Tracklaying

[Peppercorn]

Good morning,

 

At the risk of general moaning, I have a question about the most appropriate method of tracklaying.

 

I have decided, at long last, to go with a plan that I've had for many years. It has its disadvantages, but is buildable within a decent time, and should enable some interesting running. (C J Freezer's "Victoria Square" which I could post here if you wish (Peco have told me that would be OK))

 

It is, however, more than many years since I last laid track (I was merely middle aged then...)  - I recall pinning it through a cork base to whatever sub-base I used, which may well have been a Sundela board. And before that the Wrenn fibre base track with bird seed ballast looked OK-ish, albeit crude.

 

In the interim I've read much and there seem to be more methods now than then.

 

Now, I know that many use PVA together with granite chippings, but have also seen the word concrete used by a number of modellers in that context. No criticism intended there, but it does seem that once used, this method is not flexible should one wish, for example, to revise the track layout.

 

Proposed Method

 

1. In my case my baseboard is MDF suitably sealed (it's in my loft) I'd considered pinning track to it via cork, but found it practically speaking impossible to do this without damaging the sleepers.

 

2. I've glued, again with "Evostick", 6mm closed cell foam (which is quite firm) to the MDF base.

 

3. Next layer is intended to be to stick 3mm cork to the closed cell foam again with "Evostick".

 

4. Then, lastly, I was thinking of sticking the track itself to the cork. The track is to consist of Peco pointwork and SMP track, supplemented, or even replaced in time, by C & L (once I've mastered its manufacture in a timely manner) 

 

5. I'm considering ballasting with cork bits as sold by C & L, and thought I'd use a diluted glue such as - oh! I've temporarily forgotten the tradename - that won't set solid. Just remembered - Copydex

 

I'd really like to get something running, and am being driven now by my grandson of 71/2 who I'm keen to encourage. I'd be very grateful for any advice and would thank you.

 

Regards,

 

 

Cliff

 

PS I've laid a little using Copydex, but it came apart pretty easily. I saw somewhere about using 'painter's caulk': anyone 1. know what this is 2. does it work

?

[philsandy]

Cliff,

 

My advise is do not use pins to fix the track down.

I used Copydex to fix 3mm cork to the baseboard, and also to fix the track to the cork.

For ballasting again Copydex and water mix of 50/50.

 

This was advise given on here from others, and has worked well for me.

Copydex is good because it's a latex and is easier if you ever have to lift up a section of track to re lay, and makes for quieter running than using PVA. Don't know re Evostick  as I've not used it.

[knitpick]

I do pin track down - and on MDF.  Firstly, I use Hornby track pins rather than Peco.  Secondly, I predrill an undersize hole in sleeper and MDF.

 

Once pinned down, I ballast using N scale granite ballast chips for OO scale track - stuck down using Evostick PVA diluted with water and a drop of washing up liquid.  Do NOT use the waterproof / exterior Evostick PVA.  If you feel that you may wish to lift the track later, then don't nail the track pins fully home but remove them after the PVA ballast mix has set.

 

This method has survived in a Garage so is reasonably permanent despite risk of damp.  BUT with moderate soaking, the PVA ballast mix will loosen and the track can be lifted.  Even if the ballast has been weathered with a light coating of Humbrol enamel paints.  Use a wallpaper scraper as your lifting tool and work on a short length of track at a time.  Again this has been done a couple of times but the lifted ballast PVA mix cannot be reused as track ballast.

 

And yes, it's not a quiet running surface - but an underlay of cork will help reduce the noise.

 

Hope this is helpful - but I do advise you to go with what you feel comfortable with rather than what might "look best".  The primary objective is to have a running model railway.

[BR60103]

On my current layout, I'm using Woodland Scenics Scenic Cement (i think that's it). I think it is diluted acrylic matte medium. I'm using Homasote (North American pressed paper board), WS roadbed and a variety of commercial track (much Peco).

I don't pin the track down unless there's a good reason. The roadbed is pinned in place and cement dropped (by eye dropper) at the edge to seep in. When it's set, I put the track down and use pins to position it horizontally, then hold it tight against the roadbed (angle against the rails). Then mist with denatured alcohol and drop cement between and outside the sleepers.

Pinning through the rubber roadbed can create problems with the track. I sometimes have to put extra pins at joints on curves.

The Scenic Cement can be loosened with more water, slightly warm.

[Pacific231G]

Cliff,

 

My advise is do not use pins to fix the track down.

I used Copydex to fix 3mm cork to the baseboard, and also to fix the track to the cork.

