The Bournemouth West Model Railway Group / Now known as The South Coast Model Railway Development Group / TSCMRDG

[Roger Sunderland]

Very interesting becasse and thank you for pointing this out. You should be aware that a number of our group are GWR fundamentalists. These things are there to appease them. (But will be removed!)

[Chris Knight]

Very interesting becasse and thank you for pointing this out. You should be aware that a number of our group are GWR fundamentalists. These things are there to appease them. (But will be removed!)

 

Kindly leave my fundament out of this bossman - and don't forget Gods Wonderful Railway took over responsibility for the S & D in later years. To paraphrase Bob Dylan

'The times could be a changing'  so  watch this space GWR rules OK !

[bike2steam]

Kindly leave my fundament out of this bossman - and don't forget Gods Wonderful Railway took over responsibility for the S & D in later years. To paraphrase Bob Dylan

'The times could be a changing'  so  watch this space GWR rules OK !

 

It seems by all accounts the Southern Region was glad to be rid of the responsibility after the boundary changes of 1958.

[Yankee]

 

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/0001-j-payne-30908.jpg

 

 

 

 

Get that thing out of here, any train will do.

Sent from my iPhone

[colin.divall]

I enjoyed the coverage of this excellent layout in BRM, but one minor "error" that I did note was the pick-up goods with an ex-GW Toad brake van. Southern guards considered the Toads to be dangerous (and quite rightly so in my opinion) and refused blank to work them. If one got on to the Southern by accident, it didn't get very far and had to be returned to the WR out of use. I suspect that Toads weren't common user and were confined to the WR and other ex-GW lines.

Hmm, never say (or imply) never! - that is definitely a Toad behind 34066 on a demolition train on the Sarum & Dorset Junction in May 1965 (p.73 of Nigel Bray’s history of the line).

 

But I am a bit worried by the standard BR express code on 92233, on the front cover of BRM.... or has this train not come off the Dorset?....

 

Colin

[Oldddudders]

But I am a bit worried by the standard BR express code on 92233, on the front cover of BRM.... or has this train not come off the Dorset?....

Colin

Did standard BR codes apply in Dorset? Route codes, surely?

[Dunsignalling]

Did standard BR codes apply in Dorset? Route codes, surely?

I haven't yet seen the photo mentioned, but inter-regional workings onto ex-LSWR metals via Reading and Basingstoke did (at least sometimes) retain the headcode they set out with, so lamps not discs. 

 

John

Edited November 14, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Ian J.]

The Salisbury & Dorset would have been run as standard codes I would have thought as it was a normal part of the LSWR/SR/BR(S). It was only the Somerset & Dorset that used different codes as I understand it.

[Oldddudders]

I must be missing something here. The Southern used headcodes to indicate routes, not the class of train. The code on the front of that 9F is Bournemouth West and Oxford.

[Roger Sunderland]

We are very particular about our lamp and disc codes.

 

To clarify. The 9F, on The Pines in the photo is carrying a standard BR express passenger lamp code. This is correct as the train originated in Manchester, travelled cross country to Bath and then down the S&D to Bournemouth West. At no time did it touch the Southern Region so no discs were ever used, nor did it travel via Oxford, except after Bournemouth West had closed in 1965.

Right up until closure of the S&D they also used their own lamp codes. They only had 2 of these, one for passenger trains and one for freight. You will also see trains running on the layout , that have travelled over this route sporting the S&D lamp codes. We have pictures of both BR and S&D lamp codes in use at Bournemouth West.

 

All trains originating on the Southern region, on the layout, have the correct disc codes which, as previously stated relate to the route of the train not the train type.

 

Hope this helps.

[bike2steam]

Sorry Roger but the Pines was re-routed away from the S&DJR( via Oxford) after the Summer 1962 timetable had finished.

[Denbridge]

We are very particular about our lamp and disc codes.

