Hornby Announce Peckett W4 0-4-0ST

[sb67]

I visited a toy fair yesterday and one of the traders had a couple of Pecketts on sale at £85 each, including a Huntly & Palmer example. The same trader usually attends the Brentwood toy fair the next one of which is this coming Saturday.

 

Phil, do you have any details of the Brentwood Toy fair, it's just up the road from me, I've not heard of it before.

Steve.

[Derails Models]

Well it looks like the next Peckett (560)should be in the shops for sale next week. Be interested to see how this Base coat green sells against the black version recently released.

 

Just been told by Hornby that the date the container is due to be arriving with them is...tomorrow! So hopefully they should be arriving by the end of this week, all being well.

[johnd]

Just been told by Hornby that the date the container is due to be arriving with them is...tomorrow! So hopefully they should be arriving by the end of this week, all being well.

Thats funny because I saw an email to a retailer in the retailer saying that they had them and they would be in the shops between 24/9 and 27/9 !

[Hroth]

I was wondering.....

 

Its now the last week in September, after all!

[Derails Models]

Thats funny because I saw an email to a retailer in the retailer saying that they had them and they would be in the shops between 24/9 and 27/9 !

 

Oh! Oh well, at least there's two sources saying the same thing. At least we know we'll be seeing them soon.

[PhilJ W]

Phil, do you have any details of the Brentwood Toy fair, it's just up the road from me, I've not heard of it before.

Steve.

Its at the Brentwood Centre off the Ongar Road. It opens  at 10 am. The trader is Alan Jones but AFAIK he doesn't have a regular spot. I will be there, look out for Father Christmas pushing a red stroller.

[sb67]

Its at the Brentwood Centre off the Ongar Road. It opens  at 10 am. The trader is Alan Jones but AFAIK he doesn't have a regular spot. I will be there, look out for Father Christmas pushing a red stroller.

Ok, ta Phil I'm going to try to make it.

Thanks for that.

Steve.

[johnd]

Oh! Oh well, at least there's two sources saying the same thing. At least we know we'll be seeing them soon.

 

And how may weeks since it was reported as having arrived in Australia. . 3 weeks seem to come to mind and this has been noted before.

 

Talk about the slow boat to/from China !

Edited September 25, 2018 by johnd

[Hroth]

560 (R3615) is indicated as having ARRIVED on the Hornby website.

 

However, they say they're out of stock.

 

Shops must have put in big pre-order orders!

[47137]

I placed a pre-order on the Hornby web site some months ago and forgot about it. They took the money from my bank account two days ago and the model of 560 arrived today.

 

- Richard.

Edited September 27, 2018 by 47137

[MarkSG]

I ordered one from Hatton's last year. The order is showing as open on my account, but they haven't taken payment yet and I haven't heard anything from them. I presume that if Hornby's in-house shop has them ready to send out then the retailers ought to be getting them imminently. Otherwise the retailers are, potentially, going to be a bit miffed if direct customers get preferential treatment.

 

I'm not particularly bothered by a slight delay, I've been waiting over a year for it and it's about to arrive at a time when I'll be away from home a lot on various business trips, so even if it arrives tomorrow it probably won't get unboxed for a month.

[Hroth]

Just heard from my supplier that they've received stock and posting it out to me today....

 

[johnd]

Just heard from my supplier that they've received stock and posting it out to me today....

 

 

And who would that be if you care to say ?

[Derails Models]

The first of our stock arrived today. Unfortunately our allocation has been spilt, with the remainder due 19th October - so if you're not getting your pre-order right now then that's the reason why, as we're not the only retailer that has been split.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Derails Models

[Hroth]

And who would that be if you care to say ?

Given the above post, it would be unfair to name names.

[johnd]

It's alright I know of one shop that had them delivered after 7.00pm today

[adb968008]

Fantastic little being showed up today...

 

I’d completely forgotten I had ordered it, but checking I have the other to follow to.

[Hroth]

My Little Peckett* arrived this morning!

