hartleymartin Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 If soldering I recommend larger irons such as 40W, 60W and 80W. I have a temperature control iron but more recently I've taken to using a small gas torch. The kind used to caramelise the top of creme brulee. Soldering 1/4" brass angle to an etched nickel silver chassis was made so much easier using one of these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jintyman Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Welcome to the 7mm club!! I've recently started with O gauge from OO, and it's just so satisfying to both build and run. There are not many scales where you can get such pleasure from running something up and down a length of track. I totally agree with Peter above as the Jim McGowan wagon kits are a brilliant stepping stone from Parkside/Slaters to a brass loco kit. I've recently built one of Jim's Toad brake vans, and it just about fell together. Great kits to hone your metal working skills. As for ready to run, Ixion do some lovely industrial types, for reasonable money, and Dapol have recently introduced the Terrier in RTR. There are some other stock items available from other manufacturers and a look through the Gauge O guild traders links http://gauge0guild.com/traders/Traders_links.aspx will uncover lots of available things. I'm pretty sure you don't need to be a member to see this page. All the best with your endeavours Jinty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Wright Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 Thought I'd get the show on the road and brought a Slaters Gloucester 5 Plank PO Wagon https://slatersplastikard.com/linePage.php?code=7044 Really fancied a meat van or covered wagon but took the advice of you folk to stick with an open top. I've also purchased an A3 cutting mat to ensure I don't destroy any work tops at home. I appreciate that when this arrives, having no tools, I can't crack straight on. What are the essential tools I need from the off to get this wagon made? I'm thinking of getting a scalpel/cutting knife and some files as suggested in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 That's a good choice, relatively simple. You'll certainly need a scalpel. Some fine pliers - for holding the pesky little nuts that keep the buffers in place. Possibly for forming the three link couplings too. Some fine files, if only for rounding off the end plates. Something to open up small holes. A rat tail file will do at at a pinch, a reamer is better. A crappy paint brush for putting on the Mekpak (or better still Plastic Weld). Some better brushes for the paint job. A small vice comes in handy. The other essential tool is patience. I suggest you chemically blacken the buffers, buffer guides (if brass) coupling hooks and wheels before you start. If you use paint the buffers in particular jam up, almost invariably. Goods wagons never had shiny buffers. Take care to wash the chemical blackening off the steel as otherwise it will rust to !!!!. By the way, that's another tool you need. A fibre glass pencil to clean/burnish the metal so you can blacken it. As has been mentioned, always start by fitting the buffers and couplings to the end. The buffers in particular are an absolute pain to fit if you do it later. The reason is you have to assemble them with a tiny spring and a 12BA nut. Those springs and nuts tend to fly off everywhere so do take extreme care. Slater's do provide spare springs and before you've built many wagons you'll likely find you've the need of some. The rest of the assembly should be relatively simple, with care. Try to keep everything square and use something very flat (ideally plate glass) to make sure all four wheels are in full contact with the ground. Harder than it sounds, but not impossible. Also check carefully that the axles are parallel. (A jig for this can be bought from Brassmasters.) If you get an 'uneven table' effect, try to adjust. But if all else fails buy a brass compensation kit from Slater's (easiest choice) as that will cure the problem. Personally, I don't worry too much if wagon bodies aren't 100% square as wooden wagons warped. But the running gear has to sit correctly on the track or it will not be a reliable runner. If you want to detail the interior this is (perhaps obviously) best done before assembly. The simplest way is to scribe the planks and add interior ironwork from Plastikard. If you want a Rolls Royce job, MMP sell etched interiors which go the full mile, but this might be a bit of overkill for a first model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Hi, In order to build that wagon you will need. Glue. I use Humbrol precision poly cement as I like the way you can accurately apply the glue. Scalpul or Stanley knife. A 1.5mm drill bit for the buffers as they are a bit of a tight fit. A pair of needle nose pliers for making up the couplings and bending/cutting the handrails. A 