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Icons of Canadian Steam, led by the Royal Hudson


sjgardiner
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Or you can wait and someone will eventually produce accurate 2200s. Don't know who that could be.

Hmm, weren't the 2200s built to go with the Jubilees? That should give enough of a lead time :declare:

 

Cheers,

 

David

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  • 3 weeks later...

Having been introduced to Canadian steam at Revelstoke Museum and Three Valley Gap roundhouse earlier this year, I'm looking forward to a CP Royal Hudson  to add to the GP40-2 Rocky Mountaineer in my Canadian collection.  My only concern - where can I get coaches to match these?

 

Unfortunately, I missed The Canadian release - wasn't aware of it at the time, and am now looking to replace my 1960's Triang Railways equivalent (just non-working loco, and tatty coaches left).  Any chance of a reissue?

 

Will see Rapido at Warley - I'll be the one with the Craigellachie t-Shirt.

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Having been introduced to Canadian steam at Revelstoke Museum and Three Valley Gap roundhouse earlier this year, I'm looking forward to a CP Royal Hudson  to add to the GP40-2 Rocky Mountaineer in my Canadian collection.  My only concern - where can I get coaches to match these?

 

Unfortunately, I missed The Canadian release - wasn't aware of it at the time, and am now looking to replace my 1960's Triang Railways equivalent (just non-working loco, and tatty coaches left).  Any chance of a reissue?

 

Will see Rapido at Warley - I'll be the one with the Craigellachie t-Shirt.

 

The Canadian Cars are all wrong for steam anyways.  Steam never hauled the Stainless Steel Budd coaches (proviso, i'm sure i've seen an odd shot here or there with a Budd in consist, but on a go-ahead Basis, the Budd equipment was introduced with the all-diesel Canadian as a marketing tool of modernity).  If you just want a Canadian to have one, they turn up from time to time on ebay or in stores.  Credit Valley Railroad in Missisauga has an Action Red on consignment for about $2K Canadian, or at least they did last thursday when i was in.

 

If you want accurate steam-era passenger cars, you can build a fleet from BGR Resin kits - http://home.cogeco.ca/~bgrgroup/index.html or run with various RTR heavyweight cars from Atlas (ex Branchline molds) or Walthers in CPR Tuscan that will at least approximate the look of a Steam Era passenger train in Canada.

 

Cheers,

 

Stephen

Edited by sjgardiner
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If you want accurate steam-era passenger cars, you can build a fleet from BGR Resin kits - http://home.cogeco.ca/~bgrgroup/index.html or run with various RTR heavyweight cars from Atlas (ex Branchline molds) or Walthers in CPR Tuscan that will at least approximate the look of a Steam Era passenger train in Canada.

Also, Jason's comment in post#52 suggests that we might see some coaches out of Rapido in the future.

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The Canadian Cars are all wrong for steam anyways.  Steam never hauled the Stainless Steel Budd coaches (proviso, i'm sure i've seen an odd shot here or there with a Budd in consist, but on a go-ahead Basis, the Budd equipment was introduced with the all-diesel Canadian as a marketing tool of modernity).  If you just want a Canadian to have one, they turn up from time to time on ebay or in stores.  Credit Valley Railroad in Missisauga has an Action Red on consignment for about $2K Canadian, or at least they did last thursday when i was in.

 

If you want accurate steam-era passenger cars, you can build a fleet from BGR Resin kits - http://home.cogeco.ca/~bgrgroup/index.html or run with various RTR heavyweight cars from Atlas (ex Branchline molds) or Walthers in CPR Tuscan that will at least approximate the look of a Steam Era passenger train in Canada.

 

Cheers,

 

Stephen

Result!

 

After 3 months looking, a Rapido 'The Canadian' set, CP Script, appears on Ebay Germany & I get my offer accepted!

 

So - Pre-order a Royal Hudson, get a few Rocky Mountaineer and Heavyweight Coaches, and I can model the Canadian Rockies - after all, none of the scenery or stations really changed over the period 1930's to date.

