Hornby Announce Peckett W4 0-4-0ST

[Steamport Southport]

Actually, in all seriousness for a moment, may I ask for clarification of one of your points regarding the Hornby Peckett - are you advocating that all future W4 releases should only be in liveries that were actually carried by real W4s, ie. the liveries of real UK industrial concerns that used them?

 

Yes that's the idea. Or preserved examples that have carried different liveries since withdrawal from industry. I think if they did the research they could find enough examples without having to resort to fictional liveries.

 

For example there's a lovely looking example here which is at the Sittingbourne and Kemsley Railway. Now I doubt that was it's original livery, but as it's preserved it's authentic. Needs a change to the dome/safety valves, but nothing drastic. But that would be a good version to produce.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peckett_W4_class#/media/File:SKLR_Bear.JPG

 

 

 

Jason

[Les1952]

Yes that's the idea. Or preserved examples that have carried different liveries since withdrawal from industry. I think if they did the research they could find enough examples without having to resort to fictional liveries.

 

For example there's a lovely looking example here which is at the Sittingbourne and Kemsley Railway. Now I doubt that was it's original livery, but as it's preserved it's authentic. Needs a change to the dome/safety valves, but nothing drastic. But that would be a good version to produce.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peckett_W4_class#/media/File:SKLR_Bear.JPG

 

 

 

Jason

 

Minus the dome cover and with the extra riveted patch on the tank, presumably.  And the motor can be reused elsewhere since it is plinthed.

 

Or maybe save 50p on the retail price and make it a dummy.....

 

Les

[PaulRhB]

Or preserved examples that have carried different liveries since withdrawal from industry.

Ring Ring . . . Ring Ring. . . Hello?

 

Bob I'm on the way with some paint to spruce up your W4, I found a nice purple . . .

[davknigh]

Having finally had my Peckett arrive I've taken a few measurements that might be pertinent to the P4 conversion discussion. The Hornby wheels will have to be turned down from their current 2.7mm thickness for a start. Gibson does have some 3'2" tyres that will suit so that should be one problem sorted. The real tight spot that I can see is in the spacing of the slide bars which are 24mm apart. By comparison the slide bars on my High Level RSH are 25.5 mm apart and even then we are talking fag paper clearances twixt cross heads and crank pins. Mention has been made elsewhere on this forum that the cross heads are a touch delicate on the Peckett and the Hornby crankpins will probably need some fettling before they sit properly in P4. And then there's the matter of suspension...

 

In short, doable but an etched chassis would be a big help.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[DougN]

Well on the fiction vs non fiction liveries. I'm with Capt. it doesn't really matter what colours they come out in people can always buy the model. I would suggest that as a brief list they can do colours blue, black, grotty, green, red and may be yellow before even going near fictional liveries. Now I have not researched this... but any of these colours will sell at all the moment.

 

As others have said the next batch should not be a repeat of the last batch. I agree with this as it will avoid the issues of large back stocks. Interestingly this might be forced as Chinese New Year kicks in... as I know from my suppliers we have Christmas and then from mid January to the end of February is basically the 6 weeks shut down of China. Now all for Mr Shen and Mrs Chin heading home to see their families. So we the consumers of their labor have to wait and think about our wish lists.

 

I would like to think that Hornby have another container already on the water heading towards the UK of the existing 3 so the rest of us who would like one can actually manage to get one. Though I doubt the at the moment as there doesn't seem to be any info from Hornby but everyone there may also be on leave due to Christmas so we will have to wait until next week to see what will come out of them.

[Jenny Emily]

At the very least, might Hornby consider another run in the same liveries, but with the real alternative identities of MSC number 12, the sister H&P Peckett and another alternative named (or even unnamed) Peckett standard green example? That way most of the tampo printing masters can be reused, keeping cost down, demand can be met, and quite a few of those who bought the present run might be tempted to buy another similar but different example. 

[adb968008]

Here's my thoughts on how a model goes from Hero to Zero in easy steps..

 

1. Model sells out.

2. 50 people phone round 10 shops looking for the last ones.

3. 10 Shop owners get 50 calls

4. Shop owner phones rep, says I could shift at least another two dozen, maybe more.

5. Collectively Rep gets 10 calls with at least 240 potential sales

6. Only takes 2 Reps to call the office, doubles this number to 480 looks good on targets, minimum runs, projections based on the "upside" potential: - all those "at leasts".

7. No one disagrees at the production meeting that the demand isn't there based on what salesforce says.

8. Model comes, with a % uplift in price due to everything that's going on in the world.

9. Some are sold, some others baulk at the price, or bought s/h, changed minds etc.

10. Everyone's got dozens of models, everyone blames the price rise, no need to order more.

11. Price is discounted in shops when the invoices come due, that "upside potential" gets closed off.

12. End of year comes and for everything else there's ebay.

13. Manufactures left with x00's stock as no follow up orders are recieved, balance sheet gets revised.

14. To break the cycle, manufacturer announces a new exciting model... return to step 1.

 

It's not just model railways, look at Hatchimals on ebay.. RRP £59, climbed upto £130+ by early December, (can't imagine why ???), tonight there in the £80's, with "unprecedented demand new stock is ordered and will be here in January"... 2 years ago it was Disney's Frozen..., shame it doesn't seem to work like this for petrol & food however.