 

560 is a little gem, almost as marvellous as H&P, it'd be handbags at dawn to sort 'em out!  I was going to do a pic, but as adb968008 has done the honours, I'll refrain.

 

The one thing you forget, if you haven't let a Peckett have a canter for a while is how tiny they are, the chaldrons in the pic above look the right size for them, put a Peckett against anything else and it's dwarfed! 

 

 

* edit: What was the asterix for?  #3. 

Edited September 29, 2018 by Hroth

[Caledonian]

560 is a little gem, almost as marvellous as H&P, it'd be handbags at dawn to sort 'em out!  I was going to do a pic, but as adb968008 has done the honours, I'll refrain.

 

The one thing you forget, if you haven't let a Peckett have a canter for a while is how tiny they are, the chaldrons in the pic above look the right size for them, put a Peckett against anything else and it's dwarfed! 

 

 

True, but I rather like the sight of an L&Y puggie hauling ironstone tipplers bigger than it is.

 

I agree that 560 looks splendid and would venture to say superior to the H&P one if only because more versatile than a biscuit. I still can't help feel though that the original wasn't green but photographic grey.

[adb968008]

True, but I rather like the sight of an L&Y puggie hauling ironstone tipplers bigger than it is.

 

I agree that 560 looks splendid and would venture to say superior to the H&P one if only because more versatile than a biscuit. I still can't help feel though that the original wasn't green but photographic grey.

There was a quote somewhere, that said the Green was factory default livery used on everything that didnt have a livery specified.

It was apparently fact checked by a former employee of Peckett.

 

Whether it was 560 in the photo though is open to interpretation.. it could have been any W4 masquerading.

 

If you look at this site, i find it interesting to think the chassis/ below frame was any other colour than grey, given how light it is, but above chassis, i definitely looks much darker.. theres several examples where the normally darkest parts of the loco are lit up in context to the rest of the loco.

https://www.martynbane.co.uk/peckett/locos.htm

 

Maybe another point to consider, if it was works grey not default factory finish green, then what colour is the number on the tanks to make it stand out against the grey so well ?

Edited September 29, 2018 by adb968008

[Hroth]

There was a quote somewhere, that said the Green was factory default livery used on everything that didnt have a livery specified.

It was apparently fact checked by a former employee of Peckett.

 

Whether it was 560 in the photo though is open to interpretation.. it could have been any W4 masquerading.

 

If you look at this site, i find it interesting to think the chassis/ below frame was any other colour than grey, given how light it is, but above chassis, i definitely looks much darker.. theres several examples where the normally darkest parts of the loco are lit up in context to the rest of the loco.

https://www.martynbane.co.uk/peckett/locos.htm

 

Maybe another point to consider, if it was works grey not default factory finish green, then what colour is the number on the tanks to make it stand out against the grey so well ?

 

Its an interesting conundrum!

 

I believe 560 was built in 1893, long before properly colour-balanced photographic emulsions were developed.

 

The most usual film emulsion then in use would be what is know known as "orthochromatic" and is sensitive to blue and green light only.  It is completely insensitive to red light and orthochromatic film can be developed by inspection under a red safelight, ie the developer is in a tray, and the film is washed in it until the photographer can see the negative density that is required.

 

This means that blue objects appear lighter and red ones darker, with green somewhere inbetween.  Black, shades of grey and white would photograph as expected, which is probably the rationale for "photographic grey" as it would give a definitive image of the loco.

 

In orthochromatic terms, 560 would probably appear as in the photo on the Hornby webpage either in photographic grey or in green with white lettering and black lining.  There's really no way of tellng!

 

Wikipedia has some images showing how this works!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthochromasia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchromatic_film

[NHY 581]

I hope to collect mine tomorrow. 560 will make a nice pairing with Dodo who has been a bit lonely, bless it.

 

Here is Dodo in one of her natural habitats...will post a revised image of the pair in due course.

 

 

Rob.

[Caledonian]

Its an interesting conundrum!

 

I believe 560 was built in 1893, long before properly colour-balanced photographic emulsions were developed.

