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Northroader
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This year has been pretty quiet on the ebay adventures front, just as well after last year splashing out on the two big Alcos, the PA1 and the RSD5. So far just reduced value caboose and two gondolas. However a couple of weeks ago I was intrigued by “O gauge US loco - needs repair” set at a very competitive price. The picture with it was recognisable as a Red Caboose kit for a GP9, so I put in a bid, thinking there’s was still five days to run, and I would be outbid anyway, so not to worry. Next week I thought wonder what it went at? and found I’d got it at £44! It came very promptly, and very well packed. It was a made up GP9, from the Red Caboose folks kit which was discontinued some time back. I have a bit of knowledge of this, as our very own Jasond managed to get together a few superstructure kits when production stopped, and I’ve been faffing about with one of these for some time, having got it at the Winchester show about three years back (NEXT SATURDAY,FOLKS!) Most of the body had been put together, just the small details to go, and it looks like the builder lost interest having tried it on the track.

 

So try it on the track, there was a motor hum from inside, and one end bogie wheels turning round. Separate the top from the bottom, and see a nice big Pitman motor with drives to both bogies. The critical point I found was that the cross bearers forming the bogie pivot centres had been stuck to the chassis underdeck with some form of tube glue which hadn’t taken, so they were coming adrift. I cleaned the old glue off, and used a solvent which made a better bond for the join. The motor shaft had pinholes drilled at each end, so I drilled out the shaft coupling collar and stuck a bit of brass rod in for a pin. The motor cradle was a very tight fit when the superstructure went on the chassis, as the bonnet sides bowed in slightly. There were holes for screws in the cradle, so it was fixed down firmly to the underdeck with some 8ba screws and nuts. The motor could still turn a bit in the cradle, so it’s taped up for now. The feed wires also needed careful routing because of the cradle sides being squeezed. It s now back together with all wheels turning, but not before I managed to shed one of the Delrin drive chains from the cardan shaft down to the bogie. I hope it don’t make a habit of doing this, they are a cow to put back, aren’t they? Then it gained a pair of Kadee 801s, which also function to retain the top to the bottom. At slow speeds it’s jerky and noisy, probably the chain drive, perhaps this will go with some running. Still, I’m quite pleased with it, and feel I’ve got a bargain. You’ll see that it still needs more doing to it, so work in hand. Armed with the knowledge I’d gained I dug out my other Red Caboose Geep kit, which is just the superstructure, and had a good session this afternoon with the donor chassis from an Atlas F9. For a line like Englefield Geeps are ideal.

Edited by Northroader
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FYI - if you need parts for the Red Caboose drive (or even a completely new drive) you can get them from P&D hobbies.  Hold on to your wallet, as they ain't cheap.

https://pdhobbyshop.com/show_products.php?category=Trains&sub_category=%26quot%3BO%26quot%3B%20Scale%202%20Rail&sub_sub_category=Drive%20Components&manufacturer=P%26amp%3BD%20Weaver

I have two of the "complete power kits" with brass trucks.  The trucks are gorgeous, and waiting for the two body shell kits I have to make their way to the top of the pile.  (one will be backdated to a GP-7, Boston & Maine maroon and gold.  the other will be B&M as-delivered "McGinnis Bluebird" paint scheme.)

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Thanks for the information, Mike, I started to drool over that lovely brass, then spotted the price. (Ouch!) Still, worth knowing what there is lying about out there, as I need to do a conversion on a Lionel switcher. I’m using the old Atlas F9 drive, which is more affordable, and a good runner, it’s just getting the truck dummy side frames to stay on! I’m having a blitz producing the two Geeps in parallel. The one in the picture is what you see is what you get, the outstanding bits and pieces in the kit weren’t with it. The other kit does have a full set of detail parts, although I don’t think I’ll be doing the smallest fiddly items. Ive also been messing round changing it from a GP9 to a GP7, cutting the panels with louvres out of the doors and switching them about, with a bit of filler, also filling in the skirt side holes. Then I fancy it as a “torpedo boat”, so the new loco is getting the underframe tank and air reservoir out of the kit, and I’m making a bigger fuel tank and small top air reservoirs for the other. The one thing I’m glad are missing are the grab irons, having done one end of the old kit I found the plastic ones very fiddly and fragile, I’ll much prefer doing them with brass rod. I’ll have to do some pictures once I’ve got a bit further. Good luck with your build, I think the as built paint scheme really good looking — McGinnis, argh!

