RMweb Premium OnTheBranchline Posted October 12, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12, 2015 Hey everyone, I am moving to an apartment which does not have enough space for my current tail-chaser GWR layout (12' by 4'). As near as I can figure, I can have an end to end GWR layout of roughly 11' to 12' by 1' to 1.5'. I have a few questions/concerns: 1) Is 11' to 12' by 1' to 1.5' enough space to make a useful end-to-end layout other than a GWR branchline terminus? 2) I am not sure what I would do with my tender engines (the majority of the tender engines being large 4-6-0 engines). I have quite a few tender engines but they would not get any sustained running on the end-to-end layout (including the new Hornby King which I plan to purchase when it comes out). I guess my main concern is that I've never really been into shunting (which an end to end layout mostly is) but I am willing to try after reading the "Shunting - is it all it's cracked up to be?" thread. Thank you in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Will you be re-using any of your existing layout as-is or breaking up to reclaim track etc.? 12' is barely enough for a shortened terminus to fiddle yard layout in 4mm, which I presume you are working in. Perhaps build an MPD/steam shed so that you can shunt your locos around but if you like watching the trains go by this will not satisfy. I guess a lot depends on whether you are basically a builder or operator - a subject discussed at some length in my thread that you quoted above. If building the layout is something that appeals then a lot can be done scenically in 12-18". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 [quote name="OnTheBranchline" post="2050807" timestamp="1444673012" I guess my main concern is that I've never really been into shunting (which an end to end layout mostly is) but I am willing to try after reading the "Shunting - is it all it's cracked up to be?" thread. Thank you in advance. There's a fun little iPhone app called TrackZ that's based on inglenook shunting. If you have a suitable device, try that. May help you answer that question! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev_Lewis Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 12' is barely enough for a shortened terminus to fiddle yard layout in 4mm, which I presume you are working in. I beg to differ. My old 4mm layout was only 8 and a half feet by 2 feet. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64671-seagry/It's could have been narrower and still had extra sidings, but I was trying to get an open look. You could get quite a lot of operational interest into 12 x 1.5 feet. However, I'm not going to suggest 4mm. Has the OP considered 7mm? Shunting is a lot more fun in the larger scale. Plus there's a lot more scope for detailing the layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 You could get something along the lines of a minories into 12', I'm pretty sure. Not sure how many carriages you'll be able to have on your trains, but if you want to run main line locos on trains a city terminus is probably your best bet in that kind of space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I beg to differ. My old 4mm layout was only 8 and a half feet by 2 feet. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64671-seagry/It's could have been narrower and still had extra sidings, but I was trying to get an open look. You could get quite a lot of operational interest into 12 x 1.5 feet. However, I'm not going to suggest 4mm. Has the OP considered 7mm? Shunting is a lot more fun in the larger scale. Plus there's a lot more scope for detailing the layout. Kevin, very nice, yes I have to admit that my own GWR terminus is on two 3 foot by 18" boards with a further 3 foot single track scenic section. The fiddle yard needs to be at least as long as your longest train as well.I also concur with the bigger scale but the OP has (presumably) 4mm stock.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold nickwood Posted October 12, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2015 You can build in plenty of operating interest into a 12' branch terminus. My layout (link below) keeps two operators busy for over 2 hours running the sequence at exhibitions. However Kings or indeed any 4-6-0 would look a bit silly on it. In your circumstances I would consider a steam shed with perhaps carriage sidings at the rear to display your rolling stock (I'm assuming that if you have a tail chaser it is predominately coaching stock). The key would be to operate it with a purpose, by that I mean moving the locos around for coaling, watering, cleaning etc and on and off shed to satisfy a fictional timetable and rostering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 OTB I think you can be reassured that many people have gained great satisfaction from layouts of the sort of size that you have in prospect. Have you read Rev Denny's books about his "Buckingham Branch"? JS Your neat layout put me in mind of Abbotsbury, but I wasn't aware that the Dorset extension of the Central Line had got that far.;-) K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 The other option is consider switching down to N Gauge. 12' would allow you a decent sized terminus, you could probably fit in something like a trimmed version of Penzance in that space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium OnTheBranchline Posted October 13, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2015 The other option is consider switching down to N Gauge. 12' would allow you a decent sized terminus, you could probably fit in something like a trimmed version of Penzance in that space. I am not switching to N Gauge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 JS Your neat layout put me in mind of Abbotsbury, but I wasn't aware that the Dorset extension of the Central Line had got that far.;-) K Hah, yes, actually the Bakerloo....although towed into the two rail section. This is the other end of the layout with added clouds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 ...am moving to an apartment which does not have enough space for my current tail-chaser GWR layout (12' by 4'). As near as I can figure, I can have an end to end GWR layout of roughly 11' to 12' by 1' to 1.5'... I would defer any final decision until you are actually in. There's nothing like being there and using your imagination to find a better solution within whatever space is available. The best I have ever seen on this front was a permanent layout in an apartment living room, with a removeable cassette based fiddle yard, that went into the bedroom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chimer Posted October 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2015 I would defer any final decision until you are actually in. There's nothing like being there and using your imagination to find a better solution within whatever space is available. The best I have ever seen on this front was a permanent layout in an apartment living room, with a removeable cassette based fiddle yard, that went into the bedroom. Yes, agreed. For instance, just a little extra width at one end would allow a (probably hidden) 90 degree (probably set-track) turn to a detachable fiddle yard which would leave you with 10 feet or so for your terminus and throat, allowing maybe 6' platforms and thus making the use of tender engines much less unlikely. Or widen at both ends and complete a roundy-roundy with narrow detachable boards. Of course, if you have to seek planning consent these ideas may be less viable Or ....... etc A shed-only layout is the other obvious answer, but although I am hugely impressed by the modelling involved in some of the examples seen on here, operationally it wouldn't float my boat if I couldn't see the engine that leaves the shed pass by with a train shortly afterwards. Good luck ...