Edited December 30, 2016 by adb968008

[brian777999]

Well on the fiction vs non fiction liveries. I'm with Capt. it doesn't really matter what colours they come out in people can always buy the model. I would suggest that as a brief list they can do colours blue, black, grotty, green, red and may be yellow before even going near fictional liveries. Now I have not researched this... but any of these colours will sell at all the moment.

 

As others have said the next batch should not be a repeat of the last batch. I agree with this as it will avoid the issues of large back stocks. Interestingly this might be forced as Chinese New Year kicks in... as I know from my suppliers we have Christmas and then from mid January to the end of February is basically the 6 weeks shut down of China. Now all for Mr Shen and Mrs Chin heading home to see their families. So we the consumers of their labor have to wait and think about our wish lists.

 

I would like to think that Hornby have another container already on the water heading towards the UK of the existing 3 so the rest of us who would like one can actually manage to get one. Though I doubt the at the moment as there doesn't seem to be any info from Hornby but everyone there may also be on leave due to Christmas so we will have to wait until next week to see what will come out of them.

 

I am hoping for something in Crimson Lake ( or just ''lake'' as it was known by the GWR). This seemed to be a popular colour for many railway companies in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. A loco always looks smart when painted in this colour and given some yellow lining.

Edited December 30, 2016 by brian777999

[sb67]

Does anyone know if there are any Pecketts left anywhere or if and when Hornby will be sending out more. I'f contacted a couple of traders and they couldn't help?

Steve

[Tim Hall]

Nowt wrong with a purple loco

[Dunsignalling]

Yes that's the idea. Or preserved examples that have carried different liveries since withdrawal from industry. I think if they did the research they could find enough examples without having to resort to fictional liveries.

 

For example there's a lovely looking example here which is at the Sittingbourne and Kemsley Railway. Now I doubt that was it's original livery, but as it's preserved it's authentic. Needs a change to the dome/safety valves, but nothing drastic. But that would be a good version to produce.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peckett_W4_class#/media/File:SKLR_Bear.JPG

 

 

 

Jason

The whole point about the standard Peckett factory livery is that many (if not most) of the locos built spent a hefty chunk of their lives in it, whilst in the ownership of numerous different companies. 

 

The H&P and MSC models are very noticeably tied to specific geographical locations and companies. That makes them more inherently suited to the wants of collectors rather than modellers. 'Dodo' (renamed or not) won't look out of place working for any industry, wherever ones layout is set.

 

Even if "working" for a fictitious company, the loco will look convincing. Some may decide to take it further by invoking Rule One and rechristening their loco(s) however they like or pretending that 'Dodo' changed hands. 

 

OK, it then becomes, in effect, a fictitious loco, but I don't consider that to be any worse than inventing a new meaning for the initials "MSC" or conjuring up an imaginary biscuit factory to justify the presence of a specific model.

 

John

[Dick Turpin]

Does anyone know if there are any Pecketts left anywhere or if and when Hornby will be sending out more. I'f contacted a couple of traders and they couldn't help?

Steve

I've just given up and will wait for the next batch. I've a feeling we'll know more after the 4th Jan.

[t8hants]

Being fairly new to the modern world of railway modelling, am I correct in thinking that Hornby must believe they will sell more models to collectors by producing locos that are livery and area specific, rather than generic?

I would have assumed perhaps wrongly that layout operators would want a green one, or a blue one,  perhaps even black etc as they can fit on any suitable layout scenario, are there more collectors than operators now?

Not realising that supplies would so limited for Dodo, and the others not being of interest because of their specific nature I have missed out this time around.

I am also begging to wonder if I should have gone 0 gauge, as the prices of the two seem to be converging, but you get a bigger lump for your buck, even though I suspect the overall costs per layout are very similar.

Edited December 30, 2016 by t8hants

[brian777999]

The costs of O gauge locos are coming down but the O gauge wagons are still much more expensive than OO gauge wagons. I love building wagons but it is the cost of O gauge wagons kits that put me off the larger scale.

[Arthur]

 

 

It may be current Hornby thinking is that adult/serious modellers will only buy locomotives in authentic liveries and that is certainly true for main line stock. They may have carried this over into their industrial locomotive models without them realising or understanding the way the modeller may use them, and the way that Minerva have exploited the market for generic industrial liveries so successfully.

 

Authentic industrial liveries will please the collector market whilst being less useful to those wishing to run them in a fictional setting.

 

.

[31A]

Does anyone know if there are any Pecketts left anywhere or if and when Hornby will be sending out more. I'f contacted a couple of traders and they couldn't help?