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  • 3 weeks later...
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Next instalment of the Geep epic, following a slack period for the half term holidays with the granddaughters. Firstly the Red Caboose kit I got from ebay for a GP9. The running wasn’t good, so I put it on my running in rig, which is just a wood cradle where I can block up under the ends, and the wheels dangle enough to contact some springy brass strip. Trying it out there I decided that the problem was with one end drive, so disconnected that end, and found that the other end was running very well. Removing the bogie and trying the drive shaft between thumb and finger you could feel that the Delrin drive chain was too tight. I got some spare bits, and put two links in, which proved too loose, riding off one of the drive sprockets. Remove a link, and I had a “Goldilocks” moment, as the bogie was running as good as the other end. I’m glibly saying put Delrin chain links in and out, was there ever such a fiddly job to try your patience? Anyhow, I’d now got a runner. The other job was to fit fuel tank and compressed air bottles underneath. These hadn’t come with my purchase, I took them off my other kit, adding some squashed up pieces of copper water pipe inside the tank for ballast. They line up with the motor cradle holes, so I drilled through and put some 6BA screws up from underneath which happened to be the right length. The air tanks on the underframe go the opposite end to the cab on the superstructure, by the way

 

I’ve had another of these kits for some time, but superstructure only, not chassis with drive and bogies. This was created by Jasond when doing Quince Valley from left over parts when Red Caboose stopped production. I picked it up from another dealer some time back, and just been messing around with changing it from a GP9 to a GP7. In the prototype the main difference is the same as a F9 to a F7, in that the diesel unit was higher power rating of 1750hp to 1500hp for the 9’s, achieved by higher engine revs on full power. On a model it’s just details around the louvres. You’ll see where I’ve cut out some side panels with louvres from the hood doors, replacing with plain white plastikard, and then placing in holes, (marked out with yellow corners) some more louvres are needed below the cabside, and I’ve done this with microstrip, not looking so good, hope the paint covers it up. Then the slots in the skirts need filling. It needed a drive to go in the chassis subframe, which does come with the kit. This comes from a donor Atlas F9, fortunately quite common second hand and cheap. Motor and bogies go straight into the subframe, but the F9 bogie centres are 30’, and GP7/9 centres are 31’,and this shows in the intermediate drive shafts, one needing to be lengthened by a scale foot. It’s quite a simple job to fashion one up from scrap brass bits. Comparing the running of the two Geeps, the Atlas drive is done by a gear train to the bogies from the drive shaft, rather than the Delrin chain of the ‘pure’ Red Caboose kit, and this is smoother and more responsive, the chain drive tending to “churn”. Back to detailing the loco, the other thing I wanted was a boiler fitted one, capable of passenger workings. Below decks a much larger tank is fitted for fuel and also a section for water. I made this up from nickel silver sheet, with a bracket each end to bolt to the subframe, and also support it as I’d reduced the depth of the vertical ribs to clear the ballast weight fitted inside the tank, which was the nicely machined steel job from the Atlas F9. Another dummy filler has to be made on the skirt each side. On top of the short nose dummy mushroom air vent and boiler stack are needed, I trimmed these from the F9. Lastly as the air cylinders have been displaced from underneath by the boiler water tank, they went up on top of the hood, and their appearance gave these locos the nickname “torpedo boats” Some quarter inch plastic tube bunged up with milliput at the ends represented these, with brass rod for the air pipes.

 

There are now two Geeps, which are runners, roughed out, the operative word being rough. I can now go on with small details such as steps and grab irons. I’m leaving the platform handrails and glazing until after painting them.

Edited by Northroader
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They look like a couple of modern-day Short Line ex-Leasers just as they are!!! :D

 

Interesting comment about the Delrin-vs-Atlas drives. I wasn't too impressed with the similar Weaver chain drive on 12v DC, but fitting a DCC decoder really did smooth out it's performance - when the Soundtrax Tsunami behaves itself, which is another story  :banghead:  and funds allowing, one day I'll replace it with a Loksound L :yes:

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Checking out that post, I realised I’d forgotten another job. If you’re using an old Atlas F9 as donor, more often than not some of the dummy bogie side frames have got detached. Normally they clip over a bracket placed at midpoint, but the snag is the bracket is also used to locate the phosphor bronze pickup strips, which seriously weakens the bracket, the more so when a hot soldering iron is applied to attach the wire from the pickup. In my case one bogie needed both side frames to be remounted. I did this by building up plastic blocks at each end of the bogie, then drilling through these from the sides. The pickups are araldited in place and clearance checked around the old bracket. Brass rods go through the holes and the dummy frames mounted on these, secured by a 12BA washer soldered on each end. The other Atlas ailment is some of the exposed brake cylinders get knocked off the corners of the bogies. Courtesy of Jasond I’ve now got the right number remounted and drilled and pinned as needs be.

