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Not for Peter, Pete's Workbench


N15class
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I usually put the beam pivot as near centre as the position of the trailing bogie wheel will allow, definitely not springs as well - one or the other system only.

Some photos of my 7mm H15

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Drive is on the fixed trailing axle, driving axle runs in swinging arms pivoted near the trailing axle. These arms are 1/16" brass, this axle is lightly sprung with p/b wire.

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This shows the beams between the leading axle and the bogie, again 1/16" brass

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Same view with the bogie removed, this loco is now 19 years old and there is no significant wear on any of the bearing surfaces, no bushes in the beams, the axles run in plain holes. The frames are drilled with a larger hole, this allows enough up and down movement, construction procedure was to make the coupling rods first, then use them to jig drill the frames and beams. The top of the bogie stretcher has two rubbing plates fitted, either side of the slot for the pin. The bogie axles are running in holes in the frames (.025" steel), again with no significant wear.

This of course is not full compensation, there are too many fixed points with a rigid driving axle, but it does work well in practice.

Thanks for this. It is as per Sharmans thoughts. I really want all wheels mobile. Which is why I thought side beams on the rear two and a central one at the front with bogie pin at one end. For me the this moves the point of the triangle forward of the front driver but not to the bogie.

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Mmm, Pete,

Not sure about the front beam, with a sprung pin, at all.

How about a fixed pin, upon which the bogie can rock, roll & twist, and a beam that has a pair of fingers at the front, perhaps pressing on a washer that sits on top of the bogie? The other end can sit in the middle of the axle, or as Michael suggested, it could be a double beam, I guess a bit like two halves of a wishbone in plan view.

Regarding position of the pivot, I doubt it is very important, as you will be able to add enough weight to get the traction you want, so I'd aim for somewhere in the middle. I suppose there might be other gubbins that might impact that decision.

HTH

Simon

Hi Simon

Better put correct the thoughts on bogie spring. It is not going to be used although I may use the ready made pin. I left it on cos knowing my luck I would change my mind and then have a pivot with no spring.

I am not one of these that like stuffing locos full of lead. Hense why I like to have all wheels on the deck with less weight on the carrying wheels. Whether this approach is any better who knows, but for me it works. I think I will move the pivots a couple of millimetres closer to the outer drivers just to unload the bogie slightly.

Edited by N15class
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I am getting close to putting the frames together. Ace frame spacers are pretty poor things so I made some new ones. Which are also wider so I do not need to add a million washers to stop the side play. 

 

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I also cut out the leading axle so that I can fit a pair of Slaters etched horn guides. The kit also has the cylinders level where in actual fact they are at 1 in 24. I have made a start on adjusting the frames so they will sit correctly. Also at the same time I drilled the new brake hanger holes. The compensation beams have been finished ready for assembly. I have even drilled a 0.7mm pilot holes for the pivots. Just before leaving the bench I tried a wheel and axle in the frames against the footplate. It seems we have a problem Houston. I need to check it out tomorrow, but it seems the frames either sit a millimetre or so too high. Or the axle holes are. I am hoping it is the frames as I can pack the footplate up a little. I must get rid of that etched spring on the driving wheel and make something that look like it may actually do something.

 

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I also paired up the coupling and connecting rods. Just need to fit the pivot in the knuckle. These are not bad at all. They look fairly light but are also quite rigid.

 

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Progress was not as good as I had hoped for, I think once I start putting the frames together bits that are puzzling me at the moment will become clear. Especially the mounting of the cylinders and motion bracket, which in the kit is a strange thing that has no support for the lower slide bar( these need beefing up from one layer), and I am not sure whether there is for the top bar. I also think I have the solution to the tender bogies too.

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Hi Pete

Following this with interest. If you have not seen it have a look at my blog starting from page 1.  There are some close ups of the crosshead slide supports.

Kind regards

Sandy

Hi Sandy

I will have a look. Years ago I took loads of pictures of the Maunsell one which was at East Somerset railway. I never got close enough to the one on the Bluebell.

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Another not so good day but I am now putting things together again.

 

I have got the main frames tacked together with three new spacers, There is the fire box front to be fitted once the rear side beams are in place. There will also be one for the bogie but again I want to fit the beam and bogie and get the set up right first.