 

The most usual film emulsion then in use would be what is know known as "orthochromatic" and is sensitive to blue and green light only.  It is completely insensitive to red light and orthochromatic film can be developed by inspection under a red safelight, ie the developer is in a tray, and the film is washed in it until the photographer can see the negative density that is required.

 

This means that blue objects appear lighter and red ones darker, with green somewhere inbetween.  Black, shades of grey and white would photograph as expected, which is probably the rationale for "photographic grey" as it would give a definitive image of the loco.

 

In orthochromatic terms, 560 would probably appear as in the photo on the Hornby webpage either in photographic grey or in green with white lettering and black lining.  There's really no way of tellng!

 

Wikipedia has some images showing how this works!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthochromasia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchromatic_film

 

Whilst I agree as to the ambiguity over the real colour on the original photie, what tilts me towards the photographic grey is the presence in large numerals of the works number, and the Peckett legend along the running plate.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do find this an attractive locomotive and if one should perchance fall into my hands I will leave it exactly as it is 

[adb968008]

 

Its an interesting conundrum!

 

I believe 560 was built in 1893, long before properly colour-balanced photographic emulsions were developed.

 

The most usual film emulsion then in use would be what is know known as "orthochromatic" and is sensitive to blue and green light only.  It is completely insensitive to red light and orthochromatic film can be developed by inspection under a red safelight, ie the developer is in a tray, and the film is washed in it until the photographer can see the negative density that is required.

 

This means that blue objects appear lighter and red ones darker, with green somewhere inbetween.  Black, shades of grey and white would photograph as expected, which is probably the rationale for "photographic grey" as it would give a definitive image of the loco.

 

In orthochromatic terms, 560 would probably appear as in the photo on the Hornby webpage either in photographic grey or in green with white lettering and black lining.  There's really no way of tellng!

 

Wikipedia has some images showing how this works!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthochromasia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchromatic_film

 

Here's a go, Ive taken my 560 and applied some artistic colourisations to it..

Starting in pose, all Peckett Works pictures show chimney to the right..

 

 

Remove colour..

 

Remove Blue..

Remove Green..

 

Add Film Grain effect..

Lighten the effect

Grayscale & Ligthened

 

now compare that to Hornbys work image of the peckett..

https://www.Hornby.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/p/e/peckett-560-17-51.jpg

(Ive took a picture of my laptop screen here) and I think you would agree the comparison of the model to the actual works photograph is pretty stellar spot on. (I did notice in the Peckett works Image, the under frames is lined !!!)

 

 

 

 

What do I think, comparing it to actual works pictures..

 

1. I think the top of the loco is green, but i'm 100% convinced the bottom is gray or green too.

No amount of reproductive effort reduced Black and the lost detail to the frames and chassis, and I'm sure in the 1890s they didn't have the kind of lighting effects we have today to lighten up below the frames, if they were painted black, indeed the lower edges of the frames under the cab is black and white lining against another base colour.

2. My comparison source is "Peckett and Sons Ltd, Locomotive Engineers Bristol" A company produced product brochure, c1930s with 80+ pictures of the factory and works pictures of it's locos. I would back this up by saying the publication show pictures of several locos "in the field" where they are working in industry and the darkened chassis is obvious, as are the tools which are a darker colour, though some pictures look to have had pencil made artistic embelishments, though that publication is 30 years newer than the loco in question.

3. The works picture clearly shows the smokebox area under the saddle tank, is the same green as the saddle tank, the black is clear on the pictures including the edges of the black smokebox front, against conventional thinking that all smoke boxes are always black on the sides, looking at the above book Pekect 1579 (M4) and 1461 appear the same, though most others clearly show a difference in shading around the smokebox sides, there are pictures of 1579 in preservation like this, but red to match the frame sides..

 

Finally, I think Hornby would do well to pose some of it's models in the same context as their research pictures to show how accurate they are !!!

Edited September 30, 2018 by adb968008

[Quarryscapes]

560 arrived from Derails yesterday. Looks stunning as expected. Here it is next to Dodo, awaiting its turn in the weathering shop.