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Icons of Canadian Steam, led by the Royal Hudson


sjgardiner
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The same problem exists not just in Canadian steam, but all North American steam.  The models that are available - non-brass - are all of "popular" typically large steam engines but it is typically 1 maybe 2 engines per railroad.  Not enough to realistically model a portion of a railroad in the diversity of motive power, and more often that not the smaller more common engines are missing entirely.

 

.This has the opportunity to create an large number of the Canadian equivalent to the British steam branchline terminus layouts that are so popular in the UK.

 

Small? The ones Rapido are proposing look pretty big to me! They dwarf almost everything in UK outline. Somehow, I will have a hard time thinking "country branchline layout" with one of these beasts pondering along it. Saying a Selkirk is the Canadian equivalent of an Adams radial just doesn't fit in my mind.

 

I admit I am seriously tempted by some of these beasts, maybe when I move to Canada.

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Small? The ones Rapido are proposing look pretty big to me! They dwarf almost everything in UK outline. Somehow, I will have a hard time thinking "country branchline layout" with one of these beasts pondering along it. Saying a Selkirk is the Canadian equivalent of an Adams radial just doesn't fit in my mind.

 

I admit I am seriously tempted by some of these beasts, maybe when I move to Canada.

 

Well, Canada didn't have any the big steam that the US had.

 

The CPR D10 and I assume the CNR Ten Wheeler were your typical branchline type of loco in Canada, remembering that the freight and passenger cars were all much bigger than what you would have seen in the UK.

 

The CPR did use a slightly smaller D6 on some lighter branches, but it was still a 4-6-0.

 

Some pictures see http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/CPR_Bruce/branches_gallery.htm

 

And a video of train action in Elora, Ontario, the end of a branchline that at that time was likely only seeing 1 train a day (train part starts at about the 1 minute mark):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LR894coa68

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The engine in the Elora video was a D10 FWIW, the D4g was a smaller version for light branches but the lightest lines got real vintage 4-4-0s built in the late 1880s. CN had some rather nice Mogul 2-6-0s that saw branch line us but 4-6-0s were more common.

 

Cheers,

 

David

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I would expect that the 4-4-0s might be a bit to rare for the post-WW2 modeling period that is most popular, so might be an interesting sell.

 

What I would hope to see by that point, though again it may not sell enough, is some sort of switcher type steam locomotive along the lines of a 0-6-0 or 0-8-0 that could complement the already announced lineup on layouts.

 

Then again, we are talking 8 years from now and things may have changed in terms of how small a run of models is economical.

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... if the availability of (more) affordable and accurate Canadian steam models increases the number of people actually taking the plunge in our hobby, we'll all be better for it.

 'Build it and they will come' I believe is the appropriate expression. Just you get that lovely little Stirling single finished before embarking on all this big stuff, eh?

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Jason,

            As a UK modeller based in Western Australia since 1974, and no thought of leaving!!, I think the depth and breadth of this project is awe-inspiring. I wish you all the very best with it, the CP Royal Hudsons were seen in my early 'picture books' as a small boy. Wow, did they look different to a 'Hall' or 'Black 5' .

 With the very best wishes from Australia,

Peter C.

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I would expect that the 4-4-0s might be a bit to rare for the post-WW2 modeling period that is most popular, so might be an interesting sell.

 

What I would hope to see by that point, though again it may not sell enough, is some sort of switcher type steam locomotive along the lines of a 0-6-0 or 0-8-0 that could complement the already announced lineup on layouts.

 

Then again, we are talking 8 years from now and things may have changed in terms of how small a run of models is economical.

The branch lines in New Brunswick had 4-4-0s right up until the end which is why 136 & 29 survived to the present day. 136 still runs on the South Simcoe (I think) so is available for measurements (hint,hint)

 

I agree that a switcher would be a Good Thing but as you say, it's early days and 'market forces' may come into play.

 

Cheers,

 

David

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Three 4-4-0s were on the Norton to Chipman branch in New Brunswick until 1959, CPR no. 29 136 and 144. This was because of a weak or several weak bridges. There was an article in the Trains of the 1950s which reprinted several articles of steam chasing in Canada by David Morgan and his co author whose name I have forgotten. 

 

So there is scope to produce these three veterans but they appear to be the Canadian equivalent of the Adams Radial of Beattie Well Tank.

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I think, subject to check, the 144 was used on the Kettle Valley line in Southern BC to film the CBC production of Pierre Berton's National Dream.  The National Dream is the story of the building of the CPR in the 1880's for all you Brits out there.  I recall the programme was filmed in the mid 1970's.  I presume 144 still exists and would be available for measurement.

 

Malcolm

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I think, subject to check, the 144 was used on the Kettle Valley line in Southern BC to film the CBC production of Pierre Berton's National Dream.  The National Dream is the story of the building of the CPR in the 1880's for all you Brits out there.  I recall the programme was filmed in the mid 1970's.  I presume 144 still exists and would be available for measurement.

 

Malcolm

Actually 136 was the engine used for the National Dream and still has the backdated cab. She appeared in a number of disguises in the filming. As Gerald mention she is still steaming at http://www.southsimcoerailway.ca/

 

Cheers,

 

David

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I am, quite frankly, ecstatic with the announcement.  Its going to cost me a lot of money over the next seven or so years.  For a couple of types, i am going to potentially want multiple numbers (this will of course make Jason happy, as i haven't been buying any New Haven models and am only buying a small fleet of 2-3 RDC's!!).  Of course starting with the Royal Hudson, I want a 1939 Royal Train loco for display, and probably one more workaday RH for my hopeful future layout.  Out of the 12 groups of classes, there are maybe 5 that i have no use or desire for any of them (i think!!).  For sure no CPR Selkirk in my future, and as a CN modeller; CPR Light and Heavy Pacifics;  H1a/b Hudsons are not needed.  Technically, i have no use for a Jubilee either, but that will be a display model as they are sharp looking locomotives!  Even the big CN locos are probably too big for my Ontario branchline universe, but again, one will be a Royal Train, and the other will be 6069 which i remember seeing as a kid on trips to where its on display in Sarnia.