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  • 1 year later...

Going back to the subject of the 4-4-0s (I hadn't seen the posts about them when they were first made), I was sure there are more still around than the three mentioned (CPR 29, 136 and 144). 374 is definitely still in the Roundhouse in Vancouver.

 

I went looking and found this - http://www.exporail.org/can_rail/Canadian%20Rail_no531_2009.pdf Apparently there are 6 ex-CP 4-4-0s and one ex-CN. One of them was even built in Glasgow. (See pages 130-131 by page number - pages 6 and 7 of the pdf document.)

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Wasn't that the one that was often used in the Westerns?

 

One of only three locomotive types from North America that I had even vague knowledge of when growing up. The typical 4-4-0 like Number 3, the Big Boys and Royal Hudson.

 

However I was confused about Royal Hudson as I was convinced it was British at the time and wondered why it wasn't in any of my books.  :laugh: 

 

 

 

Jason

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I'm wondering about the decision taken to adopt an all-geared drivetrain for these, rather than one axle and con-rod driven.

 

I must admit to not being keen on the valve gear being merely "along for the ride" and wonder why this decision has been taken? I don't particularly like it on the DJ J94 and Kernow 02, but as inside cylindered locos it might not be so noticeable as on an outside cylindered loco like the Hudson.

 

I'd be interested to hear from Bill about the thought process behind this, and how the motion will be made to look like it's working and driving, rather than just being along for the ride? As a premium-priced model, I have to say I'm finding this a tad off-putting right now and I'm reconsidering my pre-orders. The "traditional" method has worked for Hornby, Bachmann etc for years, and works for those of us building steam locos from kits or scratch. Why "reinvent the chassis" now?

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I don't think you should dismiss the option outright, TBH. It allows more prototypical engineering of the valve gear parts, as they don't have to withstand the forces required to use as actual drive rods.

 

I'm not dismissing the option outright at all.. I'm interested in hearing from Bill the pros and cons and rationale behind the decision...

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I'm wondering about the decision taken to adopt an all-geared drivetrain for these, rather than one axle and con-rod driven.

 

I must admit to not being keen on the valve gear being merely "along for the ride" and wonder why this decision has been taken? I don't particularly like it on the DJ J94 and Kernow 02, but as inside cylindered locos it might not be so noticeable as on an outside cylindered loco like the Hudson.

 

I'd be interested to hear from Bill about the thought process behind this, and how the motion will be made to look like it's working and driving, rather than just being along for the ride? As a premium-priced model, I have to say I'm finding this a tad off-putting right now and I'm reconsidering my pre-orders. The "traditional" method has worked for Hornby, Bachmann etc for years, and works for those of us building steam locos from kits or scratch. Why "reinvent the chassis" now?

 

Newsletter #88 (*) says the designer Rapido have working on the Royal Hudson (Mr. Fu) has 30 years experience designing steam locomotives.  It also mentions a deadline, I wonder if Bill was able to provide the complete running samples on time ...

 

Newsletter #92 (**), which mentions the decision to go with an all main axles driven, also mentions the reasons why the decision was made (specifically to avoid uneven starts and lurching).

 

I would hesitate to make comparisons between the models of another manufacturer and what Rapido will deliver, as well as trying to compare a British model to a North American model - North American HO model trains tend to be both longer and heavier than British OO trains which might lead to different stresses on the mechanism.

 

For anybody on the fence, remember that a working sample of the Royal Hudson will be available prior to the order deadline (it will have a (currently estimated) cross-Canada hobby shop tour in January/February 2018 with the order deadline after the tour, and I am sure video will be provided in the usual Rapido manner to allow people to judge for themselves how the model performs.

 

http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Rapido-News-Vol--88---Loads-of-Project-Updates.html?soid=1101318906379&aid=EB_w9n2ql2c#a9

 

** http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Rapido-News-Vol--92---New-Videos--deadlines-and-factory-updates-.html?soid=1101318906379&aid=lAXRjGa-Dq0#a5

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  • 1 month later...

