lyneux Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 On 25/07/2020 at 00:03, charliepetty said: Just in case one wondered if Legomanbiffo was getting excited about the Dapol 59 !!! I take it one won’t be the new Rapido operations manager then Charlie? Daddy Ying... well done Ian! Which 59 was it recorded off? Guy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 The Smoke it totally wrong for Diesels, especially for Class 59/66 locos, but sadly we have the modellers who almost certainly will enjoy the 'Play Element' in these models. Assumong Zimo have not thrown anything in there to stop you using other decoders then we will program in this 'Play Element' as people will buy them. Charlie 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pillar Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) Fan-driven smoke units can give a much more convincing exhaust effect: I've tried to find out from Dapol whether this is the type of thing they'll be using, but no luck so far. I'd love to see something like this in the '59. Liam Edited July 27, 2020 by Pillar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Imagine a row of Victorian houses, and each with a different scent ... !! I'm trying not to imagine what the loft would look / smell like!! At least if it were a shed, you could have doors and windows opened from time to time!! Al. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ERIC ALLTORQUE Posted July 28, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 28, 2020 Err no,it looks silly,its a model not a toy,the model looks like its on fags,the driver might be a 60 a day guy but not the model...... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 I think smoke doesn’t scale , like water 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Wonder if they have DCC options for clag and thrash - white or black ... !! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted July 29, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 29, 2020 I must have had a brain fade ordering a smoke generator version. Having watched the efforts on the Rush-Rail model I suddenly came to my senses and changed my order to just DCC sound. Even the fan assited smoke gen. would not really look right on a 59....Phew! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pillar Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 23 hours ago, rob D2 said: I think smoke doesn’t scale , like water To my eyes this O gauge model looks pretty convincing (see from 1:50 or so); especially the coordination with the engine revs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3whm85yLS_M Edited July 29, 2020 by Pillar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) What looks ok in O gauge doesn't necessarily look ok in OO. Also a 37 produces a lot more clag than an 59! I think there are two things to consider with smoke: one the volume of smoke, and the second is the way it is emitted and the effect that eddies and currents in the air affect it. Regarding the volume of smoke: perhaps smoke units can be 'tuned' to produce less smoke (can anyone confirm?). The volume of smoke in the 37 vid above is still on the high side for a tractor in O scale and would be far too much for a 59 in OO. The way that the smoke emitted interacts with the air around the loco is part of the 'smoke doesn't scale' argument. The real eddies in the air are far to big at 1:76 scale and cause the smoke to be blown around unrealistically. On the 37 video you showed, the smoke is blown out so fast that it seems to overcome any currents and eddies in the air around the loco (which makes it look realistic). On the HO 66 video, the currents and eddies in the air are the predominant force and thus the effect is spoiled. Guy Edited July 29, 2020 by lyneux 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 On 28/07/2020 at 11:33, rob D2 said: I think smoke doesn’t scale , like water They physical properties such as viscosity are all the same so the dispersion effect etc. cannot be the same IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 I would be a bit dubious about smoke. It will doubtless leave some residue on surfaces and it could ruin your structures and scenery if it ends up forming a sticky residue. Unless it leaves a convincing weathered look I will steer well clear of it. Mark 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ERIC ALLTORQUE Posted August 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 4, 2020 More good film clips found on you tube of 59s,give him a like as its not my content. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDBLUE17 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 I’ve simply pre-ordered a plain DB class 59 just to be sure of getting one and also helps my preferred smaller model shop for ordering. That way I can then get Bifs new sounds from Charlie and fit later. cheers Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ERIC ALLTORQUE Posted August 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 9, 2020 Heres a few more clips of two year old 59s doing there thing,46 assorted wagons on the first clip.Not my content so give him a like 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 14 hours ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said: Heres a few more clips of two year old 59s... 59001-59004 went into service at the start of 1986, so they would be four years old and not two years old in 