OO gauge class 74 electro-diesel locomotive

[mikesndbs]

very sad news for all of us. Lets hope it happens one day.

[leopardml2341]

http://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/shop/kits_modelling/plastic_dmu_emu_coaching_stock_kits_from_dc_kits_incudes_locomotives_/locomotives_coaches_departmental/class_74_sr_electro_diesel_bo_bo_body_kit_only_.php

 

Pop the body on whichever chassis you prefer, or alternatively retain the cabs and hack them to the sides and roof from the kit.

Have you actually bought one?

 

From same website:

 

http://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/shop/kits_modelling/plastic_dmu_emu_coaching_stock_kits_from_dc_kits_incudes_locomotives_/southern_region_diesel_units/class_201_6s_short_bodied_hasting_diesel_unit_6_car_unit_non_corridor_.php

 

and I, for one, know that these are no longer available. Not the most up to date website is that one!

Rgds,

Edited May 2, 2018 by leopardml2341

[lochlongside]

Sad news from Kernow.

 

Good afternoon,

 

Re your DJ Models Class 74 order.

 

etc etc

 

I must admit that given the apparent stalling in progress I had half (sort of?) expected cancellation (nothing like a bit of hindsight!!); and in that case I would have expected to pay something towards the costs incurred to date (even though order conditions appeared to preclude this there is nothing like a bit of small print !!) as I was under the impression that that was the normal downside of crowd-funding.

 

so I must thank both DJM and Kernow for their generous solution to non-delivery... well done to both - I do hope you benefit in the longterm, and I guess that to demonstrate solidarity I will now need to invest is some DJM items from Kernow

[rembrow]

Unfortunately I was concerned some time ago that this cancellation would happen, as for a period last year, developmental was on hold due to low take up of pre orders. I was on the verge of cancelling my order last August, then development of the cad work was restarted. Dave was aiming to attract more interest with the posting of completed cads, which for reasons stated, didn't happen. I think the project should have been dropped when it was clear that take up had not reached the level required, rather than rely on the cads generating further interest. Rather than put Kernow more out of pocket, I've used my Class 74 credit to partly fund a second D600 loco, Cossack. 

 

 

*edit to correct grammar.

Edited May 2, 2018 by rembrow

[Covkid]

Very sad indeed and commiserations to those who took the crowdfunding plunge. 

 

Kind of makes you wonder whether crowdfunding is only appropriate in a small number of "extreme" projects. I really thought the 74 would be a success given there is no need for any third rail on the layout unlike with the 71.  
Not sure whether they worked together very much but the 74 on the back of a TC set would have been a cracker.

 

Never mind. Perhaps a third party can offer rebuild class 71s in limited runs maybe.  

[DJM Dave]

Very sad indeed and commiserations to those who took the crowdfunding plunge. 

 

Kind of makes you wonder whether crowdfunding is only appropriate in a small number of "extreme" projects. I really thought the 74 would be a success given there is no need for any third rail on the layout unlike with the 71.  

Not sure whether they worked together very much but the 74 on the back of a TC set would have been a cracker.

 

Never mind. Perhaps a third party can offer rebuild class 71s in limited runs maybe.

 

The 74 was successfully crowdfunded to tooling stage, that wasn’t the problem.

Progress, or lack of, was the problem.

[47164]

Mm..I must be cursed... first the class 41 hst and now the 74!!! Thank goodness I have kit built examples...regardless keep up the excellent work Dave.

[Dogmatix]

This is a great pity, and a big disappointment. I have cancelled my orders with Kernow.

 

The minimum bits needed for a 71=>74 conversion would be a roof panel to go where the pantograph isn't, central buffing plates (or whatever they're properly called), some pipework ("bagpipes"?), and new numbers. Possibly this leaves some grills or panels wrong on the sides, but that wouldn't overly bother me. Or are there any more glaring changes to address?

[DJM Dave]

This is a great pity, and a big disappointment. I have cancelled my orders with Kernow.