I'm wondering about the decision taken to adopt an all-geared drivetrain for these, rather than one axle and con-rod driven.

 

I must admit to not being keen on the valve gear being merely "along for the ride" and wonder why this decision has been taken? I don't particularly like it on the DJ J94 and Kernow 02, but as inside cylindered locos it might not be so noticeable as on an outside cylindered loco like the Hudson.

 

I'd be interested to hear from Bill about the thought process behind this, and how the motion will be made to look like it's working and driving, rather than just being along for the ride? As a premium-priced model, I have to say I'm finding this a tad off-putting right now and I'm reconsidering my pre-orders. The "traditional" method has worked for Hornby, Bachmann etc for years, and works for those of us building steam locos from kits or scratch. Why "reinvent the chassis" now?

Meant to reply to this ages ago. Don't forget until a few years ago most Hornby locos were tender drive with the motion just along for the ride. If you compare the current running quality of Hornby and Bachmann steam to BLI or Athearn, they are still way behind. The geared drive train is vastly superior to having 1 powered axle and relying on the motion to distribute the tractive effort. 

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  • 2 months later...

I'm wondering about the decision taken to adopt an all-geared drivetrain for these, rather than one axle and con-rod driven.

 

I must admit to not being keen on the valve gear being merely "along for the ride" and wonder why this decision has been taken? I don't particularly like it on the DJ J94 and Kernow 02, but as inside cylindered locos it might not be so noticeable as on an outside cylindered loco like the Hudson.

 

I'd be interested to hear from Bill about the thought process behind this, and how the motion will be made to look like it's working and driving, rather than just being along for the ride? As a premium-priced model, I have to say I'm finding this a tad off-putting right now and I'm reconsidering my pre-orders. The "traditional" method has worked for Hornby, Bachmann etc for years, and works for those of us building steam locos from kits or scratch. Why "reinvent the chassis" now?

 

It's how Bill has designed it on Model Rail's 'J70' and it looks just fine. (CJL)

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  • 7 months later...
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Well, everybody can now judge for themselves, the Royal Hudson video has been posted:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alkOqQ1ngAM

kapukasing I had to look that place up, it’s quite a long way out there.. 500 miles from Ottawa..

 

Fantastic layout,I love it.

Hudson looks good, that number plate needs a bit of attention, the light bleeds and the firebox blackhead representation looked fully moulded, out but otherwise it’s a nice loco, indeed very nice.

I like the sound on it, the loco looks a bit of a monster in size

Edited by adb968008
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Kapuskasing used to be in the weather forecast, along with places like Rainy River and Rainy Lake  (anyone remember the rest?).  Sort of a Canadian answer to Dogger Fisher German Bight. I've never been quite that far north in Ontario -- at 50 North it's almost as far north as Land's End!

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Kapuskasing used to be in the weather forecast, along with places like Rainy River and Rainy Lake  (anyone remember the rest?).  Sort of a Canadian answer to Dogger Fisher German Bight. I've never been quite that far north in Ontario -- at 50 North it's almost as far north as Land's End!

 

David, my sister spent a year in Pickle Lake.  Which is the end of the summer road going north west...

 

She's spent a fair amount of time flying in and out of all the communities in NW Ontario, as a Critical Care Paramedic working for (at first Thunder Air), and now ORNGE.  

 

It used to be that the north shore (of Lake Huron) was referred to as "the near north".  I'd take north of Wawa (what's the sound of a dying goose?  Wawa !) to be the north in Ontario.  (& north of Timmins).  Generally, it's more an access issue than a geographical issue.  The scale of Ontario is huge- it's 6 hours from Winnipeg (MB) to Thunder Bay, 12 hours TB-Sudbury, 6 hours to Ottawa or Toronto, then 2 or 4 to Montreal by road.  Something like 26 hours to cross the province at 80-100 km/h.

