Class 59 in 00

[adb968008]

Freightliner won the contract to operate the aggregates operations, from DBS, and with it took ownership of the class 59/0 and 59/1 fleets as part of the contract.

 

Previously the 59/0 & 59/1 were privately owned, but operated by DBS, 59003 aside.

 

obvious the 59’s themselves are key to the contract, they are the backbone but not getting younger. FLT taking on ownership and overhauling them gives continued security of familiarity & reliability of the 59’s. Probably of relevance is the tight maintenance regime, which is based at Merehead, and on premise of the Yeoman facility...and dedicated staff.

Similarly dbs class 59/2 are maintained at Merehead.

 

As has been mentioned previously there was suggestion the some DBS 60’s could have been reactivated to support this work by DBS.

 

it might have been considered that a DBS bid that might have considered alternate traction, maintained elsewhere was less attractive, where as the Freightliner offer to “more of the same” was safer.

 

As the 59/0 & 1 are now maintained by a competitor, rather than a customer its not really tenable that the 59/2’s would be retained, especially as its the same now ex-customer they were being used for.

 

so my money is on Freightliner owning all the fleet bar 59003, and it may make sense them acquiring that too.

 

It would be entertaining if say GBRF were to pony up for 59/2’s, as it would be an issue for the freightliner contract which needs more than 8x class 59’s. Besides GBRF, I couldn't imagine anyone else other than Freightliner, and I doubt they would be interested anyway,  beyond a chance of bumping up a minimum price to ensure a competitor isnt just getting a bargain price deal.

 

of course I could be wrong, freightliner may intend 70’s all along, and DBS has a redundant small fleet of high powered locos.. in which case scrappeth commeth, or a voyage to a more prosperous country than this one.

 

Which leads me to assume this whole exercise is validating a done deal and just ensuring the price is right.

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by adb968008

[JDW]

Are they (the 59/0s and 59/1s) actually owned by DBS or still owned by Mendip and just leased to DBS to operate the trains?

[royaloak]

7 minutes ago, JDW said:

Are they (the 59/0s and 59/1s) actually owned by DBS or still owned by Mendip and just leased to DBS to operate the trains?

They are owned by Mendip rail but will be moving to Freightliner ownership when they take over the contract, part of the contract is that the 59/0 and 1s will all receive a major overhaul there is no news about the 59/2s although the jungle drums are going into overdrive reporting everyones ideas/thoughts as if they are fact.

[JDW]

1 minute ago, royaloak said:

They are owned by Mendip rail but will be moving to Freightliner ownership when they take over the contract, part of the contract is that the 59/0 and 1s will all receive a major overhaul there is no news about the 59/2s although the jungle drums are going into overdrive reporting everyones ideas/thoughts as if they are fact.

 

Ahh I see. I wondered if it was just that people had got the wrong end of the stick and started running with it, and in reality Freightliner would be operating them but still owned by Mendip in the same way as with DB.  Thanks.

[TravisM]

1 hour ago, JDW said:

 

Ahh I see. I wondered if it was just that people had got the wrong end of the stick and started running with it, and in reality Freightliner would be operating them but still owned by Mendip in the same way as with DB.  Thanks.

 

No, the ownership of the Class 59/0’s and 59/1’s passes to Freightliner from the beginning of the contract.  The DBC Class 59/2’s are operated under a common pool with the others and I’m sure that will continue but under new ownership.

 

There are many rumours flying about and I’m sure that a announcement will be made soon.

[daz9284]

Actually the 59/0's and /1's became Freightliners when they won the contact last november and they are currently leased by Mendip rail from FL.

[adb968008]

3 hours ago, royaloak said:

They are owned by Mendip rail but will be moving to Freightliner ownership when they take over the contract, part of the contract is that the 59/0 and 1s will all receive a major overhaul there is no news about the 59/2s although the jungle drums are going into overdrive reporting everyones ideas/thoughts as if they are fact.