To clarify. The 9F, on The Pines in the photo is carrying a standard BR express passenger lamp code. This is correct as the train originated in Manchester, travelled cross country to Bath and then down the S&D to Bournemouth West. At no time did it touch the Southern Region so no discs were ever used, nor did it travel via Oxford, except after Bournemouth West had closed in 1965.

Right up until closure of the S&D they also used their own lamp codes. They only had 2 of these, one for passenger trains and one for freight. You will also see trains running on the layout , that have travelled over this route sporting the S&D lamp codes. We have pictures of both BR and S&D lamp codes in use at Bournemouth West.

All trains originating on the Southern region, on the layout, have the correct disc codes which, as previously stated relate to the route of the train not the train type.

Hope this helps.

the last Pines Express over the S&D was on 8th September 1962. Hauled by 92220 and driven by Peter Smith.

[Roger Sunderland]

Yep you are correct guys. As mentioned in the article, we seek to portray the.period 1959-1962, so I guess we just creep in on that one.

[bike2steam]

When you live in the area, and belong to a local railway club, where the local railway is THE holy grail,  there are details that stick like a real nerd, - and was fired by Aubrey Punter.

[Oldddudders]

When you live in the area, and belong to a local railway club, where the local railway is THE holy grail,  there are details that stick like a real nerd, - and was fired by Aubrey Punter.

Yes, but even for those of us who grew up several counties away - Surrey in my case - the Pines was an iconic train, far beyond its modest status when compared to Flying Scotsman, Cornish Riviera etc. Hopefully anyone reading this thread would enthuse about details being preserved and noted for posterity. Nerdy? Not in this company, I think.

[Roger Sunderland]

We were very fortunate to have Peter Smith at our very first planning meeting for the layout. If I recall correctly we all sat there, in awe while he reminisced about driving and firing trains into and out of Bournemouth West. He was invaluable in advising us on some of the working practices on the S&D. I do hope he can see the layout sometime and there will always be an open invitation to do so. His book " Mendips Enginemen" is well worth a read if you can get hold of a copy.

[Denbridge]

We were very fortunate to have Peter Smith at our very first planning meeting for the layout. If I recall correctly we all sat there, in awe while he reminisced about driving and firing trains into and out of Bournemouth West. He was invaluable in advising us on some of the working practices on the S&D. I do hope he can see the layout sometime and there will always be an open invitation to do so. His book " Mendips Enginemen" is well worth a read if you can get hold of a copy.

I was fortunate to have met both Peter and Donald a good few years back. Agree listening to their stories is something I will treasure

[colin.divall]

We are very particular about our lamp and disc codes.

To clarify. The 9F, on The Pines in the photo is carrying a standard BR express passenger lamp code.....Right up until closure of the S&D they also used their own lamp codes. They only had 2 of these, one for passenger trains and one for freight. You will also see trains running on the layout , that have travelled over this route sporting the S&D lamp codes. We have pictures of both BR and S&D lamp codes in use at Bournemouth West.

Well, mine was a tongue-in-cheek remark! A nice shot ( in Michael Welch’s Decline of Southern Steam) in colour of the same engine heading north through Broadstone with the Pines, complete with the BR standard headcode - although in this case, probably explained by the fact that the top bracket was in use for the headboard.

 

Aubrey Punter is great to talk to as well. Thanks to him I know it’s OK to run a rebuilt Merchant Navy as far as Wimborne without having to invoke Rule 1....

 

C

[BMacdermott]

Hello everyone

 

Firstly, it is great to see this lovely layout develop - superb!

 

I have just had a phone call with Peter Smith and mentioned some of the recent postings here. He asked me to say that he hasn't forgotten the group's kind 'open invitation' and will take up the offer sometime in 2019. (I hope to see the layout at a show myself one day!)

 

In respect of the headlamp codes (as distinct from SR route codes), and as Roger says, the S&D ones remained extant, even when the WR assumed responsibility. Peter says that some footplatemen did take it upon themselves to use the BR codes for a while, but the practice was soon stopped - and Peter recalls notes to that effect on the shed noticeboards.