0.7mm drill bit for the metal hand grabs. Superglue for the metal hand grabs. A set of files for cleaning up the sprues. A selection of fine grade sand papers for keying the plastic and making glue overspills go away. A sheet of glass or small mirror about 8inches by 4inches so that your wagon doesn't wobble on the axles and sits flat. Some silcone grease for the brass bearings, this will last you forever as it only needs a very small amount per wagon. Some elastic bands for the body whilst the glue sets. Then just take your time and enjoy. Regards Vin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Wright Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 That's a good choice, relatively simple. You'll certainly need a scalpel. Some fine pliers - for holding the pesky little nuts that keep the buffers in place. Possibly for forming the three link couplings too. Some fine files, if only for rounding off the end plates. Something to open up small holes. A rat tail file will do at at a pinch, a reamer is better. A crappy paint brush for putting on the Mekpak (or better still Plastic Weld). Some better brushes for the paint job. A small vice comes in handy. The other essential tool is patience. I suggest you chemically blacken the buffers, buffer guides (if brass) coupling hooks and wheels before you start. If you use paint the buffers in particular jam up, almost invariably. Goods wagons never had shiny buffers. Take care to wash the chemical blackening off the steel as otherwise it will rust to !!!!. By the way, that's another tool you need. A fibre glass pencil to clean/burnish the metal so you can blacken it. As has been mentioned, always start by fitting the buffers and couplings to the end. The buffers in particular are an absolute pain to fit if you do it later. The reason is you have to assemble them with a tiny spring and a 12BA nut. Those springs and nuts tend to fly off everywhere so do take extreme care. Slater's do provide spare springs and before you've built many wagons you'll likely find you've the need of some. The rest of the assembly should be relatively simple, with care. Try to keep everything square and use something very flat (ideally plate glass) to make sure all four wheels are in full contact with the ground. Harder than it sounds, but not impossible. Also check carefully that the axles are parallel. (A jig for this can be bought from Brassmasters.) If you get an 'uneven table' effect, try to adjust. But if all else fails buy a brass compensation kit from Slater's (easiest choice) as that will cure the problem. Personally, I don't worry too much if wagon bodies aren't 100% square as wooden wagons warped. But the running gear has to sit correctly on the track or it will not be a reliable runner. If you want to detail the interior this is (perhaps obviously) best done before assembly. The simplest way is to scribe the planks and add interior ironwork from Plastikard. If you want a Rolls Royce job, MMP sell etched interiors which go the full mile, but this might be a bit of overkill for a first model. You've made this sound much more complicated than I had hoped haha! I'll be sure to use your advice and if I get stuck I will post on here. Thankyou. Hi, In order to build that wagon you will need. Glue. I use Humbrol precision poly cement as I like the way you can accurately apply the glue. Scalpul or Stanley knife. A 1.5mm drill bit for the buffers as they are a bit of a tight fit. A pair of needle nose pliers for making up the couplings and bending/cutting the handrails. A 0.7mm drill bit for the metal hand grabs. Superglue for the metal hand grabs. A set of files for cleaning up the sprues. A selection of fine grade sand papers for keying the plastic and making glue overspills go away. A sheet of glass or small mirror about 8inches by 4inches so that your wagon doesn't wobble on the axles and sits flat. Some silcone grease for the brass bearings, this will last you forever as it only needs a very small amount per wagon. Some elastic bands for the body whilst the glue sets. Then just take your time and enjoy. Regards Vin Fantastic, I'll get a list together and start going through it in time. I'm in no rush but want it looking good so I can be satisfied when it's completed. Thanks for your help! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I'd definitely go with the scalpel, brushes, a set of micro drills and a pin chuck with which to hold them. As far as scalpels are concerned, Swann Morton standard handle, I always use #11 straight blades, unless there's something special to carve, and even then... I have the Xuron micro pliers which I love. Superglue - and cocktail sticks with which to apply it Files - initially a cheapo set of small ones will do, but assuming you stick with it, you'll want something better. The sets have shapes you'll rarely if ever use, like half-round. You might consider buying a good 6" smooth flat file, and only acquiring more as you need them Needle files, a cheap set is probably a good starting point, again, you'll want better ones eventually. Don't file whitemetal with good files! Cutting parts from the sprue - I use the Xuron rail cutters, and clean up with the scalpel. Sandpaper - I don't really use it for modelling, but emery/wet&dry, very useful. You can get emery cloth as a tape. Get smooth and less smooth, say 300, 180 and 100 grit. Very smooth, 1200, also useful And the most useful thing I keep next to my workbench is an A4 - sized piece of MDF to which I have stuck a full piece of quite coarse wet&dry. Very effective for obtaining straight, flat filed edges, polishing rail, rounding things, wherever a straight line is needed. You don't need metal black, but if you can get it, it will enhance your wagon. An alternative to paint for buffers is a permanent black marker pen. Works on wheels too. The glass plate or mirror is very good, but a clean bit of thick MDF will do And for glue, MEK-pak, Plastic weld or the Humbrol equivalent. I've heard good things about limonene but never used it. Go for it, enjoy, and please post your piccies! Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Wright Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 I'd definitely go with the scalpel, brushes, a set of micro drills and a pin chuck with which to hold them. As far as scalpels are concerned, Swann Morton standard handle, I always use #11 straight blades, unless there's something special to carve, and even then... I have the Xuron micro pliers which I love. Superglue - and cocktail sticks with which to apply it Files - initially a cheapo set of small ones will do, but assuming you stick with it, you'll want something better. The sets have shapes you'll rarely if ever use, like half-round. You might consider buying a good 6" smooth flat file, and only acquiring more as you need them Needle files, a cheap set is probably a good starting point, again, you'll want better ones eventually. Don't file whitemetal with good files! Cutting parts from the sprue - I use the Xuron rail cutters, and clean up with the scalpel. Sandpaper - I don't really use it for modelling, but emery/wet&dry, very useful. You can get emery cloth as a tape. Get smooth and less smooth, say 300, 180 and 100 grit. Very smooth, 1200, also useful And the most useful thing I keep next to my workbench is an A4 - sized piece of MDF to which I have stuck a full piece of quite coarse wet&dry. Very effective for obtaining straight, flat filed edges, polishing rail, rounding things, wherever a straight line is needed. You don't need metal black, but if you can get it, it will enhance your wagon. An alternative to paint for buffers is a permanent black marker pen. Works on wheels too. The glass plate or mirror is very good, but a clean bit of thick MDF will do And for glue, MEK-pak, Plastic weld or the Humbrol equivalent. I've heard good things about limonene but never used it. Go for it, enjoy, and please post your piccies! Best Simon Simon, Thanks very much for your time and all your advice is well noted. I'll get onto those essential tools after payday I think so I can make a start when the wagon arrives. I'll be sure to post some pictures of my progress and I look forward to the challenging that await! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 A liquid solvent cement is good, applied with a small paintbrush. Use in a well-ventilated area though! Another great glue to look at is Zap-A-Gap Medium CA. You can apply it using the spout that comes with the bottle or using a pin and a small scrap of styrene to hold a few drops of it. It doesn't grab immediately like your usual super-glue and sets in an anaerobic environment - so drill a small hole in the cap so it doesn't all set in the bottle! Sandpaper, a variety of files, knives, etc will all serve you well. Small warding files are excellent and small mill files do several useful jobs. I bought a selection of them on sale last year for about $6 each. Reputable brand too. Must have been a stock clearance or something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railwayrod Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Hello David, Welcome to the world of 7mm to the foot. I am sure you will enjoy the larger scale and not regret it at all. I will not deal with tools as I feel you have been given a great deal of advice on these but can I make a suggestion which may help you to prevent small parts dropping off the work bench. If you use an apron (but not the one belonging to the lady of the house) and clamp the bottom to the work bench/kitchen table this will form a "pocket" which should catch anything you drop. This is a tip given to me by a fellow member of EXG0G our local 0 gauge group and has proved to be very useful. Do remember though that you are attached to the bench so don't jump up and rum off somewhere without unclamping yourself! Rod Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I do like the idea, but I can see it being counter productive, as I haul the entire contents off the workbench and onto the floor as I leap up to answer the phone/door/cat.