 

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I also have got the basics of the bogie done. There is still a lot to do with it as there is a lot of detail to add to the outside. It will end up another 9 plus millimeters wider. It has simple three point compensation. I still need to sort out the side control. 

 

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I am looking forward to getting the frames up and running. to see if all my plans come together.

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Hi Pete

 

looking like it's coming together just fine.

 

I know it's "right" but is it actually "worthwhile" compensating a bogie?  (I'm 110% in favour of compensating drivers)

 

Say it has 7' wheelbase (a guess...) that's more or less 50mm.  The flange depth is something over 1mm, so you'd have to have a track that twisted 1.8 degrees in 50mm (or performed a complete barrel roll in 10m) to get a derailment, and of course, traction is irrelevant.

 

This level of twist sounds like improbably bad tracklaying (or a funfair) to my mind

 

And I see you have arranged the rear axle to rock.  Does it matter which?

 

My King kit came with a compensated bogie, the Castle kit did not.  I can't really see a difference in performance.  Wondering, just for the sake of wondering :)

 

best

Simon

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Hi Pete

 

looking like it's coming together just fine.

 

I know it's "right" but is it actually "worthwhile" compensating a bogie?  (I'm 110% in favour of compensating drivers)

 

Say it has 7' wheelbase (a guess...) that's more or less 50mm.  The flange depth is something over 1mm, so you'd have to have a track that twisted 1.8 degrees in 50mm (or performed a complete barrel roll in 10m) to get a derailment, and of course, traction is irrelevant.

 

This level of twist sounds like improbably bad tracklaying (or a funfair) to my mind

 

And I see you have arranged the rear axle to rock.  Does it matter which?

 

My King kit came with a compensated bogie, the Castle kit did not.  I can't really see a difference in performance.  Wondering, just for the sake of wondering :)

 

best

Simon

Simon

Thanks

The bogie probably does not need compensating, but I feel for the little effort involved it just adds a little to getting less pitching. I know it is only fractions of millimeters. I don't think it matters which axle is done I sure there are those that know better. But I did the rear one to try and hide the gubbins to make it rock.

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Not much done since last update. But there has been progress.

 

I have finished? The bogie, most of the parts were in the kit. the only cosmetic extras are the cast springs, some wire and 4 nuts. The etched spring that was part of the compensation beam was removed and replaced bt a whitemetal cast tender spring mounted upside down with the turned around too. The bearing under the spring was in the kit but I put a length of bar between the front and back pieces to give it some depth. The front and rear stretcher bars were etchings in the kit so I changed them for 1mm wire. The front one has been detailed with nuts, the rear I may add the nuts to if it needs when fitted. The slot for mounting has been made, I have given about 1.5mm each side of centre. Hopefully enough. I still need to make s spring block and guide for it. 

 

 

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I may add something to cover the bearings on the outside of the frames, and try and make look as though they are square. I might see if I can cast something basic in whitemetal. You can see looking at the pictures it is lacking something behind the front wheels at least. I have also braced the compensation pivot. Looking at the pictures I think the guard irons are a bit short.

 

 

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Now we need to get the wheels on the mainframes, so I can mount the bogie pivot. Also I want to get the tender bogies to a similar state, to start checking clearances.

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After taking the frames apart because they were not sitting vertically. I finally have it sitting on all ten wheels.

 

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This is the beam that goes between the centre of the front driver and the bogie pivot.

 

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I have the beams in place here. The front one will need something fixed between the frames to stop it dropping down each time the loco is lifted. This may be a spacer above the bogie as there would normally be or something over the beam at the front drivers.  The rear beams I have done differently to my normal way. It is fixed and I have also put the rear bushes in from the outside and the centre ones from inside. This was done for side play on the centre drivers. I thought that with the slight springing of the beams I do not need to add washers to stop the excess slop and it will actually give more side ways movement. You can see in the picture how far the will be able to deflect. At the moment it seems to be working ok. I have noticed that the bogie pin is slanted, I will check that later and rectify if needed, I don't think it is the camera in this case.

 

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I rested the footplate on to check the fit. It is as I thought earlier about a millimeter to low. easier to cure than if it was the other way around. Besides that it seemed to be fine. You may of noticed the front of the frames have been cut off. This is due to poor design and not allowing for the flat part below the smoke box.