 

The Pines - and others - could sometimes be seen with the BR express code but it was more usual that the S&D code was used. If the Pines headboard was used under the chimney, then the over the buffers code would need to be used. As far as I can tell, No.92233 was never used on the Pines on Summer Saturdays but has been used during the week, and Peter has even driven her on that duty.

 

Just a small note about 'the last Pines' - Peter actually drove the last Up Pines. The actual 'last last Pines' was the Down train on the same day.

 

Brian

[Roger Sunderland]

Fantastic Brian! And I look forward to seeing both you and Peter. We will be at Peterborough on 8/9 December but our next local show will be Wimborne next March.

The trains we run represent a typical weekday so I hope 92233 is ok. We opted out of a Summer Saturday as there was just too much going on but never say never - we may adapt the sequence in the future.

Take your point about the lamp codes. In fact all our other S&D services have the S&D lamp codes. We have a headboard for the Pines, not in the picture though, which is our "excuse" for the BR one.

[BMacdermott]

Hello Roger

 

Very many thanks for that kind reply. I will let Peter know. I’m guessing at present that Wimborne will be the more likely of the two venues.

 

Please don’t think your 92233 headlamp code is ‘wrong’ – it isn’t. It is simply ‘less usual’.

 

In fact, the study of headlamps, headlamp codes, headboards and train reporting numbers over the S&D is a subject in its own right. If you ever want to explore that – admittedly very fine detail – then I have some notes that may be useful. Like anything to do with the S&D, the more you look, the more you find!

 

A small story that came from a discussion about the Pines involved one of the train reporting numbers – 1O95. As you will all know, that is ‘One-Oh-Nine-Five’ (not ‘One-Zero-Nine-Five).

 

The subtlety of the typographical distinction between (capital letter) ‘Oh’ and (figure) ‘Zero’ was never explained to crews. Peter has told me that he would often say such as: “OK Donald, we’re booked on the ‘Ten-Ninety-five’ today”.

 

If you want ‘a fully prototypical’ 92233 on the Pines, then 31 July 1962 is a good day to pick. Ivo Peters was granted a footplate permit and rode on the Down Pines that day with Donald Beale and Peter Smith as the crew; accompanying was Loco Inspector, Lawrence Whitley. (See Plates 238 and 239 of Ivo’s book The S&D in the Sixties, Vol.3, 1960-1962.)

 

Back in 2013, we submitted a fairly detailed and reasoned ‘production suggestion’ to one of the companies that makes ‘model people’ for them to produce miniature versions of Donald, Peter and Ivo. Sadly, we had no reply!

 

Brian

Edited November 16, 2018 by BMacdermott

[Roger Sunderland]

That's most interesting Brian, thank you. The idea about the figures is a good one. If it wasn't them you approached, I wonder if Modelu would be interested?

 

On the subject of getting things prototypical do you know the carriage make up of S&D services from Bath and Bristol to Bournemouth West, again on a weekday? From what I can tell, it could be either LMS or Southern stock.

[BMacdermott]

Hello Roger

 

Thanks for this. It wasn't Modelu, but that's a good idea as production methods have moved on apace since our original. I'll speak with Mike and Peter.

 

With rolling stock on the S&D, it's almost easier to say what didn't run over the line! I jest slightly there, but there was plenty.

 

Leave it with me and I'll put some notes together for you - but may take me a few days.

 

Brian

[PaulRhB]

Well to get Peter photographed with Bournemouth West and Wimborne at the Wimborne show would be rather special

Link to the show here.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/137377-wimrail-2019-16-17th-march-2019-wimborne-dorset/

[BMacdermott]

Well to get Peter photographed with Bournemouth West and Wimborne at the Wimborne show would be rather special

 

I'm working on it!

 

Brian