Butler Henderson Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Cannot help thinking it might have been better to offer it with running numbers and depot markings supplied separately to be applied by the owner; the market must be limited and even more so when the particular version is marked for a depot completely inappropriate for where a layout is set. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Cannot help thinking it might have been better to offer it with running numbers and depot markings supplied separately to be applied by the owner; the market must be limited and even more so when the particular version is marked for a depot completely inappropriate for where a layout is set. Possibly - but as has been said time after time, selling anonymous models seems to suppress sales, with buyers put-off because they simply don't fancy putting on decals themselves. In this instance, and due in part to the price, it would probably put off a significant proportion of collectors too, and that fraternity will be a target market for this model, I suspect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Cannot help thinking it might have been better to offer it with running numbers and depot markings supplied separately to be applied by the owner; the market must be limited and even more so when the particular version is marked for a depot completely inappropriate for where a layout is set. Another issue is that with the number of detail variations Bachmann are tooling for (different cylinders, jib runner, chimney), even a 'blank' model would be limited to a couple of examples, unlike, say a TTG 'as built' 47 which could cover hundreds of individual locos within a particular set of details. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Another issue is that with the number of detail variations Bachmann are tooling for (different cylinders, jib runner, chimney), even a 'blank' model would be limited to a couple of examples, unlike, say a TTG 'as built' 47 which could cover hundreds of individual locos within a particular set of details. It's also just occurred to me that the labelling diagram for any example is likely be pretty extensive, not to say tricky to get right.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 It's also just occurred to me that the labelling diagram for any example is likely be pretty extensive, not to say tricky to get right.... Indeed In that instance, you'd be better of just paying TMC £40 to do a renumber/relettering, which is small fry compared to the cost of the model. You would end up with a better job than the complexity of numbering up a blank example 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Downer Posted January 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) Bachmann could include alternative numbering/labelling with the planned models, thus allowing those who wanted to to make changes. Edited January 25, 2019 by Downer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Bachmann could include alternative numbering/labelling with the planned models, thus allowing those who wanted too to make changes. ...and an increase in retail price. They're damned if they do or don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craneman Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Re. lettering and numbering, remember that after the first few years no two cranes were exactly alike, for example at no time apart from first delivery did 1560 and 1561 carry identical markings, similarly the four GW cranes were all different by 1947 or so. Given that the market is relatively small for this model, what proportion of that market (a) could be bothered to 'finish' a part-finished model, and (b) actually has sufficient knowledge to know what a particular crane looked like on a particular day? Very, very small, I suggest. Furthermore I would suggest that someone that committed to getting a model 100% correct would quite happily repaint one in its entirety to get what they wanted. Whereas locomotives and most rolling stock were painted and lettered in accordance with corporate directives and generally were much the same, no such conditions were applied to cranes, hence the massive variations. The Bachmann releases are all specifically based upon extensive research and authenticated photographs and are provable to be correct for that crane on that occasion. It may only have been for that particular day/week/month, but it is correct. It is all very well saying that Bachmann could provide alternative numbers, but there would be cost to this (both in terms of the actual transfers etc and the research and placement instructions). Why should those who are happy with an extremely accurate model from the box pay for this? Buy your own numbers if you want to! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 25, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) Cannot help thinking it might have been better to offer it with running numbers and depot markings supplied separately to be applied by the owner; the market must be limited and even more so when the particular version is marked for a depot completely inappropriate for where a layout is set. True but don't forget needs must and cranes could well work a long way from their home depot when needed, even for pre-planned jobs, so for example the Old oak Common Crane No 16 covered its own WR patch ( London Operating District) in 1960 plus it could be called upon to assist on the following sections off the WR - ER - Kings Cross to Hitchin via Hatfield or Hertford LMR Acton Wells to Willesden and to Brent, Euston to Bletchley, St Pancras to Luton SR. A long list but basically London area out as far as Guikdford, Horsham, east Croydon, Herne Hill, Rochester and Bickley Jcn (via various routes and sections in between WR boundary and those end points). LT Ealing to White City and Westbourne Park to Hammersmith The Old Oak Common crane was, for example, used to assist in clearance