Class 59 in 00

[LaGrange]

On 10/12/2021 at 19:55, rob D2 said:

Much longer and we will have some conspiracy theories ….didn’t it take less time for GM to build and deliver the real ones ?

 

Correct - The first order for four Class 59s was placed on 16 November 1984 and the locomotives arrived at Southampton on 21 January 1986....... Would have taken less only the design had to fit inside the UK loading gauge, most of the components were well tried and tested

 

 

[Global]

14 minutes ago, LaGrange said:

 

Correct - The first order for four Class 59s was placed on 16 November 1984 and the locomotives arrived at Southampton on 21 January 1986....... Would have taken less only the design had to fit inside the UK loading gauge, most of the components were well tried and tested

 

 

If it takes much longer it must be getting nearer to the time taken to deliver from 59001 to 59206!! Lol. 

[BR Blue]

If the 59 is not in production already then we are unlikely to see it before June next year. There is production time and transport time and also Chinese New Year to factor in. Unfortunately I do not see this arriving soon.

[newbryford]

38 minutes ago, BR Blue said:

If the 59 is not in production already then we are unlikely to see it before June next year. There is production time and transport time and also Chinese New Year to factor in. Unfortunately I do not see this arriving soon.

 

More time to save up for one....

[martin_l_jones]

7 hours ago, pheaton said:

dont think you could determine anything from it lol, it was the most non commital post ive ever seen lol.......id say we are looking Q4 22 now

 

Your absolutely right, hence my gut feeling they've not got a production slot yet, but I'm sure it's going to be worth the wait, if the 68 is anything to go by.

[adb968008]

My reading on it, makes sense, if i’m reading it correctly…

 

it suggests to me they are bringing forward more liveries into the pipeline before making the original versions.

it is very ambiguous language in that statement, but I could understand why they want to play cautious both on whats in the competitive public domain, and given how China manufacturing is.

 

Of course there is another question to ask besides time… the £$€¥ question…current quoted pricing is 6 years old, the next batch of 68’s are £189..and thats an older well used tooling.

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by adb968008

[rembrow]

I'm wondering if they've used available production slots for the GWR Mogul, Prairie and Manor models, as they faced more competition with these and gave them priority. Certainly the Manor development has been almost stratospheric  in Dapol terms.

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, rembrow said:

I'm wondering if they've used available production slots for the GWR Mogul, Prairie and Manor models, as they faced more competition with these and gave them priority. Certainly the Manor development has been almost stratospheric  in Dapol terms.

Tbh I feel for Dapol, they are finding themselves in a shared bath, invariably after the first person already bathed in it, when it comes to OO..

first the 121, then the Terrier, Prarie, Manor..

 

I think they might need to rethink their niche, or approach to OO, unless of course its working out for them. Commissioning seems to be working out though.

 

Theres plenty of greenfield market spaces in oo, but all the manufacturers seem content to swim in the same muddy water… I don't get how stepping on each others toes is less risky than a new market, especially when the toes they are stepping on are themselves built on top of duplications, that a lot of modellers are content with keeping, in view of prices asked for new.

 

[Roy Langridge]

42 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Tbh I feel for Dapol, they are finding themselves in a shared bath, invariably after the first person already bathed in it, when it comes to OO..

first the 121, then the Terrier, Prarie, Manor..

 

I think they might need to rethink their niche, or approach to OO, unless of course its working out for them. Commissioning seems to be working out though.

 

Theres plenty of greenfield market spaces in oo, but all the manufacturers seem content to swim in the same muddy water… I don't get how stepping on each others toes is less risky than a new market, especially when the toes they are stepping on are themselves built on top of duplications, that a lot of modellers are content with keeping, in view of prices asked for new.

 

 

I feel Dapol need to go down the "announce closer to release" route, partially to avoid another Terrier saga and secondly to stop the moans about delivery times.

 

I would tend to consider that cashflow may be an issue in delays as well (few companies are immune), and I don't mean just for Dapol. As I suggested above, Covid is causing headaches delaying the sale of goods, then Dapol had the delays over the Ever Given to contend with on top. We keep being told how expensive tooling is, any company needs a return on its investment to further other projects.

Roy

 

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

I think they might need to rethink their niche, or approach to OO

 

I think Dapol are arguably the best there is at the moment at making use of their existing tooling.

 

Look at how many runs of HIA, IOA, JNA Falcons and 68s they have done over the last few years, and offering different running numbers whilst they are at it. Hornby and Bachmann don't seem to do that. I'm sure its something like over 25% of all HIAs have now been done or something.

 

I think the issue is probably how quickl;y they can develop stuff whilst juggling between O, OO and N. The amount of runs they do on stuff means they mustn't struggle too much for build slots surely?

[letterspider]

They are a very small outfit, and it is very tough tines

[John M Upton]

Perhaps Dapol should concentrate on N, the demand is definitely there BUT they will need to sort out their quality control big time.

 

They can produce some exquisite models but the QC on livery application is 1980's era level of shockingly bad (see the Mk3 sleepers for the latest example of how Dapol can really cock it up)

 

[KDG]

32 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

Perhaps Dapol should concentrate on N, the demand is definitely there BUT they will need to sort out their quality control big time.

 

They can produce some exquisite models but the QC on livery application is 1980's era level of shockingly bad (see the Mk3 sleepers for the latest example of how Dapol can really cock it up)

 

I do hope not.

 

Their renditions of IOA, and JNA's are essential for todays modern railway in OO. Silver bullets look and run really well.  MRA's are impressive with hunt couplings, MJA and HIA are quality wagons at very affordable prices too. I have a couple of KTA's too which look great.  They are good at providing subsequent runs with different numbers. Approximately 60% of my wagon fleet is Dapol, unthinkable they would ditch OO.