 

I've finally caught up with a crazy work week, and got some pictures posted to Flickr from the train up to Montreal on Sunday: https://www.flickr.com/photos/55976115@N00/archives/date-taken/2015/10/11/

 

I will update the post over the weekend when i get pictures from Exporail on Sunday posted.

 

Cheers

 

Stephen

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I think, subject to check, the 144 was used on the Kettle Valley line in Southern BC to film the CBC production of Pierre Berton's National Dream.  The National Dream is the story of the building of the CPR in the 1880's for all you Brits out there.  I recall the programme was filmed in the mid 1970's.  I presume 144 still exists and would be available for measurement.

 

Malcolm

The National Dream was shown on British TV in the 1970s. It was one of the things that got me interested in Canadian railways.

CHRIS LEIGH

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I am, quite frankly, ecstatic with the announcement.  Its going to cost me a lot of money over the next seven or so years.  For a couple of types, i am going to potentially want multiple numbers (this will of course make Jason happy, as i haven't been buying any New Haven models and am only buying a small fleet of 2-3 RDC's!!).  Of course starting with the Royal Hudson, I want a 1939 Royal Train loco for display, and probably one more workaday RH for my hopeful future layout.  Out of the 12 groups of classes, there are maybe 5 that i have no use or desire for any of them (i think!!).  For sure no CPR Selkirk in my future, and as a CN modeller; CPR Light and Heavy Pacifics;  H1a/b Hudsons are not needed.  Technically, i have no use for a Jubilee either, but that will be a display model as they are sharp looking locomotives!  Even the big CN locos are probably too big for my Ontario branchline universe, but again, one will be a Royal Train, and the other will be 6069 which i remember seeing as a kid on trips to where its on display in Sarnia.

 

I've finally caught up with a crazy work week, and got some pictures posted to Flickr from the train up to Montreal on Sunday: https://www.flickr.com/photos/55976115@N00/archives/date-taken/2015/10/11/

 

I will update the post over the weekend when i get pictures from Exporail on Sunday posted.

 

Cheers

 

Stephen

Where did you see the Budd RDCs? I hear there's a plan to test run them between London and Windsor and to terminate all existing services at London. The idea is to free-up a couple of train sets to give increased frequency between London-Toronto-Montreal. The down side of that, of course, is that passengers to/from stations between London and Windsor have to change trains and lose time at London. Shows how desperately short of equipment VIA is. It's a big gamble but in the worst case scenario if you lose traffic between London and Windsor, you withdraw the service altogether and cut back to London. 

CHRIS LEIGH

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Where did you see the Budd RDCs? I hear there's a plan to test run them between London and Windsor and to terminate all existing services at London. The idea is to free-up a couple of train sets to give increased frequency between London-Toronto-Montreal. The down side of that, of course, is that passengers to/from stations between London and Windsor have to change trains and lose time at London. Shows how desperately short of equipment VIA is. It's a big gamble but in the worst case scenario if you lose traffic between London and Windsor, you withdraw the service altogether and cut back to London. 

CHRIS LEIGH

 

Three of them were dragged from Montreal to Ottawa behind a service train last Thursday or Friday.  They were still there when we passed through Sunday, and as far as i know, they are still sitting at the Ottawa station.

 

Stephen

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Three of them were dragged from Montreal to Ottawa behind a service train last Thursday or Friday.  They were still there when we passed through Sunday, and as far as i know, they are still sitting at the Ottawa station.

 

Stephen

Very interesting. These are the cars that usually work Sudbury-White River, so I wonder what was running that service while they were away? Also, why take them to Ottawa? The station there is miles out of town, so it's hardly a good place to show them off. Something to do with Government, I wonder, with the man at the top of VIA wanting more federal loot to repair the ones that are at the TMC. I guess it's related to this plan for the London-Windsor service - easier to take the train to Ottawa than to take the politicians to Sudbury, I guess!

CHRIS LEIGH

PS Yes, just looked it up. Appears to be a VIA-inspired exercise to create one of those nice domino effects where you screw up Sudbury-White River service (by replacing Budd cars with a more expensive loco, coach and baggage car) and in turn screw up London-Windsor by withdrawing through trains and making journeys longer, slower and less comfortable. Hey presto, another two VIA services get withdrawn in the relentless quest to rid Canada of government-operated passenger trains.

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Hi Chris, 

 

I thought VIA are using RDCs between Jasper and Prince Rupert. So is this the next service to go?

They were tried - two cars that had originally been intended for Vancouver Island - but my understanding is that they were unsuccessful on the Prince Rupert run. It had been hoped that they could haul a dome car in the summer but that proved impractical. As far as I know, its still an F40-PH and a couple of cars.

CHRIS LEIGH

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Here's a picture showing how to make Jason happy by needing 2 of his products - http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/CPR_London/3002a.jpg - an RDC and one of the upcoming Jubilees (though I doubt either of the other 2 pieces of rolling stock will be available RTR).

 

Description can be found on the web page it is from - http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/CPR_London/history_passenger.htm

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Here's a picture showing how to make Jason happy by needing 2 of his products - http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/CPR_London/3002a.jpg - an RDC and one of the upcoming Jubilees (though I doubt either of the other 2 pieces of rolling stock will be available RTR).

 

 

You could use the Rapido CN LW Coach in CP Maroon as a stand-in for the CP prototype, but the other one may need a bit of modelling...

 

Adrian

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