and re-railing work following the terrible triple collision at Harrow and Wealdstone in 1952. No 18 at Cardiff also covered the entire Bristol Operating Divisions as well as its own Operating division. Edited January 25, 2019 by The Stationmaster 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craneman Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) On 24/01/2019 at 12:03, MikeParkin65 said: Excellent detailed article on rail mounted travelling cranes in this months Steam Days magazine Whilst the article is essentially good I have to say that I am always disappointed when a supposedly authoritative article in a serious title cannot get the name of 'Jubilee' number 45637 correct. I don't know if it is ignorance or simply a lack of care or precision, but the number of organs to get this wrong both staggers and depresses me. The locomotive was named "Windward Islands", not "Windward Isles"! There have never been islands named "Windward Isles", let alone a locomotive. In this particular article the situation is not improved by the fact that one photo caption has it wrong, the next has it right. Are there no proof-readers anymore? If a book, magazine, or what-have-you cannot get a fact as basic as the name of the possibly the best-known 'Jubilee' right, how can the reader have any faith in any of the other "facts" it represents. Shocking. Edited February 5, 2019 by craneman spelling 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted February 5, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said: Best know? Don't know if that is the case but it was one of the locomotives destroyed in the dreadful Harrow and Wealdstone disaster in 1952; the other being 46202. Misspelling and a general sloppiness in editing for inaccuracies is by no means confined to the magazine press these days.Taking an occasional look at BBC captioning on its News 24 Channel demonstrates this point.Ah well,it's a cold and frosty morning here.Rain later 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted February 5, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said: Don't know if that is the case but it was one of the locomotives destroyed in the dreadful Harrow and Wealdstone disaster in 1952; the other being 46202. Misspelling and a general sloppiness in editing for inaccuracies is by no means confined to the magazine press these days.Taking an occasional look at BBC captioning on its News 24 Channel demonstrates this point.Ah well,it's a cold and frosty morning here.Rain later Or in posts, especially minne! Edited February 5, 2019 by Mallard60022 To edit silly joke and to congratulate Ian on subtoilgrammaticoilspacinung . 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said: Don't know if that is the case but it was one of the locomotives destroyed in the dreadful Harrow and Wealdstone disaster in 1952; the other being 46202. Misspelling and a general sloppiness in editing for inaccuracies is by no means confined to the magazine press these days.Taking an occasional look at BBC captioning on its News 24 Channel demonstrates this point.Ah well,it's a cold and frosty morning here.Rain later Absolutely. It has been said that adverbs have not yet reached California. The BBC news site seems to have taken one more step and abandoned adjectives. In addition to the common “Belgium” instead of “Belgian” every other country seems to have its name used in place of the derived adjective. It’s Ben Ando’s fault. He has spent too much time designing and marketing models instead of supervising the BBC. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 5, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2019 2 hours ago, No Decorum said: Absolutely. It has been said that adverbs have not yet reached California. The BBC news site seems to have taken one more step and abandoned adjectives. In addition to the common “Belgium” instead of “Belgian” every other country seems to have its name used in place of the derived adjective. It’s Ben Ando’s fault. He has spent too much time designing and marketing models instead of supervising the BBC. Can't have Ben A criticised - he actually refers to railway stations, not 'train stations', when he has broadcast any news items relating to such places. It's just the others at the BBC who haven't learnt from him!! 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted February 5, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2019 I have mixed feelings about cranes. Sure, I like them, but I'm not sure about seeing them. I always get some sort of feeling that something's gone seriously wrong to see one on the move, and someone's life could be involved. I'm sure it will look good, but I'm not sure I'd buy one. Too much of a portent of doom. Funny, but that's the way it is. Ian. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 35 minutes ago, tomparryharry said: I have mixed feelings about cranes. Sure, I like them, but I'm not sure about seeing them. I always get some sort of feeling that something's gone seriously wrong to see one on the move, and someone's life could be involved. They often got used for infrastructure work and were star attractions at open days. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craneman Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 12 hours ago, tomparryharry said: I have mixed feelings about cranes. Sure, I like them, but I'm not sure about seeing them. I always get some sort of feeling that something's gone seriously wrong to see one on the move, and someone's life could be involved. I'm sure it will look good, but I'm not sure I'd buy one. Too much of a portent of doom. Funny, but that's the way it is. Ian. The great majority of derailments and incidents do not involve injury or loss of life, though undeniably something will have gone wrong. Some statistics are quite surprising (a quote from the BDCA website, http://bdca.org.uk/demise.html):- Quote There were 415832 freight vehicles on Britain’s railway system in 1970, and 10182 derailments in that year. In 1987, the number of freight vehicles had reduced to 74247 (of which 25809 were service vehicles, not revenue earning) and the number of derailments to 3171. More than 80% of those derailments occurred in yards and sidings and they were often of a very minor nature. The number of recorded derailments continued to drop from thereon, to about 230 in 1992 and as few as 125 in 2001. When Stratford shed was sent a newly-converted (from steam to diesel-hydraulic) 75-ton Cowans Sheldon crane in 1977, its breakdown train was being called out on average 300 times a year (and the new crane initially proved so unreliable that Stratford refused to release the 45-ton steam crane that had been allocated to it temporarily whilst the 75-tonner was being converted). The reason that the number of derailments has decreased so dramatically is, of course, due to the elimination of the loose-coupled freight train made up of short-wheelbase vehicles with archaic suspension, rather than any other reason, and this also clearly identifies that nature of the vast majority of derailments in the old days. It is also the reason why the number of breakdown cranes on Britain's railways has reduced from its peak of around 125 to a mere four today. In reality the chances were that if you saw a breakdown crane on the railway whatever it was doing did not involve loss of life or injury, although there were, of course, exceptions. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 12 hours ago, Butler Henderson said: They often got used for infrastructure work and were star attractions at open days. Swing a group of paying visitors around above the exhibits in an open container, was certainly a feature of LNER open days. (I believe the small fee for this was typically a fund raiser for the railway orphanages which were such a feature of the railway's social provision.) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 6, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 6, 2019 14 hours ago, tomparryharry said: I have mixed feelings about cranes. Sure, I like them, but I'm not sure about seeing them. I always get some sort of feeling that something's gone seriously wrong to see one on the move, and someone's life could be involved. I'm sure it will look good, but I'm not sure I'd buy one. Too much of a portent of doom. Funny, but that's the way it is. Ian. In reality you only needed a crane, or cranes, for really serious derailment jobs and they probably spent as much time doing infrastructure jobs as they did anything else and of course they got all over the place on that sort of work. As far as dealing with derailments was concerned cranes could be a downright nuisance - they needed time to set up plus adjacent lines to be blocked if they were still available for traffic. For most derailments it was quicker to use jacks, particularly the hydraulic MFD gear once it became available and other things and of course there were some situations where cranes couldn't work anyway. I can't remember how many derailments I dealt with over the years but most were in yards or sidings and I only worked with a crane on two occasions - once with the Old Oak Common 45ton steam crane and once with its diesel replacement which was only used because it was job near the depot and the Breakdown Supervisor wanted to give it a try 'in anger' after spending several weeks trying to make sure that it actually worked (the job could probably have been done with jacks). Apologies for showing at work below the diesel replacement for a proper job R&R 45 ton crane - 6 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craneman Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 ^^^ Yes, it is amazing how many derailments had the inconsideration to take place directly under a bridge! OLE doesn't help either. I can only begin to imagine what the H&S Police would say nowadays about any proposal to lift a wagonload of general public with a breakdown crane at an open day! There is a comedy sketch in there, I suspect. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted February 7, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7, 2019 "Well, we undertook a risk assessment." "The results came back. It was indeed 'Risky." 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted February 7, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2019 Is this model going to be motorised? so that the crane actually works? Or is it going to be +/-£250 for a model that admittedly is highly detailed but has to be hand cranked similar to Hornby cranes. If it is not motorised it is a missed opportunity especially as may continental wagons seem to be able to incorporate DCC operated fittings on wagons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, 7013 said: Is this model going to be motorised? so that the crane actually works? Or is it going to be +/-£250 for a model that admittedly is highly detailed but has to be hand cranked similar to Hornby cranes. If it is not motorised it is a missed opportunity especially as may continental wagons seem to be able to incorporate DCC operated fittings on wagons. No, it's not going to be motorised. The complexity of what to motorise, how many motors would be needed and where they could fit.... And then the cost. £550 anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) I wonder if someone will have a go in motorising it? (Not me! Oh ! ) Cheers, Philip Edited February 7, 2019 by Philou Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pre Grouping fan Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Plus you wouldn't be able to run it in a train if it were motorised. The self propelled speed was walking pace so the gearing would have to reflect that and be able to be disengaged for when run in a train. Plus obviously the additional costs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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