 

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I had to take the frames apart again and re assemble. All now nicely square.I think I have been thinking of other things while making these. I made a start on the cylinders, but no photos as it all still looks like the previous post.

 

On with the tender bogies. William's tab and slots are not up to the mark, and really would of been better without them.

 

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I got the basic idea from the Bulldog I have just built. From the parts supplied I added a few and made an inner frame to fit the wheels etc in. It has all worked out very well. Istill need to sort the brakes and pull rods.

 

In need of cleaning up. The bush holes were a little tricky to stop them breaking out into an unusable mess.

 

 

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The outside rfames assembled with the mounting brackets added to the transoms.

 

 

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The two parts fixed together. It is now posible to get at the wheels. You will notice that I have not added three point to the bogies, the movement will come in the mountings later one.

 

 

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The mounting plates for the frames is tabed into the front to rear frame members, but there cross membersare full height so needed filing down tolet the plates sit flush. I am pleased again as the footplate sits a millimeter or so low, which gives me opportunity to get the ride height and bogie pivots done nicely.

 

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I will continue with these and get the brakes done before going back to the loco. For all the niggly faults I am actually enjoying the build. Lets hope this continues as it turns into doing the bodies,

Edited by N15class
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Now onto the bogie brakes.

 

The instructions say hang them from wires. Now here comes the rub, there is a hole for the rear wheel brakes on the outer frame, but no bracket to support the other side of each hanger. I have used a tube with a wire through to support the rear brakes for now, I think I may need to make the brackets as the tube is rather visible. I had to mark out and drill the inner frames for the front brakes. I had to make up the cross ties as there are none for the tender and the brake rigging needs them.

You can see in the photos how much work will be neededbecause of the poor fitting slot and tabs, especially where they are in amoungst rivets.

 

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Next job for the brakes is the cylinder and brake lever mounts at the front. This again was not in the kit but to my mind very is very prominent, so really needs to be there.

 

 

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I can now make the rest of the linkage and levers for the brakes. It will not be long befor the body of the tender can be started. I said in an earlier post that I had forgotten how large these tenders were. For fun I thought it would look good behind the 0395. But not sure the little goods engine would actually move it.

 

 

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A slight change from yesterday, I have moved the brake lever support from the frame work to the footplate as the long frame members are slightly to far apart. I also made up a vacuum cylinder and mounted that on the frames.

 

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This adding parts that should of been in the kit leads to problems elsewhere. One that was known about and could of been dealt with whist building the bogies. The cross members on the bogies should not be straight but stepped in towards the centres. A little fettling and it will work again.

 

 

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I made the levers for the cross shaft, the U shaped one goes from the small cams to the brake rigging with the other one between the U to the cylinder.

 

 

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Hopefully now these can be finished on Monday. I really want to get the main frames finished now. I know most of the problems with the bodies and I want to get cracking with them.

 

 

 

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Well I had a shortish sesion at the bench today, first time since Friday. I thought I had a good day but the result does not show up very well.

 

Today was tender brake rigging day. It is done upart from a bit of trimming and filing.  I am still unsure whether to leave the rear hangers as they are easy to disassemble but not as they should be. It is easy to make them look right but not so they are removeable.

 

Back to today, The first job was to fit the levers I made the other day, along with a freshly made adjuster. At the bogie end of the adjuster there is a three hole compensator  link. The pull is to the centre the bottom goes to the front bogie the top goes to the rear.

 

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The front bogie only has a short pull to a post in the centre of the  front tie bar, and then a from above this to the rear tie bar.

 

 

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The rear bogie arrangement is the same except the pull rood passes over the top of the front two axles.

 

 

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I was very concerned when I started that the bogies would become too stiff. But there is enough movement in the front bogie if I leave the pin at the front of the adjuster loose. The pin in the top of the compensator for the rear bogie will be loose until final assembly (not easy to get to) then there is enough flex in the long pull wire to allow ther rear bogie to pivot. Mind you if the cure is too tight I can see the brakes being applied.

 

Now what can actually be seen when the whole lot is the right way up on the track, Well, not a lot really, but at least we know it is there. The most important bit to my mind was filling that empty void infront of the front bogie.

 

It looks like I need to sort out the front bogie the frame seems to be point down hill to the front. I am hoping it is optical, but not putting any money on it.

