High Speed Diesel Train (HSDT) - The Story continues

[shreds]

I'm hoping if a deposit is needed like with APT-E, then I'm hoping they don't want £50 for every vehicle up front, 8 coaches upfront is a fair wack of cash if they follow the same ordering method as the apt.

 

 

I will undoubtedly do the same for the HST as I did for my 'fictional' APT-Es, so bring it on.

 

But ensure it is as accurate as possible.

Edited May 16, 2016 by shreds

[Removed a/c]

From the website 

 

 

"For those of you who have been bothering us about doing the prototype Mk.3 coaches, the answer is "Yes. Now go away and let us get on with designing them."

[David_Millard]

Any news on this project from rapido/locomotion models or has it stalled?

 

Locomotion Models email update about their models last week shows a late 2017/2018 arrival

[Holmesfeldian]

I'm interested in the Derby RTC version of this model - can anyone suggest a suitable consist from available RTR rolling stock, please ?

[piranha230]

Nothing has been posted about this for a long time.

[Mr_Tilt]

I'm interested in the Derby RTC version of this model - can anyone suggest a suitable consist from available RTR rolling stock, please ?

 

You could use almost anything really and no-one would be able to say 'They didn't run like that back then'. Test trains tended to be put together on an 'as required' basis and I doubt the CM&EE did it any differently to the R&D Div. We often ran trains out to the WCML with maybe 10-12 vehicles of all sorts mixed together, from many Divisions, and then we'd split them up at Crewe and go our separate ways.

 

One of the common test consists with the 252 prototype cars was one to test the APT-P Power Cars, with appropriate lab Coaches as below.

 

[luke_stevens]

 

 

One of the common test consists with the 252 prototype cars was one to test the APT-P Power Cars

 

Ah, so when the 41 arrives we can pester Jason to do the APT-P powercar with justification! Then it would just be a simple matter of tooling the rest...

 

 

Luke

Edited July 10, 2016 by luke_stevens

[PrestburyJack]

One of the common test consists with the 252 prototype cars was one to test the APT-P Power Cars, with appropriate lab Coaches as below.

 

Hi,

 

Roughly when would this photo have been taken please?

 

Thanks, Gary

Edited July 10, 2016 by PrestburyJack

[Wolf27]

1977-1980 should cover it.

 

Cheers

 

Shane

[adb968008]

You could use almost anything really and no-one would be able to say 'They didn't run like that back then'. Test trains tended to be put together on an 'as required' basis and I doubt the CM&EE did it any differently to the R&D Div. We often ran trains out to the WCML with maybe 10-12 vehicles of all sorts mixed together, from many Divisions, and then we'd split them up at Crewe and go our separate ways.

 

One of the common test consists with the 252 prototype cars was one to test the APT-P Power Cars, with appropriate lab Coaches as below.

 

First time I've seen the Prototype HST with a yellow dipped nose with yellow roof and below buffers Edited July 12, 2016 by adb968008

[Mr_Tilt]

First time I've seen the Prototype HST with a yellow dipped nose with yellow roof and below buffers

 

That's one of the colour schemes Jason & Co. are intending to do. Not the prettiest to my mind, but seriously effective I guess. 

[No Decorum]

That’s interesting. A choice of colour schemes, eh?

 

I quite agree about the custard dip scheme. Going by Bachmann’s experience with the Blue Pullman, I would suggest that fewer of the custard dips should be produced than of the other liveries.

[Mr_Tilt]

That’s interesting. A choice of colour schemes, eh?

 

 

 

On the Rapido stand at York earlier in the year I think there were four different schemes they were proposing, but I can't find anything on the Net to say exactly which ones they were. 

[Wolf27]

Off the top of my head there would be as built (41001/2) followed by renumbered but same livery style (43000/1), then Derby RTC all yellow cabs and numbered ADB975813/4 and finally as preserved under Project Miller.

 

Cheers

 

Shane

[Opelsi]

After some thought of liking the as released condition and also having a RTC Depot, I am having difficulty in making a choice between 41001/41002 and ADB975813/4 versions. 

 

In the end I think I will take an executive decision and go for both! 

 

Absolutely fantastic that they are doing the coaches as mentioned in #105 

 

Massive thanks Rapido! 

[Mr_Tilt]

 

Absolutely fantastic that they are doing the coaches as mentioned in #105 

 

 

That may have been overtaken by events now.

 

At York earlier this year Bill Schneider was saying they were concerned that Oxford Rail were planning to do all possible variations of Mk III coaches, which would include the original 252 set. There wouldn't be any sense in both companies doing them, and I suggested some sort of co-ordination between them might work well. Bill looked interested...... 