For ballasting again Copydex and water mix of 50/50.

 

This was advise given on here from others, and has worked well for me.

Copydex is good because it's a latex and is easier if you ever have to lift up a section of track to re lay, and makes for quieter running than using PVA. Don't know re Evostick  as I've not used it.

I've always pinned track before ballasting it but I don't actually recommend it !! The reason I've done it is that I always seem to make changes in my track plans after running trains on them so tend to leave the track unballasted for a few months. I'm pretty sure though that, even with pre-driling, the pins tend to distort the track. As my next layout will be code 75 which needs a bit less hamfistedness I think I need to do things differently.

I use well diluted PVA with a wetting agent to fix ballast but I'm very open to an adhesive that allows track to be lifted and the ballast cleared but is secure enough for a portable layout.  The big railway can do that so it's annoying if we can't *

I've heard tell of matte medium (possibly cheaper from an arts supplier ?) but have never tried it.

 

*One of the most frustrating jobs I remember was breaking up the concrete in which a 2' gauge track was embedded in a loco shed. I can't remember whether we were adding a road or simply moving the track to get a wider clearance but I do remember bashing away with a sledge hammer and making very slow progress.

[edcayton]

I honestly think that if you are going to paint/weather the track before/after ballasting then it is as well to accept that the track, points etc can't really be re-used. If you think that you may want to alter things have you considered using foam ballast? I have tried it once and didn't get on with it, and many people report it deteriorating with age beyond 3 years or so.

 

I'm guessing you'll have some MDF left over, so why not try various techniques on a scrap piece with some spare track?

 

Ed

[Pacific231G]

I honestly think that if you are going to paint/weather the track before/after ballasting then it is as well to accept that the track, points etc can't really be re-used. If you think that you may want to alter things have you considered using foam ballast? I have tried it once and didn't get on with it, and many people report it deteriorating with age beyond 3 years or so.

Not a chance!! I think it looks rather toylike and in any case I change the sleeper spacings. I know of at least one well known exhibition layout that was finally retired when the foam ballast crumbled. Once I've settled on the track arrangement ballasting and painting does make it permanent but it's at the stage before that where I've tended to use pins (which are normally later removed)  

[edcayton]

Yes, but the OP wants to change track layout and re-use track/points!

 

Ed

[Pacific231G]

Yes, but the OP wants to change track layout and re-use track/points!

 

Ed

Re-reading Peppercorn's OP it's clear that he intends to glue the track which on MDF makes good sense. 

[GWR Joe]

How strong is the copydex method?

 

I guess it's kind of on topic, personally I have a corner that goes in to a point so has to line up just right and also a lift out section that may need pva

[Vistisen]

I have used Copydex on closed cell foam, which on my trials runs was a lot quieter than PVA on cork. It also has the advantage of being more resiliant to warping dyring out and heat expansion. My sample tracks after lying against a wall for a year showed that the copydex track was still in place, but the pva har popped out of it's bedding due to warping of the thin bit of PLY I used as test bed.

 

I am just about to start a new layout and am planning to try extruded foam as a baseboard with plywood edges, and the thinest plywood glued on as a surface, the trackbed will be closed foam on this

Tillig track will be glued in place with copydex

[BRealistic]

 

I am just about to start a new layout and am planning to try extruded foam as a baseboard with plywood edges, and the thinest plywood glued on as a surface, the trackbed will be closed foam on this

Tillig track will be glued in place with copydex

 

That sounds very interesting to me, Vistiaen ... the kind of of subject that deserves a new thread of it's own!

[Vistisen]

That sounds very interesting to me, Vistiaen ... the kind of of subject that deserves a new thread of it's own!

I'm afraid to say that you should not hold your breath. My first project took several years, the Photos are in my gallery. Moddeling is something I get to do all to rarely. I have been inspired by this thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/13410-new-baseboard-materialstechniques/?p=119945&hl=trisonic&fromsearch=1&do=findComment&comment=119945. I will try and take som pictures as I go and let others learn from my mistakes, and boy, will you learn a lot judging by the number of mistakes I made on the first layout

[BRealistic]

You don't do your modelling justice... there are some really nice scenes in your gallery! Keep up the good work in the future.

 

About your intended 'baseboard'.. is the thin piece of ply on top of the extruded foam for attaching point motors and the like?... and are you thinking of gluing to the foam... with a few additional fixings to the ply edges?   Tell me to go way if you haven't yet thought it all through!!

 

Best wishes