 

James

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Today's North American newsletter from RapidoTrains sheds more than a little doubt on the future of the "Icons of Steam" program. (I'd link to it but there seems to be a bit of a lag between the email blast and linking it to their website.)

 

Jason articulates well (as always) my concerns on seeing the Icons Of Steam announcement.

  1.  Are there enough customers
  2. Who are willing to pay for these Canadian models at the price point that Rapido deserves

My other observation (not covered by Jason, was that even at full speed Rapido would take decades to implement the scope of the Icons of Steam announcement.

 

Jason makes a very important point about the relative profitability of steam locomotives compared with easier to tool diesel models. There's also a nice tip of the cap to the Stirling Single.

 

Personally I am very much looking forward to my Royal Hudson (click here if you'd like one) and I'm glad that RapidoTrains picked it first.

 

And please don't get me wrong, I'd like to see Rapido continue to make steam trains.

Edited by Ozexpatriate
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Do I detect Jason's sense of humour within the Rapido web design? This is what I got when I followed the quoted link:

 

 

"THE PAGE YOU ARE LOOKING FOR CANNOT BE FOUND.

 

It may have been moved, renamed, dropped down a catch basin, eaten, run over by a jellyfish, transmogrified, or - most likely - beamed to Phaester Osiris along a time corridor. If you were brought here by another part of our web site, please contact us to let us know of the broken link. If you were brought here by some other web site, go pester them instead.

 

RETURN TO MOTHERSHIP"

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Likely the result of when they put their new website in place a while ago, the current version can be found at https://www.rapidotrains.com/iocs-future-releases/

 

though it is no longer correct.  The newsletter says 2019 will now bring the regular Hudson's (H1a/b) as:

 

- much of the tooling is shared with the Royal Hudson, so its a (relatively) small incremental cost

 

- it will have 2816, which of course is the loco that CPR restored and ran on the mainline in the more recent past

 

- the hope that, once people actually see the loco in person (either through hobby shops, shows, or friends) interest in Canadian steam will increase.

 

It is possible that memories of the True Line Trains CNR loco and its troubles have scared people off.

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I'm wondering about the decision taken to adopt an all-geared drivetrain for these, rather than one axle and con-rod driven.

 

I must admit to not being keen on the valve gear being merely "along for the ride" and wonder why this decision has been taken? I don't particularly like it on the DJ J94 and Kernow 02, but as inside cylindered locos it might not be so noticeable as on an outside cylindered loco like the Hudson.

 

I'd be interested to hear from Bill about the thought process behind this, and how the motion will be made to look like it's working and driving, rather than just being along for the ride? As a premium-priced model, I have to say I'm finding this a tad off-putting right now and I'm reconsidering my pre-orders. The "traditional" method has worked for Hornby, Bachmann etc for years, and works for those of us building steam locos from kits or scratch. Why "reinvent the chassis" now?

 

The 'Hudson' model is quite a bit different from the traditional plastic-bodied, worm and gear to one axle, steam locos to which we've become accustomed. When I was in Markham last month I got to handle one. It is VERY heavy. The body is actually a diecasting. This is a big powerful locomotive and the drive system gives it the strength to pull big heavy trains. There seems to be suspicion surrounding every innovation that is made in this hobby. Isn't it time we sought and welcomed innovation, instead of threatening to cancel our orders when a manufacturer moves away from what we've become accustomed to? It will be a great pity if Icons of Steam gets dropped. The Prime Movers concept has already been abandoned and one of the reasons that Rapido moved into the UK market was because they needed a larger market than they could find at home. Fact is, the market for RTR model railways is shrinking due to natural wastage and there are also many more manufacturers of RTR chasing slices of a shrinking cake.We've seen a slowing in the rate of new releases from Hornby and Bachmann particularly. It will be a tough decision for a lot of manufacturers, whether to slow down the new releases and give the market a breather, or whether to strike while the iron is still hot and keep piling on the new releases to please a receptive but smaller market, with the risk of oversupply and margins which are too tight.(CJL)

Edited by dibber25
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