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Class 59 in 00


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On 25/07/2020 at 00:03, charliepetty said:

Just in case one wondered if Legomanbiffo was getting excited about the Dapol 59 !!!

 

 

I take it one won’t be the new Rapido operations manager then Charlie? ;)

 

Daddy Ying... well done Ian! Which 59 was it recorded off?

 

Guy

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The Smoke it totally wrong for Diesels, especially for Class 59/66 locos, but sadly we have the modellers who almost certainly will enjoy the 'Play Element' in these models.

Assumong Zimo have not thrown anything in there to stop you using other decoders then we will program in this 'Play Element' as people will buy them.

 

Charlie

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Fan-driven smoke units can give a much more convincing exhaust effect:

 

 

I've tried to find out from Dapol whether this is the type of thing they'll be using, but no luck so far. I'd love to see something like this in the '59.

 

Liam

 

 

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Imagine a row of Victorian houses, and each with a different scent ... !!

 

I'm trying not to imagine what the loft would look / smell like!!

At least if it were a shed, you could have doors and windows opened from time to time!!

 

Al.

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I must have had a brain fade ordering a smoke generator version. Having watched the efforts on the Rush-Rail model I suddenly came to my senses and changed my order to just DCC sound. Even the fan assited smoke gen. would not really look right on a 59....Phew!

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What looks ok in O gauge doesn't necessarily look ok in OO. Also a 37 produces a lot more clag than an 59! I think there are two things to consider with smoke: one the volume of smoke, and the second is the way it is emitted and the effect that eddies and currents in the air affect it.

 

Regarding the volume of smoke: perhaps smoke units can be 'tuned' to produce less smoke (can anyone confirm?). The volume of smoke in the 37 vid above is still on the high side for a tractor in O scale and would be far too much for a 59 in OO.

 

The way that the smoke emitted interacts with the air around the loco is part of the 'smoke doesn't scale' argument. The real eddies in the air are far to big at 1:76 scale and cause the smoke to be blown around unrealistically. On the 37 video you showed, the smoke is blown out so fast that it seems to overcome any currents and eddies in the air around the loco (which makes it look realistic). On the HO 66 video, the currents and eddies in the air are the predominant force and thus the effect is spoiled.

 

Guy

Edited by lyneux
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I would be a bit dubious about smoke. It will doubtless leave some residue on surfaces and it could ruin your structures and scenery if it ends up forming a sticky residue. Unless it leaves a convincing weathered look I will steer well clear of it.

 

Mark

 

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14 hours ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

Heres a few more clips of two year old 59s...

 

59001-59004 went into service at the start of 1986, so they would be four years old and not two years old in 1990.

 

Nice footage though!

 

Guy

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1 hour ago, lyneux said:

 

59001-59004 went into service at the start of 1986, so they would be four years old and not two years old in 1990.

 

Nice footage though!

 

Guy

May 1986, they only arrived in January, and went to Derby first.

They were named in June 1986 at Merehead, iirc.

58050 came out a little later than its classmates, often suggested as bearing the fruits of various magnifying glasses at Derby a year earlier.

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They were at the RTC in Derby in January 1986 but by February 1986 they were hauling trains out of Merehead. Plenty of photographic evidence out there, e.g. :

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/97395593@N08/15988850500/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/95960212@N08/26633679996/

 

47 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

58050 came out a little later than its classmates, often suggested as bearing the fruits of various magnifying glasses at Derby a year earlier.

 

I'm not sure you mean 58050... that's a different class of loco!

 

Guy

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23 minutes ago, lyneux said:

They were at the RTC in Derby in January 1986 but by February 1986 they were hauling trains out of Merehead. Plenty of photographic evidence out there, e.g. :

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/97395593@N08/15988850500/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/95960212@N08/26633679996/

 

 

I'm not sure you mean 58050... that's a different class of loco!

 

Guy

 Guy, he does mean 58050. He's saying 58050 was released later than the other 58s due to some modifications made to 58050 after the guys at RTC had looked around the 59s

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56 minutes ago, daz9284 said:

 Guy, he does mean 58050. He's saying 58050 was released later than the other 58s due to some modifications made to 58050 after the guys at RTC had looked around the 59s

 

Makes sense now! Sorry, I didn't get that based on what was written. I thought he meant 59005!

 

Just to follow up on the introduction date, I've got the Jane's Rail Special on the 59s open in front of me. The first revenue earning 59 operation was Monday 17th February 1986 with two trains, the 07.00 Merehead -Theale and the 10.03 Merehead-Eastleigh.

 

So February and not May 1986. Given they only arrived in the country on 21st January that year that was less than 4 weeks to have them commissioned, tested and put into service. Not bad!

 

Guy

 

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58050 had Separately Excited Traction Motors. (SEPEX) I believe this was initially trialed on 56042 which had Class 58 bogies in the mid to late 1980s. The 59s have the EMD Creep Control system which gives haulage capacity much superior to the 58s.

 

John

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On 28/07/2020 at 11:33, rob D2 said:

I think smoke doesn’t scale , like water

 

Just seen all this.  

 

TBH, I think there are lots of issues - ultimately chalk and cheese.

 

Steam and Diesel fumes are totally different and behave differently.  Plus in a room, steam reacts to the environment and in harmony with air flow.  Steam is a leisurely day-dream flow that dissipates into the atmosphere, whilst a diesel is about a harsh chemical reaction and expelling crap out of an engine into the atmosphere, as quickly to make room for the next explosion in a cylinder.  Then of course there are ancillaries such as turbos etc..  Its not relaxing, but very deliberate and chaos inside there.  None of it is pretty, although to us railway people, very little else sounds as wonderful as a locomotive throbbing away.  To do smoke effectively, just like sound - you need to understand what is going on in that loco, and "somehow" recreate it!  One day someone will no doubt do it, but its going to be difficult.  If steam is the answer, and personally I think that is the "red herring", then it needs to be manipulated, and really well.  The other problem is going to be air currents in rooms, which would be a particularly difficult issue i exhibition halls .  Until that day its never going to give a faithful recreation, but resemble Austin Powers having a relaxing fag "baby"!

 

Best Regards,

 

C.

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