Hornby Announce Peckett W4 0-4-0ST

[JeremyC]

Absolutely splendid and a great picture of what puggies could do.

 

Pity too about the quality of the colour, but for anybody wondering there were a few good quality photies of the BAC Burntisland operation in Steam Days a couple of years ago which revealed the bodywork on the Pecketts to be a dark green - the MSC one is probably close enough, which makes me wonder given that the Culter Paper Mill one was also that colour whether Peckett changed their off-the-shelf stock colour for a darker version in later life?

BAC at Burntisland had two Pecketts, works nos 1376 of 1915 & 1579 of 1921, though neither was a W4 as they both had 10 x 15 inch cylinders and 2 foot 9 inch wheels. Edited January 7, 2017 by JeremyC

[Gilloverland]

Do tell....

Not much to it, I didn't see it with the body off but was told it has a small zimo chip hard wired on the side of the motor (where the standard Hornby 4pin plug and socket would be) and the smallest sugar cube at the front where the Hornby chip goes - there's a bit extra room as it was designed to have a fly wheel.

Also Jeremy at digitrains had added some extra pickups to aid current collection as there isn't much room for stay alive, although when I do mine I reckon if I ditch the NEM couplings I might get a capacitor between the frames at the back maybe...

[PaulRhB]

Well at least we can ask digitrains what parts they used.

[Andy Y]

I didn't see it with the body off 

 

If you do feel confident taking the body off (or getting back on more to the point!) I would be interested in seeing inside too as I did some measurements and it looked doubtful that the smallest cube would fit but not having one around to try I am very happy to be proved wrong.

[alastairq]

Go for the cheaper option...you make the noises, instead?

[Gilbert]

If you do feel confident taking the body off (or getting back on more to the point!) I would be interested in seeing inside too as I did some measurements and it looked doubtful that the smallest cube would fit but not having one around to try I am very happy to be proved wrong.

 

Some phots here Andy:

 

https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2016/12/25/Hornby-masterclass-peckett-w4-r3427/

 

Chris

[PaulRhB]

Chris, I think he means the sound installation

[Gilbert]

Chris, I think he means the sound installation

In which case I'd also be interested to see the insides!

[davknigh]

wow, not a Peckett but not a million miles from one of only 3 memories of working Industrial steam in the UK I was young enough to remember

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sharpeandrew/8068449532/

(not my picture)

The engine in question is an RSH, available in kit form from HighLevel. Another example can be seen here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vOW9gHT8ELU

 

Cheers,

 

David

[Steamport Southport]

 

 

The book says the locos were well liked on Pomona Docks with tight curves against other locos, but the complaint of the W4s was the lack of coal storage, the coal was stored on the footplate and difficulties raising steam, 11 later in life had considerable steaming difficulties.

 

 

They had bunkers in the cabs. Whilst not a great capacity it would have been sufficient for a small tank loco working in a dockyard. About the same as a Lancashire And Yorkshire Pug.

 

Water would have been a bigger priority. That would need replenishing every couple of hours or so, whether they were working hard or not. So they probably just topped the coal up when they visited the water supply.

 

 

Jason

[Porcy Mane]

...are you doing the Bowburn one aswell??

 If I live to be 270!  (and can find a decent photo)

 

On the other hand, in my alternative universe 560 wasn't scrapped in 1949, but underwent a full rebuild at Chilton locomotive works,where with the assistance of a Peckett rep the locomotive was returned to near original specification and received a full repaint into NCB Number 4 Area's lined lake livery.

The loco was returned to East Hetton were it was sorely needed to haul the daily coal supplies between the colliery and the Bradyll Brewery*.

 

*Contrary to popular belief East Hettons brewery did not close at the turn of the 20th century but continued to brew the renowned Bradyll Botanical Stout. The brewery was taken over by Oldcastle Breweries in 1935 following a bitter battle with rival brewers, N Jimmo & daughters. Both companies desperately wanted to acquire the recipe of the Botanical brew due to it's reputation of  calming taught bowels and nervous systems and greatly enhancing profitability.

 

With the Oldcastle breweries successful takeover they attempted to transfer production of Bradyll Botanical Stout to the Tyneside brewery where the ale suddenly lost most of it's sparkle, the majority of it's froth and all of it's money generating capabilities. Production was hastily transferred back to the Bradyll Brewery were the stouts mystical qualities returned. It was discovered that the uniqueness of the brew was down to using the waters from the Kelloe Beck from which the brewery drew it's supply.

