Jonny's "where are these?" photo album

[Wickham Green]

If the locos are braking heavily there would be a degree of weight transfer so they're BOTH down on the leading bogie & up on the trailing one ............................ but that doesn't go very far towards explaining louvre differences I'm afraid !

[eastwestdivide]

This post (first two photos) shows two different grille styles:

 

 

Edited June 17, 2019 by eastwestdivide

[royaloak]

30 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

This is basically a question for the knowledgeable. The attached photo shows a pair of 31s passing Teignmouth c1991. They are 31464; and 31462 which looks to be sat rather higher on the bogies than 464. Also the second set of bodyside air louvres appear solid black rather than the grilles of 464. 

 

Was 31462 modified in some respect, which would account for the difference?

 

 

The difference in height could just be newer wheelsets on 31462 verses worn ones on 31464, the grilles on 3462 could have been modified to be vertical instead of the normal horizontal after it was found the vertical ones offered better cooling.

[Davexoc]

8 hours ago, royaloak said:

The difference in height could just be newer wheelsets on 31462 verses worn ones on 31464, the grilles on 3462 could have been modified to be vertical instead of the normal horizontal after it was found the vertical ones offered better cooling.

I would agree that 464 seems to have well worn tyres, whereas 462 had probably recently been through Works. 464 appears to have the white paint lines to see if the tyres are shifting, would be inside face on coaching stock though so as not to worry the punters.

I suppose 464 could be carrying more fuel, but more likely it needs new springs and is due an overhaul.

 

If you look at the roof you can see 462 also has the extended fan cowl which together with the vertical radiator slats was to improve cooling.

[DY444]

462 appears to me to be in the all over plain grey livery which also supports the more recently shopped theory.

[jonny777]

Does anyone recognise this station? 

 

The other photos on the film may not be of much help because they either at York or Weymouth. 

 

 

 

[Oldddudders]

Holmsley?

[eastwestdivide]

15 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Holmsley?

Good spot! Southern concrete lamp posts?

Google street view here: https://www.google.com/maps/@50.8055963,-1.6727645,3a,73.7y,162.05h,89.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYNSHg2Y9tpMYoZ00NhLriA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Edited June 28, 2019 by eastwestdivide

[Oldddudders]

1 minute ago, eastwestdivide said:

Good spot! Southern concrete lamp posts?

 

Yup, it had a Castleman's Corkscrew feel (ooh!) or thereabouts. 

[Daveloco1]

On 26/09/2015 at 21:15, jonny777 said:

Yes, looking at it again I think you are right.

 

These are obviously easy, so here is one with less clues.

 

 

 

Hi 

I know this goes along back but I've just picked up this thread.

Did you resolve the above location?

It looks familiar but the mile post is throwing me.

Suggestion: Moorthorpe where the 'slip' line leaves the Sheffield to York line and does down to meet the Doncaster to Leeds main line?

I know from my records Western Region locomotives often work through this junction. Spent many hours within the 'triangle'.

I cannot check now as I have not lived down that way for many years but from memory the relative heights of track and bridge design look right.

 

Dave

 

 

[jonny777]

Hi Dave. 

 

I don't believe the location was ever resolved. I think a few people suggested Cudworth and we left it at that. 

 

I will see if I can find an old railway map of the area to find out if the milepost could be correct for Moorthorpe. 

 

 

[jonny777]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

Holmsley?

 

 

Excellent inspiration Ian, and during the time spent scanning the rest of the slides I found a photo taken from the road bridge looking in the other direction, which virtually confirms the location as being the same as Eastwest's Google Map link. 

 

 

[iands]

1 hour ago, Daveloco1 said:

 

Hi 

I know this goes along back but I've just picked up this thread.

Did you resolve the above location?

It looks familiar but the mile post is throwing me.

Suggestion: Moorthorpe where the 'slip' line leaves the Sheffield to York line and does down to meet the Doncaster to Leeds main line?

I know from my records Western Region locomotives often work through this junction. Spent many hours within the 'triangle'.

I cannot check now as I have not lived down that way for many years but from memory the relative heights of track and bridge design look right.