I think you may be missing a key fact point of pertinent information...

 

I and others who have registered with DBS, received an email, invitation to tender to purchase 59201-6 from Westbury, dated June 21st. Closing date for registering interest is Wednesday July 21st.

 

Quote

DB Cargo have the following locomotives available for sale:
Loco No.
59201
59202
59203
59204
59205
59206

These locomotives will be at Westbury (TBC) and will be sold as seen and as and where lying. 

The successful bidder(s) will be required to remove the Locomotives at their own expense.

Please register your interest for these locomotives in accordance with the “Guide to making an offer for a
Locomotive.”

Registrations of interest should be e-mailed to …[removed]. Postal registrations of interest 
should be sent to the address at the bottom of this section.

The closing date for registrations of interest for these locomotives is at  noon on Wednesday 10th July 2019

Tender documents will be issued shortly after this date.

[continues]...

 

The 59/2 are being offered for sale via tender.

 

This is the source of the rumour, it is not without basis or idle speculation, though if your not registered with DBC your uninformed and it’s reasonable for you to assume it is just rumour.

 

This isn’t private info, details are available on DBS website.

Edited July 6, 2019 by adb968008

[lyneux]

I think it’s time to see some heritage liveries appear on these machines. Seems like an appropriate time to do it!

 

Guy

[daz9284]

14 minutes ago, lyneux said:

I think it’s time to see some heritage liveries appear on these machines. Seems like an appropriate time to do it!

 

Guy

I know a guy who is 'highish' up in FL and knows people in other FOC's and I've asked him to ask whoever gets them if there is any change of renaming 59201 and putting it back into NP livery :-D

[royaloak]

18 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I think you may be missing a key fact point of pertinent information...

 

The 59/2 are being offered for sale via tender.

Okay, I should have put there is no news about who has bought the 59/2 locos.

 

It doesnt take a genius to work out who is in the best place to buy them, although there are a couple of other options which might surprise people, or not as the case may be.

 

As far as DB are concerned these are 6 non standard locos among the standard fleet of 66s.

Edited July 7, 2019 by royaloak

[adb968008]

9 hours ago, lyneux said:

I think it’s time to see some heritage liveries appear on these machines. Seems like an appropriate time to do it!

 

Guy

Indeed a 59 would look good in LYR, GCR, MR, SECR, LSWR,LNWR,GER,GNR,CR, HR, NSR, FR, TVR and of course GWR, leaving 59003 in GBRF

 

[25901]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Indeed a 59 would look good in LYR, GCR, MR, SECR, LSWR,LNWR,GER,GNR,CR, HR, NSR, FR, TVR and of course GWR, leaving 59003 in GBRF

 

 

HNRC and Riley livery 

Edited July 7, 2019 by 25901

[No Decorum]

17 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Indeed a 59 would look good in LYR, GCR, MR, SECR, LSWR,LNWR,GER,GNR,CR, HR, NSR, FR, TVR and of course GWR, leaving 59003 in GBRF

 

With well over a hundred pre-grouping companies, there  aren’t enough 59s. Somebody out there will have to order a good few more. 

[atom3624]

Wasn't it 123 pre-grouping companies?

 

Throw in a few 66's - most wouldn't know the difference!!

 

Al.

[No Decorum]

21 hours ago, atom3624 said:

Wasn't it 123 pre-grouping companies?

 

Throw in a few 66's - most wouldn't know the difference!!

 

Al.

You’re about right there, going by the number swept up in the grouping. Partly it depends on whether you count the LNWR and the L&Y as one or two, as they amalgamated about six months before grouping. There were many, many more pre-grouping companies which passed out of existence long before grouping. A common practice was to set up a railway company to build a line and then hand it over to a large company. Others just fell victim to takeovers.

