45 ton Ransomes Crane

[polybear]

I also received the cancellation email (no surprises there),  Actually it quite suits me, cos' the price of the Crane (whilst very nice) has spiraled way beyond original estimates, justifiable or not.  Having a model costing the wrong side of a couple of hundred quid mostly sitting in a siding (which is what most will probably end up doing) doesn't stack up for me - I could get a couple of nice discounted locos for that.

[delticfan]

Quite pleased Hattons won’t be stocking Bachmann products, they’re over priced, out dated compared to say Accurascale etc. and the stuff takes way too long to reach the market from announcement. I can’t stand their cock sure attitude at shows and it’s about time they got a wake up call. I haven’t bought their stuff for years now, plenty other options out there. Prepared to get shot down in flames but that’s what I think.

[truffy]

1 hour ago, delticfan said:

out dated compared to say Accurascale etc. 

Accurascale are often held as an example of excellence, and while that may well be the case their scope is pretty limited. I'd be hard-pushed to think of anything that truly excites me.

 

If you're modelling 'modern image' (for want of a better term, please mentally replace with whatever suits) I'm sure they're the bees knees. But, realistically, they may be largely irrelevant for many early-era railway modellers compared to Bachmann.

Edited August 8, 2019 by truffy

[Gibbo675]

13 hours ago, delticfan said:

Quite pleased Hattons won’t be stocking Bachmann products, they’re over priced, out dated compared to say Accurascale etc. and the stuff takes way too long to reach the market from announcement. I can’t stand their cock sure attitude at shows and it’s about time they got a wake up call. I haven’t bought their stuff for years now, plenty other options out there. Prepared to get shot down in flames but that’s what I think.

Dear Delticfan,

 

I am most dreadfully sorry to hear about Bachmann and Hattons having a commercial contretemps, added to which, I got so very upset that that neither Bachmann nor Hattons were willing to produce in shiny boxes any of what is pictured I pulled my finger out and built it my self.

 

Building my own stuff caused my dopamine levels to remain almost constant and as a result I live a contented lifestyle with far less attachment to gaining instant gratification via the vicarious activities of others with the added bonus that, the only limitation to the options I have is that of my own imagination.

 

May I wish health and happiness to every living being upon Earth !!!

 

Gibbo.

[melmoth]

@Gibbo675  I particularly like the Freightliner "Caboose". Have you got any other pictures?

[Gibbo675]

27 minutes ago, melmoth said:

@Gibbo675  I particularly like the Freightliner "Caboose". Have you got any other pictures?

Hi Melmouth,

 

Thanks for your kind comments and your interest, there is plenty to look at on my thread linked in my signature.

 

The complete build and plenty of photographs of the Freightliner Caboose starts near the bottom of page 2, I can supply a drawing for the caboose should you be interested.

 

Gibbo.

[JSpencer]

17 hours ago, truffy said:

Accurascale are often held as an example of excellence, and while that may well be the case their scope is pretty limited. I'd be hard-pushed to think of anything that truly excites me.

 

If you're modelling 'modern image' (for want of a better term, please mentally replace with whatever suits) I'm sure they're the bees knees. But, realistically, they may be largely irrelevant for many early-era railway modellers compared to Bachmann.

 

I'm sure that is going to change! FWIW their wonderful Cemflo's cover late steam era and are now cheaper than Bachmann's Presflos.

 

[farren]

21 hours ago, JSpencer said:

 

I'm sure that is going to change! FWIW their wonderful Cemflo's cover late steam era and are now cheaper than Bachmann's Presflos.

 

Yes, but their no good if you want presflos, a Jubilee or any other of the hundreds of Bachmann products. 

[delticfan]

Gibbo your models look top notch and as a kit builder I fully appreciate the benefits of kit building on pocket and mind alike. My gripe with Bachmann is the, here you are take it or leave attitude they seem to have, its not fair to those who fork out the high prices for old models that are past their best and the new models they drag out over years for the only reason to put off a competitor producing themselves. For that reason I applaud Hattons stance with them.