 

Dave

 

 

Hi Dave,

 

I think the mileage is wrong for Moorthorpe. If it were that line, 175 Mile Post would be around the Wakefield Westgate/Wakefield Kirkgate area, and that doesn't look like Wakefield to me - but I'm happy to be proved wrong.

[eastwestdivide]

40 minutes ago, iands said:

Hi Dave,

 

I think the mileage is wrong for Moorthorpe. If it were that line, 175 Mile Post would be around the Wakefield Westgate/Wakefield Kirkgate area, and that doesn't look like Wakefield to me - but I'm happy to be proved wrong.

Also the milepost style is wrong for Moorthorpe.

[Blandford1969]

On ‎28‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 15:28, jonny777 said:

 

 

Excellent inspiration Ian, and during the time spent scanning the rest of the slides I found a photo taken from the road bridge looking in the other direction, which virtually confirms the location as being the same as Eastwest's Google Map link. 

 

 

Sad views of Holmsley - when the road was being put in. Thanks for sharing them. I don't suppose you took any of West Moors?

Edited June 29, 2019 by Blandford1969
adding a question on West Moors

[jonny777]

Sadly, I did not take any of these photos. I just buy them to stop them going to the skip, scan them and then try to work out where they are. 

 

I have had a look, and I don't have any of West Moors that I have identified so far. 

 

 

[5BarVT]

51 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

then try to work out where they are. 

And the rest of us enjoy the challenge too.

Paul.

[billbedford]

On 03/02/2019 at 14:57, jonny777 said:

This looks as if it is crying out to be modelled, but I don't know the location. Is it York again? Or possibly Leeds? 

 

 

 

 

The three red coaches in the middle right of the shot are the ex LNER locomen's instruction train. One each of ex GER, NER and GCR

[DY444]

On 28/06/2019 at 15:05, Daveloco1 said:

 

Hi 

I know this goes along back but I've just picked up this thread.

Did you resolve the above location?

It looks familiar but the mile post is throwing me.

Suggestion: Moorthorpe where the 'slip' line leaves the Sheffield to York line and does down to meet the Doncaster to Leeds main line?

I know from my records Western Region locomotives often work through this junction. Spent many hours within the 'triangle'.

I cannot check now as I have not lived down that way for many years but from memory the relative heights of track and bridge design look right.

 

Dave

 

 

 

On 28/06/2019 at 15:24, jonny777 said:

Hi Dave. 

 

I don't believe the location was ever resolved. I think a few people suggested Cudworth and we left it at that. 

 

I will see if I can find an old railway map of the area to find out if the milepost could be correct for Moorthorpe. 

 

 

 

On 28/06/2019 at 16:11, iands said:

Hi Dave,

 

I think the mileage is wrong for Moorthorpe. If it were that line, 175 Mile Post would be around the Wakefield Westgate/Wakefield Kirkgate area, and that doesn't look like Wakefield to me - but I'm happy to be proved wrong.

 

On 28/06/2019 at 16:51, eastwestdivide said:

Also the milepost style is wrong for Moorthorpe.

 

I think it probably is Moorthorpe.

 

There is no doubt a tale to be told as to how that milepost came to be there which will probably be tied up with the changes over the years (eg closure of the Cudworth route etc) but leaving that to one side I think it is the mileage from St. Pancras.  The current SA shows a change of mileage at the site of the former Wath Curve Jn with the mileage at that point being 168m 64ch from St Pancras via Leicester, Toton and the old road, and 17m 15ch from the former Burton Salmon Jn.  Moorthorpe Jn is shown as 11m 24ch (from Burton Salmon Jn).  On that basis I make Moorthorpe Jn to be 174m 35ch from St. Pancras and thus 175 miles from St. Pancras would be towards the South Kirkby Jn end of the link line from Moorthorpe Jn (or about where the milepost is shown in the image).