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted October 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2015 Well certainly 12' x 18" is enough to build quite a decent terminus to fiddleyard layout, either a country branch line or a small city terminus. But even the small city terminus is not going to allow you to run big engines. What about a parcels depot? For instance, York where the old YNMR terminus became a parcels depot when the current York station opened. It's compact like a Minories but parcels trains could be hauled by all types of locomotive. Speaking to your GW preference, you might manage something based on Plymouth Millbay. Kings arrived with part of the train detached at North Rd while the rest of the train proceeded to Cornwall behind a smaller Laira loco. But you would need that extra bit of removable fiddleyard/cassette as suggested above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Model a seaside branch terminus in the West Country (or Wales) on a Summer Saturday - plenty of excuse to run larger tender engines on through services from London. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campaman Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Thats my thinking as well, Kingswear or Swanage are examples, holiday/seaside trains got split so you ended up with a tender engine with only a few carriages at some of the final destinations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Thats my thinking as well, Kingswear or Swanage are examples, holiday/seaside trains got split so you ended up with a tender engine with only a few carriages at some of the final destinations.You might even be able to squeeze in a full sized turntable...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Model a seaside branch terminus in the West Country (or Wales) on a Summer Saturday - plenty of excuse to run larger tender engines on through services from London. The trouble is that you really need the length of platform to accommodate the number of coaches that justify a big express engine. I can think of examples of BLTs that would see holiday specials but not many with big locos on short trains. Specials to St Ives were normally hauled by a pair of 4500s and could run to 8 coaches. Trains to Newquay might merit a Castle but would have loads to match. The Southern with its trains made up of portions is a better bet for this sort of train sadly. No one would bat an eyelid at a Bulleid pacific on a 3-coach train (or even a single brake composite in some extreme cases) but the GWR was not quite the same. The best example I can think of involving big locos on short trains would be Kingwear where the through-portion of the express might include a King or Castle on a 4-coach train. If you are willing to do quite a bit of selective compression, stick to a limit of about 4 coaches and have a detachable fiddle yard, you might fit Kingswear into a 12' board. The station is curved near the throat which will help if you are having the fiddle yard at 90-degrees to the main board. Track plan of Kingswear in 1954 can be found here. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_05_2015/post-238-0-66571800-1432160803.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted October 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2015 The pre-rebuild Kingswear had much shorter platforms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 If only ...... You could depart from the GWR, you could get a distilled essence of Padstow (probably a form of fish oil) into that space. Not only could you have very short formation ACE, but the station is still there to go and look at - and then you could eat at one of Rick Stein's several hundred restaurants too! Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelling Martin Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 My layout is only 13 foot long which could take a tender engine and four coach train in my Minehead station plan although i have had to eliminate some bits e.g. the turntable, Good luck with it and hope you find a trackplan that suits your needs, Gary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted October 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2015 Looking at what's been said and having a think, I can see where you're coming from in turning down N gauge. I model in O guage, but if you've got a decent collection of stock and are happy with what you're doing, I don't think changing to O would be a good idea either. I'm inclined to the view Mr. Zomboid's idea looks best, that is revisit Minories. The original CJF plan was for a station 72" x 10", but you could go for slightly larger trains, a King plus four coaches would be about 52", a cassette fiddle yard say 54" leaves 90" for a station. Go for small inner city terminus type operation with a pilot engine to release incoming locos, rather than runaround facilities. It would split into three 48" boards with all the point work concentrated on the middle board over a length of say 36", just about manageable with short points, but nothing left behind the buffer stops. You fancy a King, get it and enjoy using it. Arrivals and departs would be just as good as watching it tail-chasing. CJF allowed a width of 10" for a three platform station. you could very nearly stick an independent inglenook sidings in behind to shuffle some wagons as a goods yard? Beyond that design the Summer Saturday idea by Pete McFarlane conjures up a great scene. Why not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 A GW terminus in an urban setting would make a change from all the picture postcard seaside or country termini. South Wales, West Midlands, The Wirral - lots of industrial areas served by the GW. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJ Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 What about the half station or 'Bitsa' station. A very good example is Ken Gibbons New Quay in 'Modelling the BR era'. Basically only the final half of so of the station is modelled using something like a footbridge or over bridge to disguise the exit. So your 4-6-0 brings in a train, but only the first two or three coaches, before running round - back to the fiddle yard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Combining what Messrs Kazmierczak and Northroader suggest, can I try to sell you a plan that I've been boiling for a year or so? There were multiple proposals for a railway to be built over the route of the Regent's Canal in London, forming a GWR-GER/LTSR link, but with a branch down into the City using the City Basin arm of the canal. GWR suburban services, onto the doorstep of the financial district. Maybe a daily "business train" headed by a "namer"? Dodgy track plan attached - the goods station is lifted from Vine Street (Met). And, an even dodgier copy of a c1905 London street map, with the line marked on it, photographed at the Museum of London. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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