Playing with Hornby Dublo 3 rail again

[Golden Fleece 30]

John,

 

If it is still the same point after the mods then that should say change the point.  This issue has been a little concern for a few people of the years but with plenty not having an issue.  I have about 6 of these and only 2 or 3 pony trucks gave issues.  I fitted a small phosphor bronze strip acting like a spring by putting a little pressure on it which cured my issues.

 

One thing to look at is if the toe end of the point comes off a curve?  It was always recommended to have at least the short straight or better still a quarter one in front of the point.  This goes for two points joined together, ideally a straight between the two should be in place.

 

It is strange it very rarely happens with the 8F which has the same pony truck.

 

There is always the chance that the frog has lifted slightly or the point itself been twisted.

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

I've found that the later versions with plastic wheels are more prone to derail, due to insufficient weight, but adding a spring should have fixed that. I would check the wheel back to back (should be 14.2mm) and that the wheels run true. Also check that the coupling dropper is set correctly (1/32" above the rail head) as it could be catching in the point. The pickup shouldn't come anywhere near the frog and is designed to ride over the dead section of wing rail - the conductor rail should be level to ensure this. All of mine are pretty reliable, when it come to trackholding. The only problems seem to occur when the pony/bogie is coupled to a train. The drag can cause them to derail.

 

If all this fails try swopping the point again. (It might well be OK elsewhere.) Check the conductor rail is level and that there is no distortion in the base before relaying.

 

The bogie assemblies are rather sloppy to allow for track irregularities (It was designed to be laid on the floor.) If all else fails try turning the locomotive around, so that the bogie leads into the point

[Brit70053]

Thanks for your replies Golden Fleece 30 and Il Grifone, the possibilities you suggest certainly give me food for thought pending the next get together, which is yet to be arranged.

The irregularity of our gatherings is one of the problems in dealing with something like this, if an issue isn't resolved the day it arises, it can be some months before any resolution can be attempted, or solutions applied 'off site' can not be fully tested or tweaked until we 'four Old Gits and a whippersnapper'(50 something) can get back together.

Another problem is the sentimental value attached to the layout by the owner, who is reluctant to change the basic infrastructure of the layout which is mounted on boards which must be in advance of 50 years old and inevitably has some problems built in.

Thankfully a comprehensive re wire has been undertaken and the layout and stock do behave well enough in general and we have had fun, which, is the object of the exercise after all.

It is therefore a challenge to try and get the one loco which has a regular problem to behave itself. It will eventually.

 

John

[sagaguy]

Talking of 3 rail point frogs,it`s a pity that there are no replacement frogs available,i have several electrically operated points with broken frogs,normally the curved portion where the fishplate fits.The only way i can see is to find some scrap points & replace the frogs from these.

 

                         Ray.

[Golden Fleece 30]

I have read within the last couple of months that a Vic Michael in Edinburgh had quite a few replacement ones cast but I do not have a contact address for him Ray.  Try asking on other sites and there might be someone on here who knows.

 

Garry

[brianusa]

Try http://www.hrca.net/

 

Brian.

[sagaguy]

Try http://www.hrca.net/

 

Brian.

Funnily enough,i`ve just sent off my application fom to rejoin after a space of about 15 years.

 

                                Ray.

[Il Grifone]

Talking of 3 rail point frogs,it`s a pity that there are no replacement frogs available,i have several electrically operated points with broken frogs,normally the curved portion where the fishplate fits.The only way i can see is to find some scrap points & replace the frogs from these.

 

                         Ray.

 

This is a particular problem with pre-war points (usual mazak pest) and I saw somewhere replacement frogs offered (I can't remember where and it was several years ago). Unfortunately the price requested was more than the value of the point....

I solved the problem with one point by soldering a new frog and wing rails, made with rail from a scrap piece of track, to the tinplate base. For some reason I didn't think to match the rail and it stands out like the proverbial sore thumb. I'll have to find a scrap piece of brass track and do it again properly.

A post war point, broken as described, has had a new part pinched from a scrap point (this has been a useful source of parts) and fixed with Araldite. I was going to file away a section of the cast frog and solder in a short piece of rail, but then the replacement turned up.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here is a modified R1 chassis that has its wheels equally spaced and will be 3-railed later depending on what loco it turns into. As yet I do not know what body I am putting on it, it was going to be a Wills 4F but I ended up 3-railing the Wills chassis which worked fine so this may have another 4F, a J39, a J11 or something I have forgotten about in the "spares" box of bodies. I am looking to hopefully find a metal body but not take an already fitted Tri-ang Jinty one out if it is working.