1990. Nice footage though! Guy 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted August 10, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, lyneux said: 59001-59004 went into service at the start of 1986, so they would be four years old and not two years old in 1990. Nice footage though! Guy May 1986, they only arrived in January, and went to Derby first. They were named in June 1986 at Merehead, iirc. 58050 came out a little later than its classmates, often suggested as bearing the fruits of various magnifying glasses at Derby a year earlier. Edited August 10, 2020 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) They were at the RTC in Derby in January 1986 but by February 1986 they were hauling trains out of Merehead. Plenty of photographic evidence out there, e.g. : https://www.flickr.com/photos/97395593@N08/15988850500/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/95960212@N08/26633679996/ 47 minutes ago, adb968008 said: 58050 came out a little later than its classmates, often suggested as bearing the fruits of various magnifying glasses at Derby a year earlier. I'm not sure you mean 58050... that's a different class of loco! Guy Edited August 10, 2020 by lyneux Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz9284 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 23 minutes ago, lyneux said: They were at the RTC in Derby in January 1986 but by February 1986 they were hauling trains out of Merehead. Plenty of photographic evidence out there, e.g. : https://www.flickr.com/photos/97395593@N08/15988850500/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/95960212@N08/26633679996/ I'm not sure you mean 58050... that's a different class of loco! Guy Guy, he does mean 58050. He's saying 58050 was released later than the other 58s due to some modifications made to 58050 after the guys at RTC had looked around the 59s 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 56 minutes ago, daz9284 said: Guy, he does mean 58050. He's saying 58050 was released later than the other 58s due to some modifications made to 58050 after the guys at RTC had looked around the 59s Makes sense now! Sorry, I didn't get that based on what was written. I thought he meant 59005! Just to follow up on the introduction date, I've got the Jane's Rail Special on the 59s open in front of me. The first revenue earning 59 operation was Monday 17th February 1986 with two trains, the 07.00 Merehead -Theale and the 10.03 Merehead-Eastleigh. So February and not May 1986. Given they only arrived in the country on 21st January that year that was less than 4 weeks to have them commissioned, tested and put into service. Not bad! Guy 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BR Blue Posted August 10, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2020 Definitely February 1986. I have that in the Jane's book and Rail Magazine of the time. 58050 had a system called SEPEX as far as I recall. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Crepello Posted August 11, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 11, 2020 Perhaps he does mean 59005? This did arrive later but I'm unaware of any mods incorporated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37501 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 58050 had Separately Excited Traction Motors. (SEPEX) I believe this was initially trialed on 56042 which had Class 58 bogies in the mid to late 1980s. The 59s have the EMD Creep Control system which gives haulage capacity much superior to the 58s. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) On 10/08/2020 at 17:15, BR Blue said: 58050 had a system called SEPEX as far as I recall. Yes correct, that was then used on the class 60 build but taken off the 58 which reverted to the fleet normal condition. Edited August 12, 2020 by black and decker boy Typo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox321 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 On 28/07/2020 at 11:33, rob D2 said: I think smoke doesn’t scale , like water Just seen all this. TBH, I think there are lots of issues - ultimately chalk and cheese. Steam and Diesel fumes are totally different and behave differently. Plus in a room, steam reacts to the environment and in harmony with air flow. Steam is a leisurely day-dream flow that dissipates into the atmosphere, whilst a diesel is about a harsh chemical reaction and expelling crap out of an engine into the atmosphere, as quickly to make room for the next explosion in a cylinder. Then of course there are ancillaries such as turbos etc.. Its not relaxing, but very deliberate and chaos inside there. None of it is pretty, although to us railway people, very little else sounds as wonderful as a locomotive throbbing away. To do smoke effectively, just like sound - you need to understand what is going on in that loco, and "somehow" recreate it! One day someone will no doubt do it, but its going to be difficult. If steam is the answer, and personally I think that is the "red herring", then it needs to be manipulated, and really well. The other problem is going to be air currents in rooms, which would be a particularly difficult issue i exhibition halls . Until that day its never going to give a faithful recreation, but resemble Austin Powers having a relaxing fag "baby"! Best Regards, C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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