over the years.

 

Steve

www.steve-banks.org

[jonhall]

Even within mainland Europe, the side-unloading hopper is far from universal; they're most popular in Germany, whilst France, for example, seems to prefer bottom-emptying hoppers with sufficent clearance to put a portable conveyer twixt rail-head and hopper door. The Fals (?) hoppers do run in France, but mainly carring loads to Germany.

 

I had a quick look at the appropriate volume of Stephan Carstens' German wagon bible, and whilst my German isn't up to all the nuances, it appears that as part of the post First World War reparations a large number of Germany's better wagons went to the French, which therefore required the Germans to build some replacements, and that the side unloading hopper seems to have been initially a Rhineland area favoured type, with several of the well known builders having constructed a small batches to make up the first few hundred. 

 

Jon

[56c]

Interesting stuff, Jon, well done,

 

Keith Bristow, who is leading the research on this, plans to go through various LMS committee minutes at Kew but people who've been there before have drawn a blank. The best source (Derby) lost a lot of its material during a fire. At the moment exactly what happened in 1929 is tantalisingly out of reach.

 

Steve

www.steve-banks.org

[bingley hall]

Thanks for the responses re the Germanic connection.

[JZ]

Like the OP, I am thinking of knocking up a rake of these. I was wondering what the livery was? Difficult to tell in the colour photo's whether it is grey or bauxite. I would imagine bauxite as they were fitted, however there were some odd exceptions.

[Gordon A]

https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/143-lms-coal-the-40t-hoppers

 

Gordon A

 

 

[JZ]

I've seen that one Gordon. I should have said BR livery. The implication in the pictures, with white numbers with no background field is bauxite, but white numbers straight on grey was not unknown.

[Wickham Green]

Fitted wagons were bauxite in BR days full stop. .............. in theory at least !

[kevinlms]

Looking at this topic, from a different viewpoint.

 

With only 30 wagons being built & run in trains of only 10 each, means a load per train of 400 Tons.

So was the power station a quite small one, or was only a small proportion of the incoming coal carried in these wagons? This would obviously mean standard LMS 12 Ton mineral wagons for the rest.

[BrushVeteran]

My understanding that this was an 'in house' working from Toton to Brent sidings mainly to serve the ex.LMS Stonebridge Park Power Station which fed the Euston-Watford; Broad St.-Richmond and LT lines in the specially constructed 40ton side discharge hoppers. I was also told that loco coal was transported in the consist prior to the end of steam bound for Willesden, Camden and Cricklewood, Kentish Town. The consist would be split at Brent sidings and tripped to the main users. I only saw these hopper wagons briefly in the three of four years they were diesel hauled prior to the closure of Stonebridge Park and they were the only wagon type in the consist at that time. My Aunt & Uncle resided in Wembley during that time so my visits were fairly frequent and I always chose the long walk from Stonebridge Park to Scarle  Road.

[Fat Controller]

If the station was only supplying the DC network, then it wouldn't have been that large, or received that much coal. Durnsford Road power station, on the former L&SWR suburban lines, was probably of similar size, and used to receive its coal in standard minerals,pushed one-by-one up the ramp; not a method adapted to large quantities of coal. 

Even early-1950s built stations like Carmarthen Bay would measure their daily input in terms of hundreds, rather than thousands of tons.

Incidentally, I don't know if anyone has linked to this article previously:-

https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/143-lms-coal-the-40t-hoppers

[BrushVeteran]

It really depends on how many trips were made from the coalfields per week. I certainly don't think it was daily and the hoppers weren't used anywhere else as far as I'm aware. I have an article somewhere about  the power station I'll try and dig it out.

[Ian Smeeton]

Found this on Britain from Above.

 

https://britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw006172

 

Shows the discharge facilities, but no sign of the hoppers.

 

 

Regards

 

Ian

Edited February 18, 2019 by Ian Smeeton
Edit: Cut duplicated link

[montyburns56]

Northampton 1966 by John Evans

 

 

[jonhall]

51 minutes ago, montyburns56 said:

Northampton 1966 by John Evans

 

 

 

and linked to by Brian on page 1 as long ago as 2014

[lather]

So what route did these actually work in BR days? There's mentions that they were originally built to run Toton to Brent in LMS days, but there's BR-era pictures that place them on the WCML. So what route would they actually work in BR days (especially the later days of diesel or electric traction)?

[watfordtmc]

On 01/11/2021 at 16:46, lather said:

So what route did these actually work in BR days? There's mentions that they were originally built to run Toton to Brent in LMS days, but there's BR-era pictures that place them on the WCML. So what route would they actually work in BR days (especially the later days of diesel or electric traction)?

 

Judging by the location of the train, a possible route for this service to take would have been:

• Willesden Sidings, WCML, Northampton, Market Harborough via Brixworth, MML to Toton.

 

Other options from the steam era, of varying possibility, are:

• Willesden Sidings, WCML to Blisworth, then the old Northampton and Peterborough line through Northampton (Bridge Street) and              Wellingborough (London Road) to Wellingborough (Midland), then MML to Toton.
• Willesden Sidings, WCML to Northampton (Castle), reverse and via Northampton (Bridge Street) and Wellingborough as above.
• Willesden Sidings to Rugby, then to South Wigston via Ullesthorpe, Leicester and MML to Toton.

 

All loaded journeys would apply in reverse.

 

All the above assume that ‘Brent’ refers to Willesden Brent sidings, rather than what I think of as Cricklewood ‘Brent’ sidings.

 

Before World War II, I’m not sure it was possible to run through from the LNWR to MR (or vice-versa) at Market Harborough, in which case my preference would be via Rugby.

 

Regards

TMc

05/11/2021