dibber25 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Now I don't need to convert my Van Hobbies Royal Hudson to DCC. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 I The same problem exists not just in Canadian steam, but all North American steam. The models that are available - non-brass - are all of "popular" typically large steam engines but it is typically 1 maybe 2 engines per railroad. Not enough to realistically model a portion of a railroad in the diversity of motive power, and more often that not the smaller more common engines are missing entirely. .This has the opportunity to create an large number of the Canadian equivalent to the British steam branchline terminus layouts that are so popular in the UK. Small? The ones Rapido are proposing look pretty big to me! They dwarf almost everything in UK outline. Somehow, I will have a hard time thinking "country branchline layout" with one of these beasts pondering along it. Saying a Selkirk is the Canadian equivalent of an Adams radial just doesn't fit in my mind. I admit I am seriously tempted by some of these beasts, maybe when I move to Canada. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Henriksen Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Small? The ones Rapido are proposing look pretty big to me! They dwarf almost everything in UK outline. Somehow, I will have a hard time thinking "country branchline layout" with one of these beasts pondering along it. Saying a Selkirk is the Canadian equivalent of an Adams radial just doesn't fit in my mind. I admit I am seriously tempted by some of these beasts, maybe when I move to Canada. Well, Canada didn't have any the big steam that the US had. The CPR D10 and I assume the CNR Ten Wheeler were your typical branchline type of loco in Canada, remembering that the freight and passenger cars were all much bigger than what you would have seen in the UK. The CPR did use a slightly smaller D6 on some lighter branches, but it was still a 4-6-0. Some pictures see http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/CPR_Bruce/branches_gallery.htm And a video of train action in Elora, Ontario, the end of a branchline that at that time was likely only seeing 1 train a day (train part starts at about the 1 minute mark): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LR894coa68 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 The engine in the Elora video was a D10 FWIW, the D4g was a smaller version for light branches but the lightest lines got real vintage 4-4-0s built in the late 1880s. CN had some rather nice Mogul 2-6-0s that saw branch line us but 4-6-0s were more common. Cheers, David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
malcolmt Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I'd kill, figuratively speaking of course for a model of one of the vintage CPR 4-4-0s. 29 is parked outside Gulf Canada Square on 9th Avenue here in Calgary. Maybe it could be number 13 in the series. Malcolm Turner Calgary, Alberta Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Henriksen Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I would expect that the 4-4-0s might be a bit to rare for the post-WW2 modeling period that is most popular, so might be an interesting sell. What I would hope to see by that point, though again it may not sell enough, is some sort of switcher type steam locomotive along the lines of a 0-6-0 or 0-8-0 that could complement the already announced lineup on layouts. Then again, we are talking 8 years from now and things may have changed in terms of how small a run of models is economical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 ... if the availability of (more) affordable and accurate Canadian steam models increases the number of people actually taking the plunge in our hobby, we'll all be better for it. 'Build it and they will come' I believe is the appropriate expression. Just you get that lovely little Stirling single finished before embarking on all this big stuff, eh? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Jason, As a UK modeller based in Western Australia since 1974, and no thought of leaving!!, I think the depth and breadth of this project is awe-inspiring. I wish you all the very best with it, the CP Royal Hudsons were seen in my early 'picture books' as a small boy. Wow, did they look different to a 'Hall' or 'Black 5' . With the very best wishes from Australia, Peter C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I would expect that the 4-4-0s might be a bit to rare for the post-WW2 modeling period that is most popular, so might be an interesting sell. What I would hope to see by that point, though again it may not sell enough, is some sort of switcher type steam locomotive along the lines of a 0-6-0 or 0-8-0 that could complement the already announced lineup on layouts. Then again, we are talking 8 years from now and things may have changed in terms of how small a run of models is economical. The branch lines in New Brunswick had 4-4-0s right up until the end which is why 136 & 29 survived to the present day. 136 still runs on the South Simcoe (I think) so is available for measurements (hint,hint) I agree that a switcher would be a Good Thing but as you say, it's early days and 'market forces' may come into play. Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenway Park Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Three 4-4-0s were on the Norton to Chipman branch in New Brunswick until 1959, CPR no. 29 136 and 144. This was because of a weak or several weak bridges. There was an article in the Trains of the 1950s which reprinted several articles of steam chasing in Canada by David Morgan and his co author whose name I have forgotten. So there is scope to produce these three veterans but they appear to be the Canadian equivalent of the Adams Radial of Beattie Well Tank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