Edited by Northroader
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I’ve had another of these kits for some time, but superstructure only, not chassis with drive and bogies. This was created by Jasond when doing Quince Valley from left over parts when Red Caboose stopped production. I picked it up from another dealer some time back, and just been messing around with changing it from a GP9 to a GP7. In the prototype the main difference is the same as a F9 to a F7, in that the diesel unit was higher power rating of 1750hp to 1500hp for the 9’s, achieved by higher engine revs on full power. On a model it’s just details around the louvres. You’ll see where I’ve cut out some side panels with louvres from the hood doors, replacing with plain white plastikard, and then placing in holes, (marked out with yellow corners) some more louvres are needed below the cabside, and I’ve done this with microstrip, not looking so good, hope the paint covers it up.

If you're not happy with your louvers, you might consider getting some 3D louver decals.

 

http://www.archertransfers.com/AR88055.html

 

I've used Archer rivet decals on a project, and they look pretty good once on.  I'm planning on using these for my GP backdate project.

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What a nice idea to make a Torpedo Tubes GP-9!!!!!!!

 

I have a GP-9 from Red Caboose (from ebay USA) with a nice drive. I don't know if the shaft powering system is from Roco or else.

 

post-27876-0-65628300-1509384512_thumb.jpg

 

...and several Roco F9. I like their "old" drive. They run very well.

 

I have the same problem with the Blomberg trucks side which are broken on several trucks.

 

I stay tuned to see the result of this Torpedo engine.

 

;)

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Thanks for the link for the Archer louvres, Mike. I’ve heard about rivets, but stick on louvres sounds useful, as I’m not happy with my microstrip attempts. Spoil the ship for a ha’porth of tar and all that. Must try for those, and get some rivets at the same time, as I’m looking at doing a heavyweight coach, and it’s the rows of rivets that are putting me off.

Jacky, the GP in your picture looks very much like the old Austrian works with gear train drive, so it should be a good runner. The difference with mine is I’ve just got the bare bones electrically, yours has the extra wiring for lighting, or is it some of this new fangled DCC stuff? My Delrin drives will have to soldier on without such high- tech aid, Jordan!

Thanks for your interest and helpful comments, folks.

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There's always a smart-alec - extending the F9 drive by 1/4" means elongating those 2 plastic drive shafts.  Brass? Brass? I just cut 'em in half and stuffed them in pieces of 1/4"(??) Plastruct square tube I found somewhere.  Aaaah - early days - before everything became a challenge.  For some reason Red Caboose ran out of Atlas/Roco F9 lookalike drives before the body parts were sold off en masse.  Incidentally, I believe the Red Caboose drives had steel wheels rather than the nickel plated whitemetal Roco wheels.  Anyway, when the RC bodies went on sale at Des Plaines, P&D, Weaver parts were supplied.  Des Plaines even offer a brass sub-chassis for reinforcing the plastic bodyshell. and, ...er, adding weight!

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You’re telling me this just for the fun of getting me running round the loft checking wheels. When the ebay Red Caboose kit came I did give the wheels a rub with emery paper here and there, so yes, they are steel. TBH, I never gave the matter much thought, but the old Atlas ones do look as if they could be plated. Still, the amount of running they get I’m not going to wear through to the diecast.

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Thanks for the link for the Archer louvres, Mike. I’ve heard about rivets, but stick on louvres sounds useful, as I’m not happy with my microstrip attempts. Spoil the ship for a ha’porth of tar and all that. Must try for those, and get some rivets at the same time, as I’m looking at doing a heavyweight coach, and it’s the rows of rivets that are putting me off.

Jacky, the GP in your picture looks very much like the old Austrian works with gear train drive, so it should be a good runner. The difference with mine is I’ve just got the bare bones electrically, yours has the extra wiring for lighting, or is it some of this new fangled DCC stuff? My Delrin drives will have to soldier on without such high- tech aid, Jordan!

Thanks for your interest and helpful comments, folks.