 

Also at 21' 11" in this video:

 

 

the train passes under the bridge carrying the line from Moorthorpe towards Pontefract.  The bridge has had more protection added to the parapet (presumably in connection with the ECML electrification) but otherwise to me it looks remarkably similar to the one in the original image.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2019 by DY444

[eastwestdivide]

5 hours ago, DY444 said:

There is no doubt a tale to be told as to how that milepost came to be there which will probably be tied up with the changes over the years (eg closure of the Cudworth route etc) but leaving that to one side I think it is the mileage from St. Pancras.  The current SA shows a change of mileage at the site of the former Wath Curve Jn with the mileage at that point being 168m 64ch from St Pancras via Leicester, Toton and the old road, and 17m 15ch from the former Burton Salmon Jn.  Moorthorpe Jn is shown as 11m 24ch (from Burton Salmon Jn).  On that basis I make Moorthorpe Jn to be 174m 35ch from St. Pancras and thus 175 miles from St. Pancras would be towards the South Kirkby Jn end of the link line from Moorthorpe Jn (or about where the milepost is shown in the image).

Useful bit of detective work - a quick measure on gb.mapometer.com confirms that it's about 7 miles to the Moorthorpe curve from your 168m 64ch site of the junctions at Wath Road, so the maths adds up two ways. 

But would it be normal to have a spare Midland-style milepost hanging round the stores "just in case we need it" for that mileage?

I do ride the slow train via Moorthorpe to Leeds fairly often, so I'll try and have a look and see if the mileposts through Bolton on Dearne and Moorthorpe follow on in the 168-175 range.

Cudworth is also at MP175, according to https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/railref/ref-mr.html#840

 

[DY444]

2 hours ago, eastwestdivide said:

Useful bit of detective work - a quick measure on gb.mapometer.com confirms that it's about 7 miles to the Moorthorpe curve from your 168m 64ch site of the junctions at Wath Road, so the maths adds up two ways. 

But would it be normal to have a spare Midland-style milepost hanging round the stores "just in case we need it" for that mileage?

I do ride the slow train via Moorthorpe to Leeds fairly often, so I'll try and have a look and see if the mileposts through Bolton on Dearne and Moorthorpe follow on in the 168-175 range.

Cudworth is also at MP175, according to https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/railref/ref-mr.html#840

 

 

The milepost is definitely a bit of a puzzler because the current SA shows the mileages counting up from 0m at Burton Salmon towards Wath Road so you'd expect the mileposts to reflect that.  That's the reason for my comment about there possibly being a tale to be told about the milepost.  If that stretch has always been assessed from Burton Salmon (and it seems to me to be likely that it has) then there shouldn't be a 175 milepost there.  The only explanation I can think of is that after the Cudworth route was closed the milepost was recovered from Cudworth and replanted at 175 miles from St. Pancras on the Moorthorpe route, and the picture dates from after that.  

Edited June 30, 2019 by DY444

[russ p]

If you look on the Swinton and knottingly of that site moorthorpe is shown as 174 so would thing 175 on the curve is about right 

[eastwestdivide]

Just found some info here: http://www.midlandrailway.org.uk/occasional-papers/midland-mile-posts/

 

which says:

Quote

The Swinton & Knottingley line was maintained by the Midland as far as the bridge at Moorthorpe over the West Riding & Grimsby line and it therefore received new Midland mileposts over this section. Many of these have now gone, to be replaced by “second-hand” North Eastern mileposts, but there is a very good Midland 174 ¾ post still in place on the Moorthorpe Station Junction to South Kirkby Junction curve, where it can be easily seen from any Sheffield to Wakefield service taking the S&K route.

 

and this site: https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/railref/ref-sk.html#006

has 

174m55c Moorthorpe Station Junction
175m31c South Kirkby Junction

 

which all supports the Moorthorpe suggestion.

[Daveloco1]

Hi Guys

I seemed to have opened a can of worms sorry!

The cab ride brought back lots of memories I rode Leeds to Wakefield Westgate many times in the early 70's and South Elmsall to Doncaster in the 80's when lived at Hemsworth.

When I go to see my mum next I'll try and detour and see if I can get a corresponding photograph of the slip curve.

Dave

 

[jonny777]

Thanks Dave. We like cans of worms on this thread. At least I may end up with the correct info in the end. A current photo would be great, thanks. 

 

Going off at a slight tangent to the location questions, are there any Brush 4 experts out there who could identify this example at Teignmouth circa 1990, please?

 

I can't quite read either the name or the number on the original, but the name is relatively short and appears to be just one word. The loco has large logo livery but with smaller numbers than usually seen on this livery. 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by jonny777
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