[Ravenser]

On 07/07/2019 at 18:46, adb968008 said:

Indeed a 59 would look good in LYR, GCR, MR, SECR, LSWR,LNWR,GER,GNR,CR, HR, NSR, FR, TVR and of course GWR, leaving 59003 in GBRF

 

 

 

I'm imagining a 59 with Indian Red frames....

[atom3624]

How about pre-grouping GWR, with red/brown frames, lining, and brass fittings ... ?   !!!!

 

Al.

Edited July 9, 2019 by atom3624

[lyneux]

Sorry, you lost me with the term ‘pre grouping’ (I think some of you are in the wrong bit of the forum maybe?). Do you mean pre Mendip Rail?

 

If so, then how about original ARC mustard?

 

 

Edited July 9, 2019 by lyneux

[KDG]

21 minutes ago, lyneux said:

Sorry, you lost me with the term ‘pre grouping’ (I think some of you are in the wrong bit of the forum maybe?). Do you mean pre Mendip Rail?

 

If so, then how about original ARC mustard?

 

 

 If were talking real pre grouping.......Loadhaul?

[atom3624]

This post - page 16:

 

 

  On 07/07/2019 at 18:46, adb968008 said:

Indeed a 59 would look good in LYR, GCR, MR, SECR, LSWR,LNWR,GER,GNR,CR, HR, NSR, FR, TVR and of course GWR, leaving 59003 in GBRF

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/emoticons/default_biggrin.png

 

 

Al.

[LaGrange]

On 07/07/2019 at 18:40, royaloak said:

Okay, I should have put there is no news about who has bought the 59/2 locos.

 

It doesnt take a genius to work out who is in the best place to buy them, although there are a couple of other options which might surprise people, or not as the case may be.

 

As far as DB are concerned these are 6 non standard locos among the standard fleet of 66s.

 

The deal may also be already done and they have had to advertise them to comply with competition laws etc

 

Possibly even more liveries for Dapol to do, others like the revised Yeoman, ARC and Mendip Rail liveries are yet to be mentioned by them

[royaloak]

5 hours ago, LaGrange said:

 

The deal may also be already done and they have had to advertise them to comply with competition laws etc

Oh they cant do that as it would be illegal!  

[adb968008]

36 minutes ago, royaloak said:

Oh they cant do that as it would be illegal!  

Isnt it the same with regards advertising a job but already having a candidate lined up ? - Yet anecdotally most jobs seem to be filled in this manner.

 

Sales processes can have a preferred bidder, at the start of a procurement, and as long as the alternative options are fairly evaluated theres nothing wrong with it.

 

As I said, it opens the door for competition, Who knows Freightliner may look to be foregone, but if a cheeky high bid was submitted by another party it cannot be ignored.

[Ravenser]

25 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Isnt it the same with regards advertising a job but already having a candidate lined up ? - Yet anecdotally most jobs seem to be filled in this manner.

 

Sales processes can have a preferred bidder, at the start of a procurement, and as long as the alternative options are fairly evaluated theres nothing wrong with it.

 

As I said, it opens the door for competition, Who knows Freightliner may look to be foregone, but if a cheeky high bid was submitted by another party it cannot be ignored.

 

"Fred would be the obvious choice, but I've put it out to the agencies and we'll see what we get it".....

[Classsix T]

Going back some when I was periferally involved in (ostensibly life-expired) locomotive acquisition, it was then (and maybe still)  a requisite under competition rules for sellers of traction and/or rolling stock to offer such on the open market. However the seller still had the option to reject any bid without cause ensuring that said items definitely ended up as razor blades and not working for their business competitors.

I get that from a business angle obviously, some might suggest the Heritage Railway Association could have brokered a better deal for preservationists, but the lines these days are so blurred between privately owned and preserved that I don't think that that'd actually work. 

 

Which has nothing to do with the 59s of course... 

 

C6T. 

 

That's not say we didn't descend like vultures on the Scrappy's purchases for spares or no caveat was in place that prevented them reselling locos.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Classsix T