 

The Bradyll Brewery added two further Ales to it's production following World war Two. Namely, Cockfighter and Bushell & Peckett. To those that know the Kelloe area, the naming of the first ale will need no explanation, but Bushell and Peckett may need some interpreting.

 

George W Bushell was the collieries loco  firemen. His first love was the newly rebuilt Peckett loco and in recognition of the this, the brew was christened, "Bushell & Peckett". Unknown to most (including his wife Franny) equal to the Peckett in his affections was Doris Day. On Learning that Ms. Day was going to visit the Bradyll Brewery to commemorate the first run of Bushell & Peckett ale George had a seizure, collapsed into the local midden heap and was only revived following application to his brow, copious amounts of Bradyll's Botanical Stout! The downside of all this was George spent the rest of his working days firing the Peckett dressed as Calamity Jane, slapping his thigh and singing Deadwood Stage.

 

The brewery finally closed in 1985 due to Bradyll's Botanical Stout mysteriously and finally losing it's medicinal qualities. After analysing the waters of the Kelloe Beck it was realised the special properties of the brew had been lost forever due to the closure of the local colliery two years earlier. It was discovered that the waters of the Kelloe Beck were no longer being fortified by the overflow from the colliery winding engine boilers and more importantly, the drain water from the colliery baths and coal washer no longer discharged directly into the stream.

 

Shame,

 

P

Edited January 7, 2017 by Porcy Mane

[Axlebox]

 If I live to be 270!  (and can find a decent photo)

 

On the other hand, in my alternative universe 560 wasn't scrapped in 1949, but underwent a full rebuild at Chilton locomotive works where with the assistance of a Peckett rep the locomotive was returned to near original specification and received a full repaint into NCB Number 4 Area's, lined lake livery.

The loco was returned to East Hetton were it was sorely needed to haul the daily coal supplies between the colliery and the Bradyll Brewery*.

 

*Contrary to popular belief East Hettons brewery did not close at the turn of the 20th century but continued to brew the renowned Bradyll Botanical Stout. The brewery was taken over by Oldcastle Breweries in 1935 following a bitter battle with rival brewers, N Jimmo & daughters. Both companies desperately wanted to acquire the recipe of the Botanical brew due to it's reputation of  calming taught bowels and nervous systems and greatly enhancing profitability.

 

With the Oldcastle breweries successful takeover they attempted to transfer production of Bradyll Botanical Stout to the Tyneside brewery where the ale suddenly lost most of it's sparkle, the majority of it's froth and all of it's money generating capabilities. Production was hastily transferred back to the Bradyll Brewery were the stouts mystical qualities returned. It was discovered that the uniqueness of the brew was down to using the waters from the Kelloe Beck from which the brewery drew it's supply.

 

The Bradyll Brewery added two further Ales to it's production following World war Two. Namely, Cockfighter and Bushell & Peckett. To those that know the Kelloe area, the naming of the first ale will need no explanation, but Bushell and Peckett may need some interpreting.

 

George W Bushell was the collieries loco  firemen. His first love was the newly rebuilt Peckett loco and in recognition of the this, the brew was christened, "Bushell & Peckett". Unknown to most (including his wife Franny) equal to the Peckett in his affections was Doris Day. On Learning that Ms. Day was going to visit the Bradyll Brewery to commemorate the first run of Bushell & Peckett ale George had a seizure, collapsed into the local midden heap and was only revived following application to his brow, copious amounts of Bradyll's Botanical Stout! The downside of all this was George spent the rest of his working days firing the Peckett dressed as Calamity Jane, slapping his thigh and singing Deadwood Stage.

 

The brewery finally closed in 1985 due to Bradyll's Botanical Stout mysteriously and finally losing it's medicinal qualities. After analysing the waters of the Kelloe Beck it was realised the special properties of the brew had been lost forever due to the closure of the local colliery two years earlier. It was discovered that the waters of the Kelloe Beck were no longer being fortified by the overflow from the colliery winding engine boilers and more importantly, the drain water from the colliery baths and coal washer no longer discharged directly into the stream.