The chassis runs fine with just wires to the motor so there is no reason to think it will be different on the track and so there are a few other possibilities in my mind for a few other spare chassis's I have .

The front end had its original coupling rod cut in half but this time I had some brass coupling rods from another project so decided to file the pin hole to fit OVER the already inserted one slightly larger so no jamming and then cut the other end close to the centre pin before soldering it to the existing cut halves. Far easier than making all new rods, removing the pins and reinserting them.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but t would have been nice if Dublo had drilled a different spaced hole to use for other possibilities like Hornby did with their County/Schools/Compound/Shire where the chassis had a fixed rear axle position but two different front ones in the same block.

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here are both modified chassis's working but using a temporary pick-up for testing purposes.

 

[Il Grifone]

Here is a modified R1 chassis that has its wheels equally spaced and will be 3-railed later depending on what loco it turns into. As yet I do not know what body I am putting on it, it was going to be a Wills 4F but I ended up 3-railing the Wills chassis which worked fine so this may have another 4F, a J39, a J11 or something I have forgotten about in the "spares" box of bodies. I am looking to hopefully find a metal body but not take an already fitted Tri-ang Jinty one out if it is working.

 

The chassis runs fine with just wires to the motor so there is no reason to think it will be different on the track and so there are a few other possibilities in my mind for a few other spare chassis's I have .

 

The front end had its original coupling rod cut in half but this time I had some brass coupling rods from another project so decided to file the pin hole to fit OVER the already inserted one slightly larger so no jamming and then cut the other end close to the centre pin before soldering it to the existing cut halves. Far easier than making all new rods, removing the pins and reinserting them.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but t would have been nice if Dublo had drilled a different spaced hole to use for other possibilities like Hornby did with their County/Schools/Compound/Shire where the chassis had a fixed rear axle position but two different front ones in the same block.

 

Garry

 

It would have been nice if, seeing they were making a new chassis anyway, they had made the wheelbase correct for an R1, rather than just recycling the N2 coupling rods. 6' 6" + 7' 9" isn't much use for anything (even a 00 N2 - strangely it works out to 7' 3" + 9' 0" in H0...  ). Several holes would have been great but presupposes their intention to produce further 0-6-0Ts. I wanted a pannier at the time - even then I thought the Gaiety one was cr not up to scratch. (I have just persuaded the chassis of one of these to revolve sweetly. (Bent coupling rods, crank pins and off true wheels plus a quartering problem....)

Edited May 2, 2016 by Il Grifone

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here is a Margate Schools class loco and tender body fitted to Dublo chassis's. The loco is set on the R1 chassis that has been heavily modified making it into a 4-4-0. This needed a new rear axle hole drilling to keep the wheels in alignment with the body splashers, this new hole had a bush fitted for some reason I cannot remember but the hole is for lubrication. The front end need a considerable amount of metal removing for the cylinders to fit, body to fit and the Castle/City bogie to run underneath. The driving wheels are original Tri-ang (Hornby) bushed with aluminium to fit the Dublo axles, the photo shows why there is a wobble so the wheel will need "tweaking" a little . These wheels were used so the valve gear would be easier to fit. At the moment the return crank and its linkage needs some adjustment to run smoothly. Unfortunately I forgot to clip the back end down so it shows it raised slightly. The tender body has been fitted to a Castle tender chassis with plunger pick-ups, the shape of this frame is more in keeping with the Schools class.

I was worried that it would be too light as 4-4-0's are not the best/easiest loco to balance out but without any issues it will pull a short train.
At the moment the loco has no added weight and is quite light, being 197 grams for body and chassis in total, after all the chassis material removed but it still pulls 4 Exleys with glass windows.

Like a few of these recent ones the bodies were painted 30 + years ago and too good to strip and redo.

Garry
ps it seems I never got around to renaming it, the number is for Cheltenham but the name is as Hornby produced it as Stowe. Looks like a set of nameplates are called for

Edited May 4, 2016 by Golden Fleece 30

[Golden Fleece 30]

After a little discussion in various places yesterday, I decided to have a go at a better more realistic Dublo looking V2.

The Classic Collections, Michael Foster and my own previous one all fall short with the wheel base being the 2-6-4 tank or A4. In real life the centre wheel was a lot closer to the front wheels than the back. Also the wheels should be "inside" the curved footplate not going far back into it. I know this is done for a reason but it can be overcome.