[truffy]

29 minutes ago, delticfan said:

For that reason I applaud Hattons stance with them.

AFAIK, we don't know the basis for the stance between the two. Can you enlighten?

[Gibbo675]

15 minutes ago, delticfan said:

Gibbo your models look top notch and as a kit builder I fully appreciate the benefits of kit building on pocket and mind alike. My gripe with Bachmann is the, here you are take it or leave attitude they seem to have, its not fair to those who fork out the high prices for old models that are past their best and the new models they drag out over years for the only reason to put off a competitor producing themselves. For that reason I applaud Hattons stance with them.

Dear Delticfan,

 

Many thanks for your kind compliments.

 

What I shall say is that all things upon the Earth are by way of consent, what we consent to like and what we consent to purchase is bye way of free will, how you feel abut anything or anyone is your choice, it may be neither right nor wrong, it only is.

 

It may however amuse both you and farren, of the above post, that all 28 of my Presflos are Dapol kits, there are 24 BR bauxite cement wagons and 4 ICI blue salt wagons. The price was an irrelevance to me, it was the building of them that was the thrill though.

 

All things upon Earth may be measured in a variety of ways, the love of creation is however is within the realm of the Heavens and is therefore immeasurable, therein lies the thrill of Presflos built form Dapol kits !

 

Gibbo.

 

PS "The recognition of madness, even within oneself is the true path to sanity." - Schoppenhauer

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, delticfan said:

... its not fair to those who fork out the high prices for old models that are past their best and the new models they drag out over years for the only reason to put off a competitor producing themselves.

 

No-one is forcing anyone to buy Bachmann's products.

 

You have chosen to boycott them - but I can't see that worrying Bachmann; nor can I see your action, or that of Hattons, materially affecting Bachmann's overall sales.

 

In fact, there may well be a consequential surge in business for smaller retailers - which has to be good for the survival of UK model railway outlets.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[The Stationmaster]

32 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

No-one is forcing anyone to buy Bachmann's products.

 

You have chosen to boycott them - but I can't see that worrying Bachmann; nor can I see your action, or that of Hattons, materially affecting Bachmann's overall sales.

 

In fact, there may well be a consequential surge in business for smaller retailers - which has to be good for the survival of UK model railway outlets.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

I understand that some other retailers have already benefitted from Hattons no longer being supplied by Bachmann.

[JSpencer]

3 hours ago, farren said:

Yes, but their no good if you want presflos, a Jubilee or any other of the hundreds of Bachmann products. 

 

My point is Bachmann were fairly irrelevent in their early days but within 5 to 10 years they were chasing Hornby for number one spot. This thanks to setting new levels in their products and great service. Watch this space but Accurascale are growing fast and could well be in a position to go across all eras within a short space of time.

Anyway Bachmann have not disappeared. The recent event has reset my order book, crane included. But given that very little of what Bachmann releases now, rarely clears off the shelves within 6 weeks, I'll be waiting to see how good the crane is and whether or not they discount it after the 6 week limited period.

 

The downside is, other shops may be reluctant to pre-order an increase in stock following Hattons removal if the whole event barely makes an increase to their pre-order books in the process. It has been too easy to blame this "new" competition for recent down turns.

 

The product is only worth what people are prepared to pay for it. As a pricing strategist, it is door that swings both ways. When we are thinking of launching a new product, we have a survey with 1000 of our customers to determine what the price should be. The replies to a series of questions draw 4 graphs, and were pairs of lines intersect then this where the price should be. If your cost base is above them then you know not to bother. If its way below them, you know your margins can be great and its a thing to focus on. And so on....

The Model industry seems to be largly cost + (my cost plus margin) which is not effective strategy these days as you could be left with stock or fail to maximise returns.

 

The crane is lovely and my only reason for eventually buying one will be because it is the Bluebell preserved one and nothing else. 

[paul 27]

Could this be the Gorton crane looks in black livery with possibly red support coaches, borrowed from

the Stockport Tiviot  Dale post  taken some time in the 60s.

[craneman]

Yes, that would appear to be the Gorton crane.