 

Seasons Greetings to all.

[TomScrut]

19 minutes ago, KDG said:

Their renditions of IOA, and JNA's are essential for todays modern railway in OO. Silver bullets look and run really well.  MRA's are impressive with hunt couplings, MJA and HIA are quality wagons at very affordable prices too.

 

Yes, I have IOAs, JNAs, MRAs, MJAs and HIAs and have had silver bullets in the past. My layout would be a lot different without them, probably about 50% of the wagons I have at the moment (although I have a lot of AS stuff on pre order).

[martin_l_jones]

Update from the Dapol digest states waiting a production slot....

 

Hopefully before the Chinese New Year, if not it will be much later in the year for delivery, or sadly early 2022....

Edited December 20, 2021 by martin_l_jones

[woodenhead]

7 minutes ago, martin_l_jones said:

Update from the Dapol digest states waiting a production slot....

 

Hopefully before the Chinese New Year, if not it will be much later in the year for delivery, or sadly early 2022....

Do you mean 2023?

[martin_l_jones]

6 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Do you mean 2023?

 

I'm optimistic, yes should be 2023

[1andrew1]

On 18/12/2021 at 09:14, John M Upton said:

Perhaps Dapol should concentrate on N, the demand is definitely there BUT they will need to sort out their quality control big time.

 

They can produce some exquisite models but the QC on livery application is 1980's era level of shockingly bad (see the Mk3 sleepers for the latest example of how Dapol can really cock it up)

 

If cash becomes an issue, then maybe Dapol could do what they did before, namely sell some molds to Hornby? Dapol could then operate a more limited OO range and focus new investment on N and O gauge and OO gauge commissions. 
 

The price increases on model railways, and anticipated squeeze on consumer spending (due to increases in the pipeline for fuel and other essential goods) suggest a reduction in the UK model railway market for the next couple of years.

Edited January 5, 2022 by 1andrew1
addition of brackets

[rob D2]

Yes, it’s true to say their wagons are excellent value in that area of the market where some really take the mick with the pricing of old models 

[Katie87006]

On 12/12/2021 at 13:45, adb968008 said:

It was in a very early episode.

an EP of a 30 year old model, which was upgrade several years back already, why would they need that ? - for any testing just grab a stock one, like they did with the 66… it was made for some reason, but was too far out of shot to get defintion.

it looks exactly like the current Hornby (old lima) class 59. All the grills are moulded on the body and the roof, the plastic buffers, the split snow plough, moulded headlights and lack of fine or separate details backs it up. Claerly not a new model or new design.

 

ep samples are quite a common feature even for old models. Old models often get minor updates like nem couplers, ancient 8-pin dcc functionality, lighting or more commonly new tooling slides to replace an older tool. a factory has to test a new tool. We have seen them do exactly what I described above with the hst.

[LaGrange]

17 hours ago, 1andrew1 said:

If cash becomes an issue, then maybe Dapol could do what they did before, namely sell some molds to Hornby? Dapol could then operate a more limited OO range and focus new investment on N and O gauge and OO gauge commissions. 
 

 

That wont happen again, Dapol were undergoing a period of re-organisation and felt they couldn't compete in the OO Loco market at the time, a decision that they have since reversed. They have announced the intention of a OO scale 59 for example......

[rembrow]

1 hour ago, LaGrange said:

 

That wont happen again, Dapol were undergoing a period of re-organisation and felt they couldn't compete in the OO Loco market at the time, a decision that they have since reversed. They have announced the intention of a OO scale 59 for example......

Agree completely. The previous decision was made when George Smith was MD and Dave Jones was development manager. IIRC the last 'oo' gauge new model was the awful Pendolino, (I bought one!!!), where the coaches had a standard lower body and plug in variations for the roofs. Jones had an 'n' gauge background and his role was to develop the 'n' gauge range as the main product line. Dapol did continue to produce 'oo' gauge rolling stock using ex Hornby Dublo and Airfix tooling. Dapol also produced a number of 'oo' gauge commissioned models in this post tool selling period, including Beattie well tank, Sentinel and Stove R.

 

[1andrew1]

18 hours ago, LaGrange said:

 

That wont happen again, Dapol were undergoing a period of re-organisation and felt they couldn't compete in the OO Loco market at the time, a decision that they have since reversed. They have announced the intention of a OO scale 59 for example......

The 59 was announced over five years ago. The World's a different place now - the RTR 00 model railway market has even more players in it and faces a squeeze with substantial price increases. A general reduction in UK disposable income is in the pipeline too with hikes in energy prices and National Insurance due later this year. It's an option for Dapol, no more than that.

[Roy Langridge]

Given more recent history, I think it more likely that Dapol would drop their N Gauge offerings - not that I foresee any changes coming.

Roy

[LaGrange]

4 hours ago, 1andrew1 said:

The 59 was announced over five years ago. The World's a different place now - the RTR 00 model railway market has even more players in it and faces a squeeze with substantial price increases. A general reduction in UK disposable income is in the pipeline too with hikes in energy prices and National Insurance due later this year. It's an option for Dapol, no more than that.

 

I've highlighted the main issue here. Granted global issues that have happened would be unheard of 5 years ago, but normally models dont take this long to appear, at least in 2015 they didnt, but they are now, a certain Barwell based manufacturer being a good example, being rapidly followed by a Margate based one...

 

You wont see it this side of June 2022 either, so second half maybe. By then it will be 6 years..........