 

Yes, my GP9 chassis looks like an old Roco one. The wheels are fine and blackened (steel). Mine haven't DCC. Only diodes for the lighting of the number boards, the ends and the corner lights. The motor is a Pitmann.

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Yes, my GP9 chassis looks like an old Roco one. The wheels are fine and blackened (steel). Mine haven't DCC. Only diodes for the lighting of the number boards, the ends and the corner lights. The motor is a Pitmann.

The innards of my Red Caboose GP9 look exactly the same; Atlas/Roco drive towers & trucks, big Pittman motor, twin flywheels & the lighting board. I think the lights may be 1.5v or something, as they're quite bright almost from starting off, unlike 12v bulbs which grow brighter with higher speed.

My GP9 is actually still analogue, & my last American loco awaiting DCC conversion. It's been waiting a few years, now. :( :blush:

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  • 4 weeks later...
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The last tuthree weeks I’ve left the Geeps alone, and been looking at getting a railway into operational shape. For most of this year I’ve been smitten with the idea of replacing the main fiddle yard with another depot, starting with squaring up the old depot layout. I don’t go to that many model shows, it’s pretty well all gauge 0 based, Bristol GOG in January, the ALSRM Reading do about April, Telford GOG is September, and the Winchester GOG Am & Con in October. At Winchester this year they didn’t have a standard gauge American layout, but as I was looking round, I was thinking “what am I doing?, what should I be doing?” The answer I was getting back in my subconscious was a need to be more compact and simplify. I wouldn’t get this by using a two depots scheme, so I’ve gone back to a depot and fiddle yard.

The new central board forms the nucleus, it’s 48” x 19.5” (1220mm x 495mm) tapering down a bit on the width. I’ve got two tracks passing through representing a main line and a passing loop/ siding. These are laid out on a reverse curve, as being more interesting than straight, and fulfilling the no no of not being parallel with the baseboard front. There’s a siding / spur to an industry at the front. Both lines end in cassettes, long on the left, short on the right, so I can do shunting moves off the cassettes. I can have two trains meeting, reverse and reform, and switch cars into the industry, very basic and simple. The tracks are widely spaced, to give clearance for the cassettes, and to avoid sideswipes for coaching stock on the curves. This is now roughed out, with buildings and backscene replaced, so it looks like Englefield, even with a different layout.post-26540-0-86836800-1511554851_thumb.jpegpost-26540-0-97084800-1511554890_thumb.jpegpost-26540-0-91182600-1511554926_thumb.jpeg

The short cassette end is also ready, with cassette length of 20.5” (520mm) you’ll see some Beeps, Geeps and a PA parked around and being worked on.

post-26540-0-81559300-1511555490_thumb.jpeg

It’s all juiced up as far as it goes, so now I’m turning to the board for the long cassette end, which is smaller and lighter than the old cut down door.

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Jacky put a shot of real life track on his Iowa Central thread recently, which I’ve pinched for here:post-26540-0-94996400-1511628575.jpeg

What caught my attention was the weathering of the track. I’ve been painting my sleepers with Humbrol Matt chocolate, which gives a fair representation of newly creosoted wood, but the ones in Jackys picture are much lighter colour, so for this job I’ve mixed in a lot of light grey in with the chocolate. Then the rails have been getting Humbrol rust, this time I’ve mixed some matt orange in with the rust, to lighten their colour:

post-26540-0-21330500-1511629050_thumb.jpeg

I can’t match Jacks craftsmanship in track laying, but I have had a lot of inspiration from Hilda, who has a fascinating barefoot technique for checking track alignment, I could watch her all day:

 

post-26540-0-82476800-1511629307.jpegpost-26540-0-59351100-1511630060.jpeg

Edited by Northroader
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The backscene has survived the various chop and changes better than the rest, I’d say. There’s a curved hardboard support on battens behind it, then the scene is painted on cartridge paper, cut off a roll from an art shop. I use acrylic (p.v.a.) paint, which is nice, as you do washes like watercolour, and if you don’t like how it’s going, you can do overpaints thickly, like oil painting, and it also dries quickly. Some of the buildings have been done separately, cut out and stuck on, just to get a better composition, and there’s also patches with trees where I’ve done trimming for the exit holes and these have changed. The right hand corner is like a patchwork quilt if you get close. It’s just clipped on to the support and tucked down behind the board to keep in place.

I always try to do a backscene, as it fills in the space behind the line and gives you a feel of where it’s supposed to be. Anyhow glad you like it.