 

The minimum bits needed for a 71=>74 conversion would be a roof panel to go where the pantograph isn't, central buffing plates (or whatever they're properly called), some pipework ("bagpipes"?), and new numbers. Possibly this leaves some grills or panels wrong on the sides, but that wouldn't overly bother me. Or are there any more glaring changes to address?

Windows....2 sizes

Grilles both sides

Bogie alterations

Fuel tank / battery box

Roof grill

Roof panels

Side window filling

Bagpipes

Amongst others, I’m afraid to say.

[Mike Storey]

I fully understand this was a mutual decision, but for the benefit of objectivity, it is noticeable on Kernow's website as to the number of their own commissioned models (not involving DJM) that are also now suffering from delays of various kinds.

[Gulliver]

Not sure what you are getting at Mick?

 

I would say the reverse is true, it is the non DJ projects that have progressed (witness the Bulleid Diesel for instance, or the 4-TC) while the DJ projects have been heavily delayed (Gate Stock, 1361, D600, Road Van?)

 

The only other project remaining is the GWR Railmotor which was a DJ project, unless I am missing something?

[bill_schmidt1]

The 74 was successfully crowdfunded to tooling stage, that wasn’t the problem.

Progress, or lack of, was the problem.

I'm a bit confused. So if it was successfully crowdfunded to the tooling stage that means the money was available to progress with it or am I missing something? 

[DJM Dave]

yes indeed your missing something. lol

 

dont worry as many do.

 

the tooling would have been paid for, but only that.

not the shipping, import duty, unit costs, ep samples, painted samples etc.

 

so although the tooling was covered, it needed more orders to actually manufacture the model.

 

however, its all moot if the development was so protracted and ultimately a let down.

 

but like i say, to use a famous railway quote, 'perchance it is not death, merely sleepeth'.

 

hope this helps

cheers

dave

[Andy Y]

I have been asked off-forum why this project has had such a long period without any CAD work being done/shown when the first post included a CAD elevation. It is only right for me to address that and advise that Dave asked me a favour on 24/09/15 if I could create an elevation based on the 71 CAD and other parts. This was carried out in Photoshop and not in any design package. If this has given anyone the impression that CADwork was underway or partially complete I can only apologise; in hindsight it should have been accompanied by an 'artists impression' disclaimer.

 

I have expressed my concerns over the lack of evidence of any work on the 74 and other issues with Dave four weeks ago with a response "The 74 is a problem child that work never seems to get done on, but one that will come to a head soon as unless i can get the factory to finish the work on the cad/cam and push on i dont know if it will succeed. Again i expect an answer within 14 or so days." If CAD design had been instructed and paid for I would have certainly been pressing for results but obviously there is no completed CAD work which obviously left Kernow in a position where they had to make an ethical decision over customer funds. With several posts over the years about viable thresholds not having been met yet it is understandable that customers/investors had concerns whether they would see a product and question what work had actually been carried out given the lack of evidence.

[bill_schmidt1]

 

 If CAD design had been instructed and paid for I would have certainly been pressing for results 

That was the point I was trying to make a few posts back but got told "If you don’t receive items you have paid for, you basically lose the monies paid" which still sounds a bit odd if there is a contract in place!

 

Add to this the lack of accountability that seems to be going on with the APT-P makes me feel uneasy about committing to these crowdfunded ventures in the future.. 

[Roy Langridge]

That was the point I was trying to make a few posts back but got told "If you don’t receive items you have paid for, you basically lose the monies paid" which still sounds a bit odd if there is a contract in place!

 

Add to this the lack of accountability that seems to be going on with the APT-P makes me feel uneasy about committing to these crowdfunded ventures in the future.. 

 

My wife's family are still owed a lot of money from China as a result of the agreement struck over the hand-back of Hong Kong. We don't expect to ever see it. Normal rules just don't apply I am afraid.

 

Roy

[bill_schmidt1]

Normal rules just don't apply I am afraid.

 

Not sure that excuse will do Dave much good if projects start failing and leaving people out of pocket left, right and centre. 

[Roy Langridge]

Not sure that excuse will do Dave much good if projects start failing and leaving people out of pocket left, right and centre. 