 

I think it's a case of 'Watch This Space' on that front, for sure SOMEONE'S going to be doing the 252 coaches.

[JSpencer]

Oxfordrail have already shown in their wagons range that they are not afraid to put a livery on a wagon that technically never carried it. In fairness, they are not alone there.

 

However are they prepared to put a prototype HST livery on a production Mk3? This will be an anticlimax if they did.

 

Hornby don't shy from putting HST colours of technically loco hauled stock nor producing some non existant hybirds such as a car that is only ever used on an HST with a loco hauled chassis. Their Mk3s are getting on a bit and best suited for the railroad range now, which is why I am not buying any blue grey ones to go with their 40th anni Blue grey HST.

[UP 4000]

I can't wait for the HSDT to come along, not to sure about the all yellow front end though, a certain Beatles song springs to mind!!

 

It would be nice if Rapido did a bit of an update on the coaches front, A lot of speculation on what's happening and who's doing what.

 

I would of thought that Rapido would do there own coach set to match the HSDT loco's but can understand the possibility of using Oxford Rail as there planning doing more livery's of the MK3's so cost wise better for us,(the customers)

For me, there lies the problem, Is there going to be a compromise, I see a few already, No coach lighting, well hasn't been mentioned on there website, and colour match needs to be bang on with the loco's.

What about drive? and sound? Will it be more like  Hornby's 43's 4 axle drive in the power car and dummy at the rear, or base it on the APT-E front and rear driven cars and speakers in both off a single decoder for the sound.

I can't remember where I read it but I'm sure Jason said somewhere they would never build a dummy power unit, this might have been about an American unit not British, Honestly can't remember.

So that could rule out Oxford Rail for the coaches.

 

I do agree about the Hornby MK3's, they are getting a bit old now, And do welcome the Oxford Rail one's, I planned on a one off fictitious livery doing an 8 coach set using Hornby, but that's now scrapped and waiting for the Oxford Rail ones,

I did do the survey (which is now closed) and did request the prototype hst coaches as well as the ex Virgin livery, Should have said and hope it's possible to do an unbranded version.

One big factor swayed me, NEM couplings, Hornby's tension locks, and being slung so low down on the MK3's and HST units is ridiculous in this day and age, Why?

They offer railroad, TTS and Super Detail and the same old 30+ year coupling, I know "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" but time fore a change.

 

Sorry rant over, But the HSDT does have stiff competition, it has to rival the APT-E, without compromises,

Edited August 8, 2016 by UP 4000

[JSpencer]

I can't wait for the HSDT to come along, not to sure about the all yellow front end though, a certain Beatles song springs to mind!!

 

It would be nice if Rapido did a bit of an update on the coaches front, A lot of speculation on what's happening and who's doing what.

 

I would of thought that Rapido would do there own coach set to match the HSDT loco's but can understand the possibility of using Oxford Rail as there planning doing more livery's of the MK3's so cost wise better for us,(the customers)

For me, there lies the problem, Is there going to be a compromise, I see a few already, No coach lighting, well hasn't been mentioned on there website, and colour match needs to be bang on with the loco's.

What about drive? and sound? Will it be more like  Hornby's 43's 4 axle drive in the power car and dummy at the rear, or base it on the APT-E front and rear driven cars and speakers in both off a single decoder for the sound.

I can't remember where I read it but I'm sure Jason said somewhere they would never build a dummy power unit, this might have been about an American unit not British, Honestly can't remember.

So that could rule out Oxford Rail for the coaches.

 

I do agree about the Hornby MK3's, they are getting a bit old now, And do welcome the Oxford Rail one's, I planned on a one off fictitious livery doing an 8 coach set using Hornby, but that's now scrapped and waiting for the Oxford Rail ones,

I did do the survey (which is now closed) and did request the prototype hst coaches as well as the ex Virgin livery, Should have said and hope it's possible to do an unbranded version.

One big factor swayed me, NEM couplings, Hornby's tension locks, and being slung so low down on the MK3's and HST units is ridiculous in this day and age, Why?

They offer railroad, TTS and Super Detail and the same old 30+ year coupling, I know "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" but time fore a change.

 

Sorry rant over, But the HSDT does have stiff competition, it has to rival the APT-E, without compromises,

Rapido has made quite clear the cost differences do not merit doing a dummy car (this of course until you have to fit 2 sound decoders).

 

The jury is still out on the coaches and in any case this is more the NRM call than Rapido's. I think they are all having to wait and see what develops before making a decision. All the cards are not the table yet...

[UP 4000]

Rapido has made quite clear the cost differences do not merit doing a dummy car (this of course until you have to fit 2 sound decoders).

