MarkSG Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Part of the problem with motorising it is that you run up against the fact that the laws of physics don't scale. Trying to recreate the movements of a crane in action, lifting and moving something, is very hard to make realistic in 1/76. And the complexity of controlling it is just as much a challenge. The simultaneous multidimensional movements of a crane (hook rise/fall, jib rise/fall, jib yaw left/right) don't easily map onto a typical model railway DCC controller, which is essentially just speed and direction for locos plus binary off/on for things like points, signals and lighting. You'd need something more akin to a model aircraft controller with twin joysticks. That's not to say it can't be done, of course. But it does raise the question of whether doing it, at least factory fitted, is cost-effective. Would enough people pay the price of a motorised version to recoup development costs? To be honest, I doubt it. I think most of us who buy this will use it one of two ways, either as a static posed scene, or in motion as part of a breakdown train en route. And there's no reason, of course, why we can't do both at different times. 3 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 27, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 27, 2019 53 minutes ago, truffy said: Static ≠ Movement ≠ Function Looks like the prototype. Moves like the prototype. Works like the prototype. Point is, it depends on whether you apply the adjective 'static' to the movement around the railway or the job of being a crane. Exactly so. Having worked with cranes - including one of those which will be produced by Bachmann - they did little more than that. They were either moving to or from site or when they were at site they were set-up and standing in one place in order to do their work (or they were stabled at home depot). As far as a layout is concerned they are most likely to be either stabled or moving to/from site although they would obviously be suitable for a diorama of one working at site potentially slewed and with the jib up. No doubt a few people will want to play with one lifting things for a bit of fun or amusement but in my view (and so it wonder appear Bachmann's) that hardly provides a market for a massively more expensive crane. 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 I have a fancy to add one gimmick, and that's smoke. As we all know smoke oil units cannot realistically represent the voluminous output of a hardworking steam loco. But the little trickle from the crane boiler while it is parked up waiting its move to the site of that night's civil's work, that can be done. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said: I can't see why all the angst is being generated by this model, it's a niche model that won't be the best seller that Bachmann have ever had, so the price won't ever be cheap, just good value for money. Also, why is it percieved as a static model?, I saw plenty on the move, even took pictures at the time, so it ticks all the boxes. Maybe some people are scared of actually having to do some modelling and build/modify the support stock! Mike. My use of static m odel was probably NOT the best word to use, BUT I was referencing it to the use of umpteen motors to run everything on it. I also said I could not see many people standing around fiddle farting with all the controls to actually run it as a crane operating. (Meaning of course lifting and lowering) It does NOT mean it would not be moving about on a train as has been mentioned. I think the concensus, before and since is much in agreement with my sentiments. However it does not mean it isn't a great model to have on a layout and I do hope it sells very well for them. Khris Khris 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craneman Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, Michael Delamar said: Does anyone have a shot of the Gorton crane during the 50s/60s period and also of the other vehicles, tool vans, coaches etc it would have been seen with? http://www.bdca.org.uk/gallery/index.php/Ransomes-and-Rapier/ADRR95215-Album The only R&R 45-tonner to have forced draughting. Very bizarre! Edited March 27, 2019 by craneman 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 22 hours ago, The Stationmaster said: Exactly so. Having worked with cranes - including one of those which will be produced by Bachmann - they did little more than that. They were either moving to or from site or when they were at site they were set-up and standing in one place in order to do their work (or they were stabled at home depot). As far as a layout is concerned they are most likely to be either stabled or moving to/from site although they would obviously be suitable for a diorama of one working at site potentially slewed and with the jib up. No doubt a few people will want to play with one lifting things for a bit of fun or amusement but in my view (and so it wonder appear Bachmann's) that hardly provides a market for a massively more expensive crane. As I've probably said before, Derby 4-Shed used their crane for lifting locos needing repairs (presumably in lieu of the sheerlegs) as there was no wheel drop, . You could set up your crane on your depot lifting one end of a loco to get the wheels out etc. Edited March 28, 2019 by Poor Old Bruce 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted April 21, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2019 (edited) Quite hard to photograph with a camera phone pressed against the glass but took these at the York Show Edited April 21, 2019 by MikeParkin65 17 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pre Grouping fan Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 That decoration is seriously impressive. All those plates on the chassis look readable. And the lining looks superb Really made me seriously consider ordering one 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted April 21, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Pre Grouping fan said: That decoration is seriously impressive. All those plates on the chassis look readable. And the lining looks superb Really made me seriously consider ordering one I wouldn't bother, according to the previous doom mongers hereabouts, it's too expensive/not fully electrically operational/the wrong type of crane for your region/the wrong colour etc etc. Personally, I can't wait for October(ish). Mike. 4 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Boar Fell Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 That is looking seriously superb. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pre Grouping fan Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 28 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said: I wouldn't bother, according to the previous doom mongers hereabouts, it's too expensive/not fully electrically operational/the wrong type of crane for your region/the wrong colour etc etc. Personally, I can't wait for October(ish). Mike. Technically it is the wrong region. Im a southern region modeller and the BR early crane model is an LNER example but its the crane preserved on the Bluebell Railway. Plus to me the SR model looks bland in plain grey. Just checked the Bachmann availability page and they are noe due December (if that can be believed) 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted April 21, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2019 4 hours ago, Pre Grouping fan said: Technically it is the wrong region. Im a southern region modeller and the BR early crane model is an LNER example but its the crane preserved on the Bluebell Railway. Plus to me the SR model looks bland in plain grey. Just checked the Bachmann availability page and they are noe due December (if that can be believed) I must be getting psychic powers, I was only generalising and being flippant! Mike. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pre Grouping fan Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Haha, yeah I realise but sometimes its a genuine issue faced by people like me trying to justify the expense even if it is a excellent model! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Lovely! I could (almost) justify the cost (especially if I don't tell the CFO). But even the SR (right region) is too late for my pre-war era. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said: Quite hard to photograph with a camera phone pressed against the glass but took these at the York Show Does look a wonderful model. However is the boiler-side lining the right size? Based on this picture, the pannel on the real thing seems to be a bit wider/more square. http://www.bdca.org.uk/gallery/index.php/Ransomes-and-Rapier/ADRR95215-Album/scan0001 This is the only picture I an find of 122. Perhaps Bachmann have pictures of both sides of the crane? Not saying they are wrong, just point out differences with this one pic. Also Crane 122 was unique with a reinforcing plate along the jib (see pics here) http://www.bdca.org.uk/gallery/index.php/Ransomes-and-Rapier/ADRR95215-Album/Derailment-at-Woodhead/95215-Woodhead-1951-4-Ben-Brooksbank I can't find the ref on the bdca website, but somewhere it refers to damage on a weakened embankment in wartime. I guess too much of a unique difference for Bachmann to capture on this already niche model. Sadly the doubler plate appears to be the reason for the break in the jib lining, so the discrepency is noted. Edited April 21, 2019 by G-BOAF 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Boar Fell Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, G-BOAF said: Does look a wonderful model. However is the boiler-side lining the right size? Based on this picture, the pannel seems to be a bit wider/more square. http://www.bdca.org.uk/gallery/index.php/Ransomes-and-Rapier/ADRR95215-Album/scan0001 The side in the above photo is the opposite side to that shown in the photo of the Bachmann model. The former is wider as the side sheet extends further towards the front of the crab than that on the RHS. So the Bachmann model is correct as I understand it. Below hopefully illustrates the above and its effect on the lined panel. Please note this is NOT the Bachmann model, show purely to illustrate a point. I know I wasn't up to lining or lettering mine fully, and am grateful of Steve (Grimy Times) for the lining & finish shown. LHS RHS Hope this helps. Wild Boar Fell 2 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hamlin Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 23 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said: Quite hard to photograph with a camera phone pressed against the glass but took these at the York Show Have always wanted one, really can’t wait now! Lovely views of the relieving bogie connections on your photo Mike. Very impressive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 13 hours ago, Wild Boar Fell said: The side in the above photo is the opposite side to that shown in the photo of the Bachmann model. The former is wider as the side sheet extends further towards the front of the crab than that on the RHS. So the Bachmann model is correct as I understand it. Below hopefully illustrates the above and its effect on the lined panel. Please note this is NOT the Bachmann model, show purely to illustrate a point. I know I wasn't up to lining or lettering mine fully, and am grateful of Steve (Grimy Times) for the lining & finish shown. LHS RHS Hope this helps. Wild Boar Fell Fully explains things I also now see that the side sheets are different sizes on each side, and that in both cases, the lining does not extend onto the counterweights. Very useful. As with all things, its a learning curve. The linked black crane certainly seems the most handsome of the varients offered. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 Couple of shots from York. 4 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craneman Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 it can't be denied that this is in a class of its own! Stunning job, Bachmann! 2 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) My one annoyance above the above pic is the conduit running over the printed plate clearly visible. Were it a wire component, it could have gone over the printing. As it is moulded, the printing is going over the top, which looks silly. Better to have left a gap in the printing (presumably on the prototype the conduit ran over the plate). Given the feast of detailed parts, it is rather strange that this bit is moulded. Won't stop me buying one... Edited April 24, 2019 by G-BOAF 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 2 hours ago, G-BOAF said: Better to have left a gap in the printing (presumably on the prototype the conduit ran over the plate). A quick stroke with a fine black marker? Regards, John Isherwood. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted April 24, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 24, 2019 1 hour ago, cctransuk said: A quick stroke with a fine black marker? Regards, John Isherwood. Don't be so ridiculous John, that's called modelling! Mike. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 Or that the plate as printed is too large? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimwal Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 5 hours ago, G-BOAF said: Or that the plate as printed is too large? Or is the conduit routed differently?. An after-market etched plate set may be the icing on the cake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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