malcolmt Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I think, subject to check, the 144 was used on the Kettle Valley line in Southern BC to film the CBC production of Pierre Berton's National Dream. The National Dream is the story of the building of the CPR in the 1880's for all you Brits out there. I recall the programme was filmed in the mid 1970's. I presume 144 still exists and would be available for measurement. Malcolm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Henriksen Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 As mentioned above 136 is still in operation at the South Simcoe Railway, which is a mere 70 km away from Rapido's world headquarters. 144 is at Exporail which may make it more convenient, though it would depend on accessibility and what sort of condition it is in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I think, subject to check, the 144 was used on the Kettle Valley line in Southern BC to film the CBC production of Pierre Berton's National Dream. The National Dream is the story of the building of the CPR in the 1880's for all you Brits out there. I recall the programme was filmed in the mid 1970's. I presume 144 still exists and would be available for measurement. Malcolm Actually 136 was the engine used for the National Dream and still has the backdated cab. She appeared in a number of disguises in the filming. As Gerald mention she is still steaming at http://www.southsimcoerailway.ca/ Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Henriksen Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 From another source, the 4-4-0s used in New Brunswick are all different which would make it more problematic for them to be done as models. In particular 29 (A1e) has 70" drivers while 136 (A2m) and 144 (A2q) had 63" drivers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjgardiner Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 I am, quite frankly, ecstatic with the announcement. Its going to cost me a lot of money over the next seven or so years. For a couple of types, i am going to potentially want multiple numbers (this will of course make Jason happy, as i haven't been buying any New Haven models and am only buying a small fleet of 2-3 RDC's!!). Of course starting with the Royal Hudson, I want a 1939 Royal Train loco for display, and probably one more workaday RH for my hopeful future layout. Out of the 12 groups of classes, there are maybe 5 that i have no use or desire for any of them (i think!!). For sure no CPR Selkirk in my future, and as a CN modeller; CPR Light and Heavy Pacifics; H1a/b Hudsons are not needed. Technically, i have no use for a Jubilee either, but that will be a display model as they are sharp looking locomotives! Even the big CN locos are probably too big for my Ontario branchline universe, but again, one will be a Royal Train, and the other will be 6069 which i remember seeing as a kid on trips to where its on display in Sarnia. I've finally caught up with a crazy work week, and got some pictures posted to Flickr from the train up to Montreal on Sunday: https://www.flickr.com/photos/55976115@N00/archives/date-taken/2015/10/11/ I will update the post over the weekend when i get pictures from Exporail on Sunday posted. Cheers Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I think, subject to check, the 144 was used on the Kettle Valley line in Southern BC to film the CBC production of Pierre Berton's National Dream. The National Dream is the story of the building of the CPR in the 1880's for all you Brits out there. I recall the programme was filmed in the mid 1970's. I presume 144 still exists and would be available for measurement. Malcolm The National Dream was shown on British TV in the 1970s. It was one of the things that got me interested in Canadian railways. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I am, quite frankly, ecstatic with the announcement. Its going to cost me a lot of money over the next seven or so years. For a couple of types, i am going to potentially want multiple numbers (this will of course make Jason happy, as i haven't been buying any New Haven models and am only buying a small fleet of 2-3 RDC's!!). Of course starting with the Royal Hudson, I want a 1939 Royal Train loco for display, and probably one more workaday RH for my hopeful future layout. Out of the 12 groups of classes, there are maybe 5 that i have no use or desire for any of them (i think!!). For sure no CPR Selkirk in my future, and as a CN modeller; CPR Light and Heavy Pacifics; H1a/b Hudsons are not needed. Technically, i have no use for a Jubilee either, but that will be a display model as they are sharp looking locomotives! Even the big CN locos are probably too big for my Ontario branchline universe, but again, one will be a Royal Train, and the other will be 6069 which i remember seeing as a kid on trips to where its on display in Sarnia. I've finally caught up with a crazy work week, and got some pictures posted to Flickr from the train up to Montreal on Sunday: https://www.flickr.com/photos/55976115@N00/archives/date-taken/2015/10/11/ I will update the post over the weekend when i get pictures from Exporail on Sunday posted. Cheers Stephen Where did you see the Budd RDCs? I hear there's a plan to test run them between London and Windsor and to terminate all existing services at London. The idea is to free-up a couple of train sets to give increased frequency between London-Toronto-Montreal. The down side of that, of course, is that passengers to/from stations between London and Windsor have to change trains and lose time at London. Shows how desperately short of equipment VIA is. It's a big gamble but in the worst case scenario if you lose traffic between London and Windsor, you withdraw the service altogether and cut back to London. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjgardiner Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 Where did you see the Budd RDCs? I hear there's a plan to test run them between London and Windsor and to terminate all existing services at London. The idea is to free-up a couple of train sets to give increased frequency between London-Toronto-Montreal. The down side of that, of course, is that passengers to/from stations between London and Windsor have to change trains and lose time at London. Shows how desperately short of equipment VIA is. It's a big gamble but in the worst case scenario if you lose traffic between London and Windsor, you withdraw the service altogether and cut back to London. CHRIS LEIGH Three of them were dragged from Montreal to Ottawa behind a service train last Thursday or Friday. They were still there when we passed through Sunday, and as far as i know, they are still sitting at the Ottawa station. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) Three of them were dragged from Montreal to Ottawa behind a service train last Thursday or Friday. They were still there when we passed through Sunday, and as far as i know, they are still sitting at the Ottawa station. Stephen Very interesting. These are the cars that usually work Sudbury-White River, so I wonder what was running that service while they were away? Also, why take them to Ottawa? The station there is miles out of town, so it's hardly a good place to show them off. Something to do with Government, I wonder, with the man at the top of VIA wanting more federal loot to repair the ones that are at the TMC. I guess it's related to this plan for the London-Windsor service - easier to take the train to Ottawa than to take the politicians to Sudbury, I guess! CHRIS LEIGH PS Yes, just looked it up. Appears to be a VIA-inspired exercise to create one of those nice domino effects where you screw up Sudbury-White River service (by replacing Budd cars with a more expensive loco, coach and baggage car) and in turn screw up London-Windsor by withdrawing through trains and making journeys longer, slower and less comfortable. Hey presto, another two VIA services get withdrawn in the relentless quest to rid Canada of government-operated passenger trains. Edited October 17, 2015 by dibber25 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenway Park Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Hi Chris, I thought VIA are using RDCs between Jasper and Prince Rupert. So is this the next service to go? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Hi Chris, I thought VIA are using RDCs between Jasper and Prince Rupert. So is this the next service to go? They were tried - two cars that had originally been intended for Vancouver Island - but my understanding is that they were unsuccessful on the Prince Rupert run. It had been hoped that they could haul a dome car in the summer but that proved impractical. As far as I know, its still an F40-PH and a couple of cars. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjgardiner Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 I will update the post over the weekend when i get pictures from Exporail on Sunday posted. Cheers Stephen Finally got Monday pictures from Exporail and a couple from the voyage home posted: https://www.flickr.com/photos/55976115@N00/archives/date-taken/2015/10/12/ Stephen 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Henriksen Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Here's a picture showing how to make Jason happy by needing 2 of his products - http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/CPR_London/3002a.jpg - an RDC and one of the upcoming Jubilees (though I doubt either of the other 2 pieces of rolling stock will be available RTR). Description can be found on the web page it is from - http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/CPR_London/history_passenger.htm 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Here's a picture showing how to make Jason happy by needing 2 of his products - http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/CPR_London/3002a.jpg - an RDC and one of the upcoming Jubilees (though I doubt either of the other 2 pieces of rolling stock will be available RTR). You could use the Rapido CN LW Coach in CP Maroon as a stand-in for the CP prototype, but the other one may need a bit of modelling... Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidotrains Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 You could use the Rapido CN LW Coach in CP Maroon as a stand-in for the CP prototype, but the other one may need a bit of modelling... Adrian Or you can wait and someone will eventually produce accurate 2200s. Don't know who that could be. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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