 

The jury is still out on the coaches and in any case this is more the NRM call than Rapido's. I think ,they are all having to wait and see what develops before making a decision. All the cards are not the table yet...

 

Thanks for that, I knew somewhere Rapido weren't intending doing a dummy, but would still require a 2nd decoder if the coaches didn't have a harness to support it, and can't see Oxford Rail doing this.

Compared to the APT-E everybody is keeping a bit hush hush over this, about time a bit of clarification on what is going on is needed, It's now not a big secret about the HSDT, and speculation is getting a bit out of hand,

An update is needed regardless, We are all throwing out crazy ideas but give us something just to settle the nerves!!!

Edited August 9, 2016 by UP 4000

[JSpencer]

Thanks for that, I knew somewhere Rapido weren't intending doing a dummy, but would still require a 2nd decoder if the coaches didn't have a harness to support it, and can't see Oxford Rail doing this.

Compared to the APT-E everybody is keeping a bit hush hush over this, about time a bit of clarification on what is going on is needed, It's now not a big secret about the HSDT, and speculation is getting a bit out of hand,

An update is needed regardless, We are all throwing out crazy ideas but give us something just to settle the nerves!!!

 

To be honest, I am sure that the NRM themselves are in the same boat. They may have originally thought to use Rapido for both locomotives and coaches. Then Oxfordrail announced their Mk3s which could mean some of the parts needing to be tooled might exist already. And maybe Hornby has a surprise looking at some speculative hints from the engine shed...

 

Personally I would prefer Rapido do the entire train, this ensures perfect colour match and they would almost certainly include lights that Oxfordrail almost certainly will not. Maybe Hornby will, IF they are also planning some (big IF).

From this we might deduce that the NRM are busy talking to all three manufacturers for the coaches, weighing up the pros and cons, the costs etc.

At the same time, the number of marketing possibilities are huge and variable. Some people want just the preserved power car, some the power car with full yellow end, some the entire train with 11 coaches, others the shorter test variants and so on. On the other hand many potential customers are equally undecided. An 11 coach train is huge, few people run such things...

 

I can pretty well understand why they are taking their time defining suitable and sell-able packages before stating anything. For the moment Rapido are doing the power cars and the rest will be stated later once they arrive at a conclusion to the marketing/manufacturing mess.

[uax6]

Could the answer to the coaches being something along the lines of Oxford rail doing the bodies, and Rapdio doing the underframes and interior details for the HSDT? That way the body tooling is saved, and Rapido can use the 'bodies in white' to make the HSDT coaches, the underframes can then have the loom wiring, and all the interior details that are craved, and then can be painted the same colour by Rapido....

 

Andy G

[HillsideDepot]

Could the answer to the coaches being something along the lines of Oxford rail doing the bodies, and Rapdio doing the underframes and interior details for the HSDT? That way the body tooling is saved, and Rapido can use the 'bodies in white' to make the HSDT coaches, the underframes can then have the loom wiring, and all the interior details that are craved, and then can be painted the same colour by Rapido....

 

Andy G

I don't think so as the doors, window frames and coach ends are all different on HSDT. The interior layouts were the same as the production sets, although the central partitions were solid on HSDT and glazed on the production versions.

I'm not sure about the idea of using 1 sound chip to work both power cars as I assume they work the same way as the production cars inasmuch as they don't respond exactly together and the rear one provides ETH (I stand to be corrected on that as I know trailer power provision is something which changed between prototype and production).

[lyneux]

Could the answer to the coaches being something along the lines of Oxford rail doing the bodies, and Rapdio doing the underframes and interior details for the HSDT? That way the body tooling is saved, and Rapido can use the 'bodies in white' to make the HSDT coaches, the underframes can then have the loom wiring, and all the interior details that are craved, and then can be painted the same colour by Rapido....

 

Andy G

 

That would take commercial collaboration to an extent that I suspect is very unlikely to happen!

 

Given Rapido's current newsletter (indicating capacity issues at their factory) I suspect it is unlikely that we will see these before 2018.

 

As for Hornby doing anything with the Mk3: this is extremely unlikely. They are in dire straits and have just had to raise £8m from a share placing to pay off their debts: cutting their product lines, not expanding them. Also, they have just flooded the market with Mk3s in the past 2 years (did you see how many were on sale this year for silly prices). It would be commercially foolish to re-tool as the demand is unlikely to be there.

[uax6]

I was thinking that they could just buy the bodies from Oxford, but as the ends etc are different, there's probably little point in this.

 

I think it would be a shame for Rapido not to do the whole thing, having things sourced from two different makes in the same train will really show the different standards....

 

Andy G