Manchester & Milford livery question

[Anotheran]

I'm hoping that someone out there will know the answer to this one as my searches on Google have come up short.

 

I'm wanting to model Cader Idris shortly after the M&M was taken over by the GWR. My key prototype photo is the first one containing a train on the Newcastle Emlyn pages of Disused Stations: http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/n/newcastle_emlyn/newcastle(alsop1911)emlyn_old20.jpg

 

In this 1911 picture, to me the loco looks black with no lining, but it could equally well be some other dark colour. I don't know if it has been re-liveried when it was renumbered on entering GWR service or whether it was at this point still in M&M colours. Failing anything to the contrary I'm going to go for unlined black purely because my base model (which is pretty close in most key dimensions to Cader Idris) is an L&Y 2-4-2 in LMS unlined black.

 

But any information would be very gratefully received even if it means a complete respray!

 

Kind regards, Neil

[Quarryscapes]

I'd say it was GWR green, they've gone to the trouble to fit Swindon safety valve cover and number plate I'd imagine they'd have painted it at the same time. There is nothing noted in J.S. Holden's book on the likne I'm afraid. M&M livery was quite ornate, but by the time the GWR took over? who knows. 

[The Stationmaster]

The RCTS history says the M&M livery was 'black with orange lining'

[Devo63]

The RCTS history says the M&M livery was 'black with orange lining'

Carter's 1952 'Britain's Railway Liveries' states the same details quoted by Mike and also advises that they had bell mouthed, copper topped chimneys in 1906. Coaches described as dark brown with cream upper panels similar to GWR. 

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit for bad spelling

[Anotheran]

I'd say it was GWR green, they've gone to the trouble to fit Swindon safety valve cover and number plate I'd imagine they'd have painted it at the same time. There is nothing noted in J.S. Holden's book on the likne I'm afraid. M&M livery was quite ornate, but by the time the GWR took over? who knows.

Thanks for that Alan. I know that when it was taken in by the GWR Cader Idris was the only one of the M&M locos to retain it's nameplate when it was outshopped with its new number plates etc. I suspect that you're correct about it likely to have been painted at the same time. 

 

The RCTS history says the M&M livery was 'black with orange lining'

Thanks Mike, that's very useful to know. Now that you've said that of course I can almost see some slightly lighter lining on the boiler and running plate. But that's probably my imagination after you've told me about it!

 

So now, without definitive knowledge of whether it was re-liveried in 1911, I have a choice. I could do a full respray to GWR green, or add orange lining. Having said that as I have to bring the cab sides flush with the tanks and make a few other changes to the L&Y base model I'll have plasticard visible anyway, so I'm going to have to spray parts of it at least, even if it remains black.

 

I think what I'll do is have it in M&M colours (I have some photos showing where the lining is, but not what colour it was!) for a while with the likelihood of moving to GWR colours later. The photo referenced is taken in 1911, which is the year the M&M was absorbed into the GWR, but before that, as Cader Idris was purchased in 1896, I could run a little earlier than planned and then definitely have it in M&M colours... Maybe I need to buy another L&Y donor to have both!

 

Thank you again gentlemen for your quick responses!

Kind regards, Neil