Modelling Q Stock

[Strathwood]

Having looked at the resin kits for Q stock via Radley etc in the past, consideration has been made from time to time for an LT inspired layout. However the restrictions of size in my office mean six car trains are as long as they go. Which would look okay, certainly better than running three or four car formations. But this means if you want to run something realistic we are looking at three or four trains with differing formations of stock, maybe an F stock train too. That makes twenty four resin kits to build and detail, most likely due to the weight of the trains and the likely gradients which would be applied to the preferred track plan, we are looking at at least two power bogies per train. This means an awful long time modelling, okay for those who have lots of time, also lots of investment into the stock too.

 

Another thought crossed my mind upon a chat with Charlie from Street Level Models at Alexandra Palace a couple of years ago, having greatly admired his display model built from one Q23 (I think) card coach kit. This led to thoughts of weight of the stock being less of a problem with card kits also perhaps just the one powered bogie per six car rake might work, Also a considerable reduction in costs and potential build time I thought. This might be important for those of us who have not as much modelling time as we would like and would rather watch the trains go by and play!

 

Has anyone any experience with building these kits please? Also, any thoughts on using cheap secondhand RTR coaches to yield bogies, underframes, roof, interiors etc as part of a vast cut and shut excercise allowing the card kits and flush glazing to affixed to whats left of the shells once modified?

 

The overall length of the stock should be 51' 7" with 50' 2" body length, 34' 0" bogie centres, with one bogie on 7'10" centres whilts the other in each coach to be 7' 3".

 

Thoughts had extended towards the use of a large number of cheap Tri-ang short GWR clerestories or perhaps likewise cheap Tri-ang short Pullmans as donors. So there we have it, any thoughts advice, brickbats, photos or otherwise are welcome please?

 

The temptations for all of this pondering is as a result of the latest offering from Heljan, to run along with LT liveried panniers on pw trains, with back up from other steam locos taken from the South Eastern Finecast stable and just maybe an L45 from one of Charlie's CDC offerings.

 

Kevin

[Metr0Land]

I have a 4-car set Q23/Q38/Q31/Q27 running on a mix of bogies. These are all Little Bus Co resin kits which passed to Radley Models.  I've found the dreaded Lima Mk1 bogies (which are found on a lot of Lima items) to be ok, even with the pizza-cutter wheels, on Peco Code 100 track.  Side beams and weathering cover a multitude of sins.....
 
It's powered by a single Endo bogie (from Metromodels) which I've found to be way better than Tenshodo.

[SRman]

Like Metr0Land, I have several of the Radley resin kits, plus some older Harrow Model Shop / Radley white metal kits for CO/CP and F stocks. As an aside, I also have some resin A (Radley) and C (Little Bus Company) stocks to build.

I have built my LT tracks around six-car train lengths, although most of my trains are only five cars long at the moment. I do have some unbuilt kits to complete! My Q stock kits are running, with two Black Beetle motor bogies powering them, but as yet painted but not glazed or finished off.

In the past, I have built card models and they can be made to be fairly strong. For underframes, you could use any cheap models with separate underframes and cut-and-shut them to get the correct lengths. Any trusses and underframe equi[ment would be obsolete and would have to be removed. Replica and Dapol both have some separate BR underframes available. Card models will still need to be glazed ... that's the bit that slows me down, regardless of the materials used!! At least with card kits, they would be lighter in weight so you might be able to save a little money on the number of motored bogies used. 

Here's a YouTube video I uploaded two years ago. I'm sorry to say, I have done nothing to this train since that time (cries of "Shame! Shame!" from the gallery.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCF-N03wPFM

[Lord of Narnia]

I can't speak from experience about the card kits but I have quite a few of the Radley models kits and they are quite good. I also had some input into upgrading the Q stock kits. They are much improved from the LBC days with the correct underframe details etc.

 

Most of the Q stock kits are resin so quite light. The only metal parts are the bogies and the Q38 stock chassis and I would put the motors in the heaviest cars for adhesion.