 

Shame,

 

P

I take it thats a no then...

Edited January 7, 2017 by Axlebox

[Les1952]

Peckett 560, Out of use at Nationalisation and slowly cannibalised the last bits going in April 1949 according to the colliery records and it's last driver. (No longer with us)

Probably looked substantially different to a standard Peckett having been rebuilt by Ridley Shaw on release from Brummer Mond in 1930.

 

 

 

Hazard being the local name for the colliery (partly because of it's reputation) it's owners being unable to convince the local populace to call it by its official North Hetton title. Interesting that C Mountford has it down as having an angled cab. I was told it had a scalloped cab similar to Lambtons H/L  No.33.

I've never seen a pic of No 36 but suppose that there must be a few about with it surviving until 1963.

 

Guess what name plates I'm ordering? 

 

P                 

 

The same as me, presumably... (ordered plates for HAZARD and CHARLES NELSON from Narrow Planet last night).  No records seem to exist of the livery HAZARD had before acquisition by the L&HC, and CHARLES NELSON was certainly green at some time in the fifties, though by that time it had become No.66.  I'm ignoring the altered cab as I'm still coming to terms with a Lambton cab kit for an austerity.

 

I've now got the green one from Digitrains and fitted the Hornby chip I had already acquired from Sherwood Models.  That was a bit of a fight as when I slid the chip in between the guides at the front of the mechanism  it stripped away the insulating tape I'd wrapped round, then the pressure of the body pushing the chip downwards caused it to short where it had stripped the insulation away.  The solution would be to put a small six-pin interface where the 4-pin one sits and use one of the tiny decoders.  This would fit inside the loco much better than Hornby's solution. their decoder is quite chunky, especially considering how few functions it has.  The number 11 came off easily with a Faber-Castell Perfection erasing pencil.  I will add Number 36 to the cab back and front bufferbeam.  As an aside the whistle is well and truly bent....

 

I'd said I might leave the loco with Digitrains for chipping but decided against when I looked at the one in the shop.  The chip and speaker are all inside the loco (nothing in the cab) but as there isn't a stay-alive fitted it tended to stall too easily.  To overcome that Jeremy has fitted additional pickups as wipers direct to the rails.  Sadly my industrial track is unsuitable for that solution, so HAZARD (and eventually CHARLES NELSON) will remain silent.  The shoehorning included removing surplus plastic from the gearbox I gather.

 

I'll post pics tomorrow or sometime (in the No Place thread), but the loco will run into all sidings, including taking the left-right combination of two Y-points that defeats many of my fleet.  Oddly enough the locos are happy with the setrack Y that comes first but less happy with the small Streamline one that follows it.

 

Les

Edited January 7, 2017 by Les1952

[Les1952]

I got my Beattie Well Tank sound chipped by Wickness models, using a Zimo chip, if that's any help. They have a video on youtube of one.

 

The problem was that having undone all the screws in the instruction sheet the body refused to come off- they thought it might have been glued together.

 

Les

[Les1952]

Has anyone got a photo of the MSC no12? I'm wondering from the few notes I've found if it was exactly the same as no11 and if they came with the 'square' dome or originally have the Dodo style.

deleted as I've read a better reply to the question....

 

Les

Edited January 7, 2017 by Les1952

[adb968008]

They had bunkers in the cabs. Whilst not a great capacity it would have been sufficient for a small tank loco working in a dockyard. About the same as a Lancashire And Yorkshire Pug.

 

Water would have been a bigger priority. That would need replenishing every couple of hours or so, whether they were working hard or not. So they probably just topped the coal up when they visited the water supply.

 

 

Jason

 

p110..

 

An annoying feature was the lack of adequate bunkering. Coal had to be piled on the floor at the back of the cab, which was not only a nuisance but was also dangerous.

 

Practice and reality was obviously different, the author also states elsewhere about the steaming capabilities being very poor, and that the author himself  in 1956 condemned the boiler on No 11 and the locomotive to its fate.

Very good book, well worth the read, it covers everything from inception to closure all aspects from design to rolling stock. There's pictures in their of the railways GWR Toad Brake vans amongst other things...and did I mention it has lots of pictures of the "standard" Hudswell Clarke Canal tanks..... and er  USA S100 0-6-0Ts were deployed there in 1942... with US Crews to fire them... if any LMS modellers need an excuse for one.