I therefore decided to use the R1 chassis again as this has offset wheel spacing's. The original small wheels were removed and replaced by some 2-6-4 tank 3-rail ones. I had to remove the connecting rods from all the wheels to use the R1 set with the larger wheels. Then, it was a question of spacing the wheels correctly in between the the footplate curves and a piece of brass screwed to the front of the chassis and then a brass block made for the loco body rear which had a cutout for the R1 lug.

Once this position was set I turned to the valve gear and to keep this in line with Dublo, and, LNER I used the A4 version. In real life due to the centre wheel position the connecting rods were considerably shorter than an A4, a fact missed by other builds.

First the position was marked on the brass front support and then the shape of the valve gear marked and filed to suit. This was then soldered onto the brass. I then found that the A4 wheels had a slightly smaller throw than the 2-6-4 as the crosshead would hit the front and rear of the slide bars so the ends were trimmed down. After that it was a matter of cutting the connecting rods to join back at a shorter length along with the top support frame.

There is still a bit to do like cylinder covers, motion bracket, another tender etc but I have a more realistic Dublo version of this chassis, AND, it fits a body without cutouts for the pole pieces as all the others do but I thought you could see it before any other work is done which may hide the Dublo fittings.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here is the V2 with altered number to match one I photographed in York Yards around 1964/5 time.  The quality is not too good as I was developing and printing my own aged 12 or 13 years old.  Trying to recreate the photo from the same position I though my next project will be the loco next to it as I have a reasonable photo of that too.

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

This is a particular problem with pre-war points (usual mazak pest) and I saw somewhere replacement frogs offered (I can't remember where and it was several years ago). Unfortunately the price requested was more than the value of the point....

I solved the problem with one point by soldering a new frog and wing rails, made with rail from a scrap piece of track, to the tinplate base. For some reason I didn't think to match the rail and it stands out like the proverbial sore thumb. I'll have to find a scrap piece of brass track and do it again properly.

A post war point, broken as described, has had a new part pinched from a scrap point (this has been a useful source of parts) and fixed with Araldite. I was going to file away a section of the cast frog and solder in a short piece of rail, but then the replacement turned up.

 

The topic 'Resurrection' covers the restoration of the above scrap point. (I can't bear to throw things away!)

 

Now, where did I put my GBL V2?

Edited May 17, 2016 by Il Grifone

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here is another one from York Yards around 1964/5 time.  This time I am next to a B1 61176 so my modern photo has 61176 next to me.  This model again uses the Dublo R1 chassis as with the V2 the wheels are off set so a good basis.  Slightly over size cylinder covers were made to get around the Dublo A4 valve gear but I now have a mod for that which has been done on the V2.

 

The extra hole in the smokebox was only spotted after this had been photographed and looks to be another lamp bracket that may have fallen out.  I will have to look out for one.  Because Dublo did not make an LNER 6 wheel tender I am unsure yet as to whether to use a Dublo LMS modified or leave it.

 

Garry

[Phil Clarke 1980]

I have just purchased on impulse from a well known auction site the dublo 3rail duchess of athol set which is currently on the dinning room table much to my wife to be's displeasure but im having great fun and so are the kids! my dad has given me some things he had left from his 3 rail when he was a child ive got a turn table signal box buffers and bridge managed to get a through staion of same aution site and 2 sets of points a diamond crossing and uncuppling rail and got a level crossing from a second hand shop in Worcester im also quite pleased that everything other than the turntable has its original box im now looking for more 3 rail

 

if I had the room id do away with my layout and have it up permanently

[Il Grifone]

I have just purchased on impulse from a well known auction site the dublo 3rail duchess of athol set which is currently on the dinning room table much to my wife to be's displeasure but im having great fun and so are the kids! my dad has given me some things he had left from his 3 rail when he was a child ive got a turn table signal box buffers and bridge managed to get a through staion of same aution site and 2 sets of points a diamond crossing and uncuppling rail and got a level crossing from a second hand shop in Worcester im also quite pleased that everything other than the turntable has its original box im now looking for more 3 rail

 

if I had the room id do away with my layout and have it up permanently

 

Hornby Dublo is contagious, addictive and hard/impossible to cure.... (I've been hooked for 65 years...)

 

Toy fairs are a good source of fixes supply and often cheaper than that auction site (try 'eBid' as well  http://www.ebid.net/uk/ - incidentally the loading gauge on sale at the moment (described as a Dublo mail carrier ? ) is not Dublo but Crescent* . Beware also that boxes are expensive (the box can be worth cost more than the contents!) and check before purchase, as it is not unknown for the cardboard to have damaged the finish. I doubt even Meccano Ltd. expected their products to last so long....