Steve

 

 

One (MSC) at Monk Bar Model Shop, York according to their web site - they do on line retailing:

 

http://www.monkbarmodelshop.co.uk/model-railways/oo-gauge-model-railways/Hornby-oo-locomotives/43423-r3428-peckett-0-4-0t-msc-11.html

[tractionman]

One (MSC) at Monk Bar Model Shop, York according to their web site - they do on line retailing:

 

http://www.monkbarmodelshop.co.uk/model-railways/oo-gauge-model-railways/Hornby-oo-locomotives/43423-r3428-peckett-0-4-0t-msc-11.html

Also Dodo listed at Holt Model Railways

 

http://www.holtmodelrailways.com/index.htm

 

Search under Peckett.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

Edited December 30, 2016 by Keith Lilley

[Izzy]

Having finally had my Peckett arrive I've taken a few measurements that might be pertinent to the P4 conversion discussion. The Hornby wheels will have to be turned down from their current 2.7mm thickness for a start. Gibson does have some 3'2" tyres that will suit so that should be one problem sorted. The real tight spot that I can see is in the spacing of the slide bars which are 24mm apart. By comparison the slide bars on my High Level RSH are 25.5 mm apart and even then we are talking fag paper clearances twixt cross heads and crank pins. Mention has been made elsewhere on this forum that the cross heads are a touch delicate on the Peckett and the Hornby crankpins will probably need some fettling before they sit properly in P4. And then there's the matter of suspension...

 

In short, doable but an etched chassis would be a big help.

 

Cheers,

 

David

 

24mm is normally the distance over reasonable thickness coupling rods with recessed crankpins, with 25.5mm the normal mimimal distance between slidebars when P4 wheelsets are involved, so I would think that moving the cylinders/slidebars outwards is a basic necessity for both EM and P4 conversions if a replacement chassis is not used.

 

Given the overall look of the below footplate parts it seems rather a shame to throw it all away, yet I wonder what the overall effect would be with widened out cylinders and revised wheels since the general proportions look right as they are to my mind.

 

As to the Caley Pugs, well they could be made to look reasonable if not brilliant as a freelance model. Here's of poor shot of one from back in the '80's.

 

 

Izzy

[Butler Henderson]

Might be worth anyone looking for a Peckett to phone Hereford Models as they obviously have not had any online sales for a couple of days (web page is still down) 01432 352809

[Frappington Jct]

Does anyone know if there are any Pecketts left anywhere or if and when Hornby will be sending out more. I'f contacted a couple of traders and they couldn't help?

Steve

Maybe try ringing round the Antics branches - they haven't got any in store yet (all sitting at their central warehouse still apparently) but the Cardiff store has put one aside for me as and when they do arrive. I don't think Cardiff have any left to reserve but the person I spoke to seemed to think the others did

[toboldlygo]

Small and very well formed...

 

[Caledonian]

The whole point about the standard Peckett factory livery is that many (if not most) of the locos built spent a hefty chunk of their lives in it, whilst in the ownership of numerous different companies. 

 

The H&P and MSC models are very noticeably tied to specific geographical locations and companies. That makes them more inherently suited to the wants of collectors rather than modellers. 'Dodo' (renamed or not) won't look out of place working for any industry, wherever ones layout is set.

 

Even if "working" for a fictitious company, the loco will look convincing. Some may decide to take it further by invoking Rule One and rechristening their loco(s) however they like or pretending that 'Dodo' changed hands. 

 

OK, it then becomes, in effect, a fictitious loco, but I don't consider that to be any worse than inventing a new meaning for the initials "MSC" or conjuring up an imaginary biscuit factory to justify the presence of a specific model.

 

John

 

On the contrary the only identifying mark on the MSC Peckett is that easily removed spot of red paint with the number 11 - there is no MSC lettering or logo, so once the number's off its completely anonymous.

 

[incidentally its worth looking at the photie of the real MSC no.11 in the current issue of Hornby Magazine. The number plate is very chunky and quite unlike Hornby's printed one]

[Sweeps]

Having spent some of my youth involved with the restoration of a small Andrew Barclay saddle tank I an struck by how similar the Peckett chassis is to the Barclay, another class of industrial tank loco which I feel would also be very popular.

[bertiedog]

Well, the Huntley and Palmer Peckett has finally made it here in the Post, and we now have the problem of what to do with it on a Brewery industrial line .......I think the Biscuit factory will be off board, and occasional trains will go through the brewery sidings on the way to some other unspecified destinations. they could be collecting yeast of course!

More drivers, crew, and fittings to find or make, and some Kadee couplings arrived to experiment with in relation to the buffers and tight curves, not a worry with bogied US stock.

On NEM sockets aren't they meant to be a standard height? The Pecketts seem OK but other locos differ a bit.

Edited December 30, 2016 by bertiedog

[Newfish]

For those still wanting an elusive Peckett.. The Model Centre has them in stock still..

 

Jaymes