Edited January 8, 2017 by adb968008

[PaulRhB]

I've got "Railways of the Manchester Ship Canal", Don Thorpe, OPC, 1984, ISBN 0-086093-2888-5 in front of me.

 

The MSC didn't have a close association to Peckett, there was only a handful, relative to other builders, Peckett W4s listed are

 

11 Alexandria 654 of 1897, sold to Esso in August 1954

12 Jaffa 655 of 1897, sold in 1927

25 Valencia 907 of 1902, scrapped in 1957.

 

Page 66 show's 11 "Alexandria" as modelled.

Page 114 has a scale drawing of 12 "Jaffa", which is as 11 on page 66, its a good assumption, that two consecutively numbered works plates, ordered together would be the same.

Page 116 shows 11 again, but a later in life livery with MSC lettering but no obvious changes to appearance.

 

Many thanks, I seem to have mislaid my copy Edited January 8, 2017 by PaulRhB

[Steamport Southport]

p110..

 

Practice and reality was obviously different, the author also states elsewhere about the steaming capabilities being very poor, and that the author himself  in 1956 condemned the boiler on No 11 and the locomotive to its fate.

Very good book, well worth the read, it covers everything from inception to closure all aspects from design to rolling stock. There's pictures in their of the railways GWR Toad Brake vans amongst other things...and did I mention it has lots of pictures of the "standard" Hudswell Clarke Canal tanks..... and er  USA S100 0-6-0Ts were deployed there in 1942... with US Crews to fire them... if any LMS modellers need an excuse for one.

 

Why they would throw the coal over the floor is a bit strange. The bunker would have been adequate. I've fired many an industrial without putting coal on the floor.

 

Then again it was in Manc. They're a mucky lot over there.

 

 

Jason

[Caledonian]

Worth mentioning again the photie of No.11 in the current [until Thursday] copy of Hornby Magazine - the footplate floor looks very cluttered.

[Les1952]

Worth mentioning again the photie of No.11 in the current [until Thursday] copy of Hornby Magazine - the footplate floor looks very cluttered.

My loco's footplate floor is even more cluttered now I've got a driver installed.....

 

Good news on that is that a full height driver will go in and it was actually easier than putting one into the USA tank.

 

Les

[PenrithBeacon]

For those who wish to convert to EM or P4 it appears to be possible. The motion clearances are too tight so that the cylinders will have to be spaced out.

They are cast as one piece in metal so spacing should be fairly straightforward.

 

The wheels would have to be turned down and re-used as prototype wheels aren't available. As to the type of metal that they're manufactured in, this may be a little difficult as the last set of Hornby wheels that l turned down were made from a very 'unfriendly' and hard metal, unlike Bach wheels that are much softer. Still I'll be asking someone else with much better turning skills to do it for me! Another possibility that could be looked into might be to fit Gibson tyres onto the plastic spokes if the correct size is available.

 

...

Is this a split axle design?

 

Regards

Edited January 8, 2017 by PenrithBeacon

[lapford34102]

EM conversion - http://emgauge70s.co.uk/

 

Click on January 2017 at top left, halfway down page

 

Stu

[Intercity125]

EM conversion - http://emgauge70s.co.uk/

 

Click on January 2017 at top left, halfway down page

 

Stu

Hi Stu,

 

I'm not an EM modeller but do admire those that do re-gauge to EM.  Was it difficult to do, bearing in mind the previous posts on here from modellers saying that there wasn't enough play in the rods/valve gear to carry out such a conversion?

 

Regards,

 

Paul

[lapford34102]

Hi Paul,

 

Not my doing I'm afraid but as it's was on their pages and people were asking thought I'd post the link.

 

There's an email contact under site map and I'm sure they'd be happy to advise.

HTH

Stu

[Sir Hadyn]

Why they would throw the coal over the floor is a bit strange. The bunker would have been adequate. I've fired many an industrial without putting coal on the floor.

 

Then again it was in Manc. They're a mucky lot over there.

 

 

Jason

Each to their own Jason, I worked an industrial loco just before Christmas on two days with different firemen. One used a plank and had coal on the floor as well as the bunker as it wasn't adequate for the day's running - the other coaled up during the day and kept the floor clear. And this was on an engine with connections to your title.