 

*Adding other makes to the collection is fatal....

Edited May 22, 2016 by Il Grifone

[PatB]

Hornby Dublo is contagious, addictive and hard/impossible to cure.... (I've been hooked for 65 years...)

 

Toy fairs are a good source of fixes supply and often cheaper than that auction site (try 'eBid' as well  http://www.ebid.net/uk/ - incidentally the loading gauge on sale at the moment (described as a Dublo mail carrier ? ) is not Dublo but Crescent* . Beware also that boxes are expensive (the box can be worth cost more than the contents!) and check before purchase, as it is not unknown for the cardboard to have damaged the finish. I doubt even Meccano Ltd. expected their products to last so long....

 

*Adding other makes to the collection is fatal....

 

Agree with all this, although I'm still in the early stages of the disease, with an N2 under restoration, a not too bad Duchess awaiting servicing and a bit of work on the tender, and a Silver King in the mail, along with a couple of rather sad suburban coaches which will need extensive work.

 

The attraction, for me as an engineer, is the superb, simple and yet fully serviceable and robust design. I've come to think of the contrast between Hornby-Meccano and Triang in the following terms. Meccano were, philosophically, an engineering company which happened to make toys (yes, I know Frank Hornby wasn't a professional engineer but he appears to have thought like one), whereas Triang were, by contrast, a toy company who happened to make some toys with some engineering content. Of course, from a commercial standpoint, Hornby ceased to exist in any meaningful sense in 1964 whereas Triang's heirs and successors (and a surprising amount of their tooling when you look at the Thomas range ) is still with us and so it's not too hard to see which was the more profitable approach.

[Il Grifone]

I think Tri-ang's main advantages were lower cost and more new releases. Dublo managed only a couple at most of new locomotives a year, whereas Tri-ang brought out many more (at least that was my impression at the time!). Then it was 2 rail rather than 3 rail. Dublo should have changed over much earlier and got rid of the awful tin track - it wasn't regarded as 'full of vintage charm' back then. The problems of insulation weren't an issue. Trix had been in production 3 years before Dublo appeared.

 

The fad of slot-car racing in the late fifties/early sixties didn't help either. Tri-ang were in on this at the beginning with Scalextric. It took Meccano a while to launch Circuit 24 which never caught on.

[sagaguy]

Circuit 24 was a product that an experienced company like Meccano should never have touched with the proverbial barge pole.the clue lay in the power requirement,24 volts.It was a French cottage industry which made supplies very erratic,no wonder it was a commercial disaster.

 

 Rovex/Triang had some very capable model makers on their staff in the early days,one of them was Martin Evans who went on to design 5"/3 1/2" gauge live steam locos,i built one of his Simplex 0-6-0 tank locos in the 1970s.

 

 Ray.

[PatB]

I certainly wouldn't dismiss Triang's output out of hand. As noted by Il Grifone their range was more prolific and, initially, more sophisticated electrically. I would also acknowledge their experience in the injection moulding area and their hugely successful motor designs. As I said before, quite a bit of Thomas's rolling stock can (or could until recently, at least) trace its ancestry back to Triang and beyond (as an aside, I'd be interested to know what percentage of New Hornby's sales volume is accounted for by these old designs).

 

Nonetheless, Triang's output was clearly built down to a price. Meccano's wasn't so much but that dictated other compromises (limited range, for example). You pays yer money and you takes yer choice.

[Phil Clarke 1980]

tis very contagious in the last 4 days ive bought the through station another set of pionts and some half straits and about 5 min ago i got the island station in blue box of ebay for £5 i just need the  footbridge in the blue box ( to match my other blue boxs ) think i have a problem ( dont tell the wife !!)

 

guess its better than my old hobbie buying cars ! the neighbours dont complain at this

[sagaguy]

tis very contagious in the last 4 days ive bought the through station another set of pionts and some half straits and about 5 min ago i got the island station in blue box of ebay for £5 i just need the  footbridge in the blue box ( to match my other blue boxs ) think i have a problem ( dont tell the wife !!)

 

guess its better than my old hobbie buying cars ! the neighbours dont complain at this

Right,you`ve got the bug,now you move into restoration.If you have to repaint the stations(& any other beige accessory),go to Halfords & ask them to mix you a rattle can of Ford Sahara beige,It`s £14.99 a can but is as near as dammit to the original shade but it does need a coat of satin laquer.

 

                        Ray.

[Dublodad]

My Hornby Dublo display at Padfield Court sheltered accommodation in Wembley yesterday 23 May 2016.