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthesnail96 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Rather timely, if you've not already seen it Chaz is detailing some handy tips for building plastic wagon kits in the "Dock Green" thread on this forum Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Hi, Here are some wagons I made a couple of years ago.Hi Dudley, I've had a look for this issue of BRM but cannot find it. My rubbish filing system! I can show you some close up shots of my wagons. All of these are built from PS104 hopper kits and are basically out of the box without additional parts, even down to the transfers. The only additional consumables needed are Humbrol Precision Poly cement, rattle can grey primer, rattle can matt black, Railmatch freight stock rail grey, Railmatch frame dirt and a whole host of weathering powders and paints. The main adjustment I make to the kit are to the coupling hooks which need shortening so that they fit between the headstock and the inner frame. hop21 B423283.jpg hop21 B423283 other side.jpg HOP 21 B423283.jpg hto b416445.jpg o gauge stock feb2012 mdo and hto 023.jpg o gauge stock feb2012 mdo and hto 053.jpg All these wagons are modelled from Paul Barletts wagon website, just search for HTO. I built the bodies first leaving them to set overnight and then spraying them all over with grey primer. While that is drying I built the chassis separately on a piece of plate glass so that the frame doesn't twist, which will cause the wagon too wobble once finished. When the chassis is set I lightly oiled the axle boxes and taped the wheel treads, spraying it with matt black paint before the buffers and coupling hooks are fitted. The bodies are now sprayed freight stock grey and married to the body. I hope this helps? Vin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I'll repost the photos of the wagaons later today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Wright Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 I'll repost the photos of the wagaons later today. Please do! I look forward to seeing them Vin, Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Hi David, I cannot find the old wagon photos, so I've taken some of a grampus wagon that I'm building. This isn't a standard Parkside Dundas wagon as it has parts from a Slater's kit in order to turn it into a vacuum braked version. So the brake shoes, vacuum cylinder and brake pipes are different from the original kit. Still to fit are instantler couplings and the rods for the brake rigging, none of this is in the standard kit. Also these wagons are a bit light, weighing in at 64g. This will increase with the addition of a load to about 120g. If you don't want a load a small lead weight epoxy glued to the underside will suffice. As you can see the top has already been painted into departmental livery so I only have to mask off the underframe and prime it before an application of black. This is then followed by some weathering, numbering and then some more weathering to finish it off. I usually use an airbrush and Carr's weathering powders with a bit of dry brushing for the weathering. Regards Vin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Wright Posted November 27, 2015 Author Share Posted November 27, 2015 Hi David, I cannot find the old wagon photos, so I've taken some of a grampus wagon that I'm building. This isn't a standard Parkside Dundas wagon as it has parts from a Slater's kit in order to turn it into a vacuum braked version. So the brake shoes, vacuum cylinder and brake pipes are different from the original kit. Still to fit are instantler couplings and the rods for the brake rigging, none of this is in the standard kit. DSC01502.JPG DSC01503.JPG DSC01504.JPG DSC01506.JPG DSC01507.JPG DSC01508.JPG Also these wagons are a bit light, weighing in at 64g. This will increase with the addition of a load to about 120g. If you don't want a load a small lead weight epoxy glued to the underside will suffice. As you can see the top has already been painted into departmental livery so I only have to mask off the underframe and prime it before an application of black. This is then followed by some weathering, numbering and then some more weathering to finish it off. I usually use an airbrush and Carr's weathering powders with a bit of dry brushing for the weathering. Regards Vin Fantastic. These looks really good! Is this the only grampus wagon you have or are you making a few on the go? Please post an image when you have finished it and it's all weathered, I'd be very interested to see it. I'll use the tips you've mentioned. My slaters wagon is here now so I can start cracking on with it. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Wright Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 Hi guys, So my first model is well under way. I went for the Slater Gloucester 5 Plank Wagon; Still very new to this hobby, especially building kits. First issue I ran into is I glued one of the side panels on the underframe at an angle. Luckily the glue hadn't quite set so I was able to pull it off and straighten her up. I'm really glad a few of you that have helped me told to apply the buffers first before I glued the panels to the base of the kit. It really looks a nightmare to do this afterwards so I'm happy I did it this way around. I've now attached all the panel together around the base and the wagon really is taking shape. Got tomorrow off work so maybe have a crack at getting the underframe done and hopefully have the wheels on before Xmas! God knows how I'm going to paint it, that's the bit that scares me now! Cheers, Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 If you don't have an airbrush, Tamiya Rattle Can Light Grey primer is excellent stuff (just remember to put masking tape on the wheel treads). I would also take a small mousetail file or drill to slightly open out the buffer housings so they don't stick. I've been without an airbrush so I've just used the Tamiya range of spray paints. If you don't have an airbrush, Tamiya Rattle Can Light Grey primer is excellent stuff (just remember to put masking tape on the wheel treads). I would also take a small mousetail file or drill to slightly open out the buffer housings so they don't stick. I've been without an airbrush so I've just used the Tamiya range of spray paints. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Halfords " grey or red primer " rattle cans are good value in my opinion, just make sure you remove any greasy hand prints first. Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGhostofNigelGresley Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Looking good Dave. I use the Halfords primer, but in white. You pays your money, you takes your choice.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 "I use the Halfords primer, but in white." More ghostly, perhaps? Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Wright Posted December 13, 2015 Author Share Posted December 13, 2015 If you don't have an airbrush, Tamiya Rattle Can Light Grey primer is excellent stuff (just remember to put masking tape on the wheel treads). I would also take a small mousetail file or drill to slightly open out the buffer housings so they don't stick. I've been without an airbrush so I've just used the Tamiya range of spray paints. If you don't have an airbrush, Tamiya Rattle Can Light Grey primer is excellent stuff (just remember to put masking tape on the wheel treads). I would also take a small mousetail file or drill to slightly open out the buffer housings so they don't stick. I've been without an airbrush so I've just used the Tamiya range of spray paints. Halfords " grey or red primer " rattle cans are good value in my opinion, just make sure you remove any greasy hand prints first. Martyn. Looking good Dave. I use the Halfords primer, but in white. You pays your money, you takes your choice.... Halford Primer it is then! I'll keep you update when I've assembled it all and it's ready to paint! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jintyman Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Nice looking wagon. You've done a nice neat job for your first attempt. As for the wheels, if the Slaters kits are anything like the Parkside kits, you can still ease the wheels out when it's built, but if spraying, I would put some small squares of masking tape over the axle holes. That way you can paint the wheels seperate or use a blackening fluid, which is what I use. Keep up the great work Jinty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Wright Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 Hi guys, Quick update, the building side of my first ever wagon is complete! I stand proud The wheels are on, they don't sit 100% flush altogether on a flat piece of glass but it's not too far out to affect the running of it on rails. The brake's were the fiddliest part and I jumped ahead a little bit without realising I needed to connect a rod between the V frames and side bar. As long as your not planning on seeing it from upside down it doesn't really matter. In terms of painting I'll primer it as advised but where do I get transfers from to make this a private owned wagon? Where is best to get these? In terms of painting after primer what are the best paints to buy? I won't be using an airbrush, just a paint brush. And what weather powders do you all recommend? Sorry for the heap of questions but I'm too excited to get it looking like a piece of industrial rolling stock!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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