 

 

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I suppose it is back to the loco now and try and get it's frames up andrunning to the same sort of position.

 

 

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Love the slack adjuster!

Thanks David. Shame some of these parts get hidden.

 

Talking of parts, will you be doing the parts as Gladiatorused to or are they not with you?

 

 

i have just spent a while reading yuor build, very enjoyable and am looking foirward to more progress.

 

Thanks Dan

It's a bit of a challenge but I knew it would be. I also like toget the models as good as I can without spending to much money or time. If I was building this for me I would do a lot more.

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Just a little done today. I am back to the loco. I have the basic cylinders made, they need all the details, but first I want to get the crossheads, slide bars and motion bracket sorted out. 

 

The faults there are two sets fo crossheads, one cast witemetal, which are to high to fit between the slide bars, and etched ones that the centre is no high enough or wide enough to sit between the slide bars. Also there is nothing for the piston rods. I think it will be etched ones beefed up.

 

The motion bracket only holds the top slide bar so this will be remade.

 

The slide bars is where I started today. The kit comes with etched flat nickle silver, quite unlike the real thing. The Urie S15 has quite chunky slidebars, it looks almost like an H section laying on its side.

 

 

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This is shows one that has been modified (bottom) and one of the originals (top) It was fiddly making four laminated slide bars, cast in nickle would be much better. You can also see, William's over zealous slots for tiny tabs.

 

 

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All four or now done. Next job is the motion bracket, then it can be assembled and used as jig for the crossheads.

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Talking of parts, will you be doing the parts as Gladiatorused to or are they not with you?

 

Gladiator parts:

 

We have not acquired the PFS pick-ups nor the threaded crankpins. We will be able to supply both white-metal and brass castings from the kits separately if there is a demand. We are already in the process of supplying replacement parts for lost/worn-out items, including etched parts. However, the prime purpose of the business is to make complete kits available and we are concentrating on getting the whole range available. So long as people keep buying what we have in stock now we will be able to have the full range available by the end of this year.

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  • 3 weeks later...

WellMy bench has moved vertically about 8 feet, and is now slightlyshorter at one end. So I will either have tobetidier or there will be a pile of tools on the floor. It gave me a chance to have a good tidy upand clear out of some of the things that may be useful in the future that havebeen taking up shelf space for years.

 

I decided I ought to start doing some work again.

 

I was going to clean up the Dukedog ready for painting, but as it was raining I got on with other things before getting the S15 out again.

 

The pile of bits here I am told by the instructions will make the cylinders, crossheads, motion bracket and footplate supports/ Slide bars are already modified.

 

 

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Faults first only one pair of footplate supports are supplied. willhave to make the other pair. The crossheads etches make up to be to narrow and slightly low.

The motion bracket would only support the top slide bar, or that is what I thought I then found out it was only to a tiny pip. I made a mark 2 bracket but realised before tidying it up, I needed to adjust it to suit the cylinder rather than assume it would fit. Mark 3 came about and is set to the cylinders and slide bars so it should fit quite easily there is adjstment in the space for the slide bars and up and down in the frames.

 

 

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The good points, the brake hangers abd shoes look ok, not sure about the pulls. The parts for the cyliders look good too. Plus the metal is a nickle silver. I have managed to loose the ashpan parts so I will needto make those, whivhmay actually have a little more detail.

 

Lets see what tomorrow brings!!

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Hello Peter, l think you are doing a splendid job on the S15, l have built two of Williams kits a A1X Terrier and a class K at best l would say they are just an aid to scratch building the good thing is that you get all the white metal bit you need, then just build the loco by yourself, which you seem to be doing well, ..

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I have not had much time at the bench lately. But today I managed to fit the cylinders and solder together  the slide bars and the motion bracket. It all took a little fettling as none ofthe parts are as supplied in the kit or are scratch built.

 

Ineed now to sort out a fixing point for the motion bracket. I also fitted the footplate supports Again these are not as supplied. No photo as I forgot. I also made a start withthe brakes, the hangers and shoes are ready to go together, there are bottom cross ties for the loco. But non of the rigging looks as though it will be of use. Especially as there is a large horseshoe tie with the adjuster at one end, between the brake shaft and the first crosstie.

 

 

 

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