RMweb Premium Reorte Posted November 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2015 Well this thread seems to be going nowhere fast except that the arm chair experts get to flex their grey matter and amaze us with their wealth of knowledge. As has been said earlier it is just wild assummptions until the real facts come to light. I don't see what's wrong with people having a think about what's happening and what it could mean (as long as no-one's involved in any official invesigation). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted November 25, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2015 Well this thread seems to be going nowhere fast.... ...and that's a problem because? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Well this thread seems to be going nowhere fast Perhaps the thread triggered the TPWS system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 This topic is interesting (just like the one on Wooton Bassett incident) speculation included. Because it educates the general public reader (like me) who has very little knowledge of the working railways of today, on how the railway that we might use actually operates. Also on the safety measures that are there to protect us and flaws in the system (be they mechanical or human). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted November 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2015 Isn't that exactly the solution I suggested on the previous thread? http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/104135-tangmere-spad-raib-update/?p=2059289 Andi Yep Although if the rules are followed it's safer in the cab as you don't have to go lineside to isolate it when it needs to be. A real Catch 22. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2015 Has anybody actually found the ORR Notice? I have looked on their website several times since yesterday and I can't find it at all - it's not listed under Notices (which is where I would have expected to find it) and I can't find in the 'News' section either. If you find it please link it. At least if we could find the original ORR Notice we might then know exactly what it said, as opposed to 'Rail's' report of what it said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted November 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2015 Has anybody actually found the ORR Notice? I have looked on their website several times since yesterday and I can't find it at all - it's not listed under Notices (which is where I would have expected to find it) and I can't find in the 'News' section either. If you find it please link it. At least if we could find the original ORR Notice we might then know exactly what it said, as opposed to 'Rail's' report of what it said. Hello Mike, This is the only reference I can find. http://orr.gov.uk/publications/notices/legal-notices/prohibition-notices/prohibition-notices-2015 It says that full details can be found on the Public Register, but it doesn't seem to be there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
avonside1563 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Ian Riley's Black 5 45407 has today made it's way to Bristol in preparation for the Bath Christmas Market trip to Poole trip on 26th and Christmas Cheshireman to Shrewsbury on 28th, all of which is being operated by West Coast quite legitimately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
modfather Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 However Riley's loco's are set up differently (I had a quick look when they came on depot earlier). They are also kept and maintained to a much higher standard... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted November 25, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2015 However Riley's loco's are set up differently (I had a quick look when they came on depot earlier). They are also kept and maintained to a much higher standard... than.....? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
11B Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Statement from WCR http://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/2015/11/25/west-coast-railways-responds-to-steam-prohibition Reading it, it may also affect others! But we will need to wait and see.... Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 So in WCR world being banned = "made West Coast Railways aware of". Perhaps if they started living in the real world then maybe they would not have so many "problems".... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad McCann Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I have seen a copy (electronic) of the text of the notice. I interpret the wording as the TPWS equipment having been found in a deactivated state aboard a steam locomotive, implying that it had been purposely switched off. It's not clear whether this has been done intentionally or accidentally but in the case of the latter, I suspect that it would have been picked up during the 'pre-flight' checks before the machine in question left to begin its duties. If this is the case, it is somewhat taking the pee, given the sh1tstorm that broke earlier this year. Nevertheless, this is the speculation of an amateur pundit and therefore only to be regarded as such until the ORR completes its investigations. It has to be said though that it places WCRC in a rather unenviable position and regardless of the outcome, the company will have suffered serious reputational damage in the industry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted November 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2015 All preserved steam trains operating on the main line in Ireland are crewed by Irish Rail crews or Northern Ireland Railways crews (as appropriate). Thus the trains are under the full control of the relevant state railway company. Perhaps a similar arrangement could be considered for Britain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 All preserved steam trains operating on the main line in Ireland are crewed by Irish Rail crews or Northern Ireland Railways crews (as appropriate). Thus the trains are under the full control of the relevant state railway company. Perhaps a similar arrangement could be considered for Britain. Given the UKs sledge hammer and walnut approach to these things they're more likely to ban chuff chuffs from the main line entirely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 the relevant state railway company That might be a problem this side of the Irish Sea ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted November 25, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2015 All preserved steam trains operating on the main line in Ireland are crewed by Irish Rail crews or Northern Ireland Railways crews (as appropriate). Thus the trains are under the full control of the relevant state railway company. Perhaps a similar arrangement could be considered for Britain. DBS supply crews for a number of mainline steam operations in the UK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 So the relevant state railway company is the German one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted November 25, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2015 I didn't realise there was a UK state railway operating company..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted November 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2015 I didn't realise there was a UK state railway operating company..... DRS? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom J Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Ireland is exempt from EU unbundling requirements, IIR due to its size and lack of connectivity. There are state owned operators elsewhere, generally where certain EU members have decided the rules don't entirely apply to them... <cough> SNCF <sneeze> DB <burp> PKP... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted November 26, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 26, 2015 than.....? I believe that Riley's locos have a different arrange with regard to the AWS / TPWS isolation valve which means it cannot be operated from within the cab (like "Mayflower"). As such the ORR have given permission for WCR to operate 45407. As further locos are modified and the AWS / TPWS isolation valves move out of their cabs, the number of locos WCR will be allowed to operate will increase. As for whether Riley's locos are better maintained...... that is not actually reverent to the current situation, as there is no suggestion that maintenance standards had anything to do with the Doncaster incident which triggered the ORR action. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supaned Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 one might also suggest that it would be cheaper to have footplate crews who can follow basic operational procedures than to modify locomotives.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I believe that Riley's locos have a different arrange with regard to the AWS / TPWS isolation valve which means it cannot be operated from within the cab (like "Mayflower"). As such the ORR have given permission for WCR to operate 45407. As further locos are modified and the AWS / TPWS isolation valves move out of their cabs, the number of locos WCR will be allowed to operate will increase. As for whether Riley's locos are better maintained...... that is not actually reverent to the current situation, as there is no suggestion that maintenance standards had anything to do with the Doncaster incident which triggered the ORR action. At least one of the valves requiring to be operating on 45407 is outside the cab, directly below the drivers seat but only accessible from the exterior drivers side below cab floor level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad McCann Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 All the more reason to check it before moving off... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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