[G-BOAF]

Kernow Model Centre's weekly email suggests delivery of the crane is (still) scheduled for December.

[G-BOAF]

What are the weird protrusions on the chimney on the BR Crane?

[Pre Grouping fan]

Part of a handle to pull it down before moving? Also where is that image from? I noticed it featured in the update video but not that image 

[G-BOAF]

1 hour ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

Part of a handle to pull it down before moving? Also where is that image from? I noticed it featured in the update video but not that image 

Photo is from Andy's Bachmann update thread.

I can't find the update video so can't comment, but it might be a still from the video

[MG 7305]

My  bet is that the chimney is out of gauge when in the use position and therefore hinges back onto the back of the cab/shelter when in the travelling position.  The "handles" keep the chimney away from direct contact with the shelter to avoid damage to both when in the travelling position.

 

Best regards

[craneman]

On 15/09/2019 at 17:27, G-BOAF said:

What are the weird protrusions on the chimney on the BR Crane?

 

They are representations of the chimney lifting gear fitted to the Southern and LNER versions of the crane, but they only really make sense as moulded with the chimney in the dropped (running) position. In the photo, the man with the knob has clearly flipped the chimney up to allow the winding knob to be inserted, hence the strange attitude of the lifting gear.

 

[G-BOAF]

18 hours ago, craneman said:

 

They are representations of the chimney lifting gear fitted to the Southern and LNER versions of the crane, but they only really make sense as moulded with the chimney in the dropped (running) position. In the photo, the man with the knob has clearly flipped the chimney up to allow the winding knob to be inserted, hence the strange attitude of the lifting gear.

 

So if we want the crane posed 'in use', will Bachmann be supplying an alternative chimney>? It would seem to be more sensible to have had those parts as included for the user to fit, than mould them onto the chimney... or maybe that is the case and they have been glued on to this review sample?

Bit silly to have a fully functional crane, and then detail that is only used in stowed position

Edited September 17, 2019 by G-BOAF

[craneman]

That is a question I cannot answer, I am afraid, you'll have to wait until we get a review sample.  It is not easy to tell for sure which cranes ever had lifting gear (it is likely that the SR and the LNER did, not the GW) and the lengths of the chimneys also varied from early on. Almost all the cranes that had lifting gear lost it fairly quickly. The only crane which seems to have retained a long chimney with lifting gear for any length of time is the Gorton crane, which is the one modelled in the photo which prompted this discussion.

 

Generally speaking the chimneys were seldom used on the 45-tonners, since they are heavy to lift into position and tend to impair rather than improve the drafting of the boiler (the Gorton crane, which seems to have retained the ridiculous long chimney longer than any other, had its exhaust modified to to provide forced drafting, the only UK breakdown crane ever to be so modified, probably to allow steam generation with the chimney erected).

 

I have just had a trawl though my R&R 45-tonner photo collection of over a hundred photos of the cranes throughout their operating careers, and in only about 2% of those showing them working are the chimneys being used at all.  Apart from the Gorton crane, the only photos showing cranes with lifting gear still fitted actually don't have chimneys fitted at all - just the lifting gear. I cannot find a single photo of a crane with lifting gear with the chimney raised, and if fact this has hindered Bachmann's representation of the lifting gear since we simply don't know  what it looked like in the "up" position.  The lifting gear was used only in conjunction with the original extremely long chimneys (although some cranes retained the gear when the long chimneys were cut down to an intermediate length), never with the short ones. It is probably therefore more accurate to pose your model with the chimney down than up. 

It should be understood that it really was very rare indeed for the chimneys on these cranes to be used at all, they don't really do anything useful, and the boiler steams better without them. They are also heavy and awkward to raise (without the lifting gear you have to climb on the cab roof and heave them into position, and it is both difficult and dangerous). I have never bothered with this aggro when operating a 45-tonner (and the back of you neck still gets filthy when driving one whether the chimney is up or down). 

Edited September 17, 2019 by craneman

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Presumably the chimney couldn't be lifted anyway when working under OHLE as the knitting would get in the way?

 

Mike.