 

It is not an excuse, it is a fact - and something that if we desire models to be produced in China so that we can have them at a price that we can afford, we have to accept it. I never said we have to be happy about it.

Roy

[Ouroborus]

It is not an excuse, it is a fact - and something that if we desire models to be produced in China so that we can have them at a price that we can afford, we have to accept it. I never said we have to be happy about it.

Roy

 

 

Not quite sure that I agree that  having  a model (not) made in China leaving me out of pocket is something that i have to "accept".  The contract I make is with the UK supplier.  I can accept a cancellation, but being left out of pocket, not so.

[mdvle]

That was the point I was trying to make a few posts back but got told "If you don’t receive items you have paid for, you basically lose the monies paid" which still sounds a bit odd if there is a contract in place!

 

 

You are applying an understanding of how contracts work in the UK / western world with how things work in China.

 

China is a different environment.

[Roy Langridge]

Not quite sure that I agree that having a model (not) made in China leaving me out of pocket is something that i have to "accept". The contract I make is with the UK supplier. I can accept a cancellation, but being left out of pocket, not so.

I think you miss my point. Dave (the supplier) has been left out of pocket, not us. We desire cheaper models and DJ are meeting this demand by going to China.

 

We cannot change the way China business operates, we have to accept that if we wish to trade there. If the risk is too great, DJ and his peers will not go to China, but the costs will be higher and we may buy less models, but at a higher price. That is DJ’s dilemma.

 

Roy

[Ouroborus]

I think you miss my point. Dave (the supplier) has been left out of pocket, not us. We desire cheaper models and DJ are meeting this demand by going to China.

 

We cannot change the way China business operates, we have to accept that if we wish to trade there. If the risk is too great, DJ and his peers will not go to China, but the costs will be higher and we may buy less models, but at a higher price. That is DJ’s dilemma.

 

Roy

 

Yes, sorry if I misunderstood you, I agree.  I think a further concern for DJ and the others may be what happens to the items he's already bought, such as the CAD.  Would China hand it over to him, rights and all?  Or flog it off to another manufacturer?  I suspect we all know the answer.  Like you say, its a different culture and they operate differently.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Ouroborus

[royaloak]

But if you take crowd funding to its true meaning then those who have paid into it would have lost money on the work that has been paid for up to this point in time because that is what you have funded, that is the risk you take with crowd funding.

 

Dave has taken the decision to absorb the costs up to now but was under no obligation to do so which is highly commendable of him.

 

Signed a very nervous (okay a little bit nervous) APT crowd funder.

Edited May 3, 2018 by royaloak

[DJM Dave]

Yes, sorry if I misunderstood you, I agree.  I think a further concern for DJ and the others may be what happens to the items he's already bought, such as the CAD.  Would China hand it over to him, rights and all?  Or flog it off to another manufacturer?  I suspect we all know the answer.  Like you say, its a different culture and they operate differently.

They will, if i wanted the cad/cam etc hold them to ransom, as thats their way im afraid, even if they had a spurt on and completed it. However as they had done nothing of any tangible work on it in all that time, its basically money p'd up the wall and gone.

they could flog it off to another, but the chassis would need developing as the class 71 was to donate the chassis.

there is documented 'form' of this happening with China production and other model railway companies worldwide, and you either pay and eat the bill, or you lose.

 

luckily, i cannot say i've lost anything except a 4 figure sum for the cad development, which in itself is bad enough though.

 

edited for fat finger trouble.

[Ouroborus]

They will, if i wanted the cad/cam etc hold them to ransom, as thats their way im afraid, even if they had a spurt on and completed it. However as they had done nothing of any tangible work on it in all that time, its basically money p'd up the wall and gone.

they could flog it off to another, but the chassis would need developing as the class 71 was to donate the chassis.

there is documented 'form' of this happening with China production and other model railway companies worldwide, and you either pay and eat the bill, or you lose.

 

luckily, i cannot say i've lost anything except a 5 figure sum for the cad development, which in itself is bad enough though.

 

Thanks for your answer Dave.  Good luck with matters.  Onwards and upwards!