 

For my Q stock I am planning to have two black beetles - extra cost but I need the reliability for my layout.

 

You can buy RTR kits from Radley Models but they come at a price. I personally love the kit building process and customisation of the models but I appreciate this is not everyone's cup of tea.

 

6 cars is my maximum too but many of the train lengths are ok with this. I am going to run 5 car CO/CP, 6 car P, 6 car T, 6 car Q, 6 car R, 6 car 1938ts, 4 car pre-1938ts, Met-Vik electric and 5 Dreadnoughts and 4 car F stock.

 

Good luck

[knitpick]

For what it's worth and from observation, CO/CP; Q and R stock normally ran as 6 car sets for most of the day.  District line services running Earls Court to Aldgate East via Charing Cross were strengthened to 8 cars for rush hour but were over long at certain stations resulting in doors being locked out.  District and [inner] Circle line trains via Edgware Road and High Street Kensington were limited to 6 cars.  Even C and D stock was 6 car sets.

 

I even recall standing on Parson's Green station mid afternoon, watching two cars arrive out the sidings and a six car train come up from Putney Bridge and attaching. 

 

So 6 car trains on the Underground is fine.  Anything longer might seem odd albeit that 7 car S stock seems now commonplace.

 

Also the West London line to Now Cross; from photos I've seen ran 4 car Q stock.  I can only confirm seeing 4 car A stock. 

 

Sigh - these people with space to run full length trains ;~)

[SRman]

Yes, the East London line tended to run four car trains of whatever stock was allocated at the time: Q stock, F stock, 1938 tube stock, and A stock., at least from the 1950s through to the '90s.

 

The over length trains you refer to did occur, and were one of the reasons for the differences between O and P stock, with O stock having guard's controls in the driving cabs, P stock having the controls at the trailing end of the passenger saloon, precisely to preclude the guard being unable to see what was happening when the cabs were projecting into tunnels. When the stocks were mixed for Circle Line service (or any others where the trains were over the platform lengths), the O stock cars were marshalled away from the outer ends of the trains wherever possible.

 

R stock was originally marshalled as six car trains made up of four car units and two car units, both types unable to run bi-directionally on their own (no cabs at the "inner" ends of the units). Eight car units for rush hours were made up by adding another two car unit. They were later reorganised as seven car trains with three car + two car + two car sets semi-permanently formed. The two car sets were always at the east end of the formations - easy to keep to as they were always District Line sets. Piers Connor published several books describing the various stocks in considerable detail.

 

Edit: I had this back to front on R stock details. Edited to fix this now.

[roythebus]

O stock was not used on the District until about 1971 when the decision to trim down train lengths to 6 or 7 cars was taken. DR crews were not trained on O stock until then, even though the stock was identical except the position of the guard's controls. the y could run together but didn't. 

 

There was some coupling of Q stock at Parsons Green and other places for pm peaks, and uncoupling in the mornings. "They" had to make sure the pm units were the right stock! 2 car units were always at the east end; Q stock did not have jumpers or air pipes at the west end!

 

I know a bit about these things as I was a guard at PG from 1970 to 1973!

[Lord of Narnia]

In addition 5 and 6 car trains were used on the East London Line. Initially 4 car trains M-M+M-M were used but these were found to be too powerful so 5 car trains M-T-M+M-M came in. 6 cars were not popular as they were too long for Wapping/Rotherhithe and reduced stabling capacity at New Cross depot.

 

On R stock there were two 7 car formations, one as stated DM-NDM-UNDM+UNDM-DM+UNDM-DM or DM-NDM-NDM(A)-NDM-UNDM+UNDM-DM.

 

This was because some 8 car formations had a position 2 car 232xx removed and added to a 6 car train. These created trains were two units and some with 3 units. You will note that some trains had 3 compressors and some 4. There was a surplus of 21 position 2 cars and these were scrapped in 1973/4.