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Yes, that's right: the backdrop looks beautiful and gives a nice atmosphere to the layout.

 

The track looks nice! The colour is realistic. That's help me for my track ;)

That's not easy to find the good and realistic colour.

 

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Yes, that's right: the backdrop looks beautiful and gives a nice atmosphere to the layout.

 

The track looks nice! The colour is realistic. That's help me for my track ;)

That's not easy to find the good and realistic colour.

Jacky,

 

As you are using wood for your ties, and not plastic, you should be thinking of staining rather than painting. You can still use paint, but it needs to be well thinned, as you have the benefit of natural grain, and you can get this to show through.

 

On a layout which was abandoned any years ago due to an unfortunate error in the baseboard construction which only became apparent when I started to lay the rails, I had great success using Humbrol “gunmetal” paint thinned to about 10% paint. I soaked the ties beforehand, but it should work applied as a wash, perhaps in more than one coat: you can also apply a coat of thinned down chocolate yo get a hint of brown, if you wish. If you apply thinned metalcote gunmetal as the final wash, you will get a hint of the silvery sheen typical of weathered creosoted timber so typical of ties that have been out in the elements for a few decades. For a darker colour, maybe newer track, the “tarmac” is a good base for the initial wash. Paint the rail as you would otherwise do. If using enamels, to this later, if acrylics, then do this sooner. I prefer the slower drying times of enamels for thus. Others may also use inks and alcohol. Whatever works for you, if it gives you a good result: the important thing is to adopt and and adapt the technique and materials to suit yourself,

 

Suggest you have a trial on two or three ties away from the layout. Allow time for the washes to dry before applying another coat.

 

It is possible to use washes to paint styrene to look like wood, but it requires a few extra stages. If there is some texture to the surface, it is a lot easier as paint will naturally accumulate in any dips, so it is worth dragging some coarse grit abrasive paper along the supposed grain: not much is required, no need for saw blades or anything. Then apply white primer, followed by a diluted wash of cream (to get a good base colour) and a very thin one of red oxide or something similar (adds some “warmth” to the base). Then follow on as above. I haven’t used this technique on track, but it works well on wagon interiors:

 

post-32558-0-62080800-1511705260.jpeg

 

Hope that helps.

Edited by Regularity
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  • 2 weeks later...
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Well, I’ve been pushing on with the rebuild, and got the main fiddle yard finished. This is smaller and lighter than the old cut down door I was using, so now all the baseboards are new structures over the last four months. This finishes the rebuild to the extent that I can operate trains over the full length, but the main outstanding infrastructure work is paint the fascia strips, (I like a nice neutral green for this), and also rebuild the dexion base its sitting on, much more involved as storage shelves need moving. Here’s two pictures of the whole stretch from each end, also a rough dimensioned plan.

You’ll see it’s now gone extremely basic, not to everyone’s taste, I’m sure, but I can run some trains, reform and do a bit of shunting, which will do me. In any case, I’m getting to an age where I don’t want to be chopping and changing all the time. Next jobs on the line are ballast and groundtex round the depot, and do some scenic blending, some semi flat on the open space right of the depot, and trees in the corners, then a bit more detailing. There’s three items of rolling stock to complete before I feel I’ve got a representative fleet for the CNR for starts, so still a bit to do.

Edited by Northroader
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You’ll see it’s now gone extremely basic, not to everyone’s taste, I’m sure, but....

... but... turnouts/switches/points (call them what we will) take up a lot of space, and sometimes a greater sense of space is gained if we can do without them, especially on a smaller layout. I like the new 'look' - the siding/passing loop could actually now be as long as they tend to be on that side of The Pond; we just can't see the ends - much like in real life if the average photo taken by any Depot building is anything to go by!!! :yes: :good:

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I'm absolutely astonished, nay, astounded - in a good way - to see the layout - from the photos posted previously I was expecting a HUGE railway-room filler like some we see in US mags , and even some of the UK publications.  Very well done indeed - the proof that a room-filler is NOT needed to have a great layout that you can have fun with.  MR< take note!

 

EDITED to add :-  When I looked at the design drawing and the photos, I initially read it as "4 boards each side" and was thinking ""Another 4 x 48" boards and 4 x21" boards - by heck , he's got lots of room!  I wonder where the other boards are?" Then I looked a second time and realised that the pictures showed the complete layout - I really am impressed

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