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Hello Mark

 

I have 63443.  It has not had a lot of use but earlier this year it started running slower than my other models and I realised that the motor was very hot - so hot I think it was in danger of damaging the surrounding plastic.

 

.but the motor really becomes hot in both analogue and digital mode. Mechanically, gear and wheels do not appear to block..

 

I am entirely analogue.  Trawling the net and RMweb leads to the conclusion that the motor is duff.  There is quite a bit of historic correspondence about Hornby using a lot of duff five pole motors around the time the model was produced.  In theory it should be possible to change the motor but to date I have not managed to source the requisite motor and worm.

 

Regards

 

Ray

Edited by Silver Sidelines
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 Were it not for the 'duff motor' information provided by many owners, I would have suggested an unreliable connection between pick ups and decoder on the loco as the most likely cause, as the symptom of sudden stop and then resumption of movement is typical of momentary power loss to the decoder.

 

There could of course be a poor connection, as well as a duff motor... (I don't truly trust the sprung plunger contacter that Hornby are now using to make the connections to the pick up wiper strips, although so far all have functioned well on my models with these.)

That's a real shame, I've often thought OO gauge locomotive static kits such as this would be useful, not only for those who want a model but not the expense of an RTR model for something that will sit on a shelf or be part of a static display, but also as shed/siding fillers.

 I think you have put your finger right on the reason why a cheaper construction kit duplicating a RTR loco is not attractive to a RTR manufacturer! But with ancient RTR models to be got s/h and such things as the 'Great British Locomotives' production, there's a fair choice of cheaper 'filler fodder' already available I should have thought?

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Just dropping by.... yes to the problems guardian has! Grr put it this way my first batch locomotive has/had some serious problems.

1 the lubricator would catch and cause issues with running, solution gently bend to the correct shape.

2 as with 34 the letter's comment above one of the sprung plungers didn't work so I "hot wired" around the problem by soldering the wire direct to the pick up strip. Quick in and out move with the soldering iron.

3 duff motor, well I have to agree with this one as mine got so hot I did think it was going to melt the body. Mine has calmed down now and I think the zimo sound decoder has a over load cut off which has saved the loco a few times. If any one knows when the motors become available I probably will change it over to see if the problems stop.

4 I have a gloss plastic spot on the boiler which I think may have been caused by the heat from the motor but it is a distance and not in direct contact with the motor. This one I really have no answer for!

 

Saying all oth the above I purchased a second run loco which has none of these problems! It makes me think I should have returned the first loco at the first problem!

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There could of course be a poor connection, as well as a duff motor...

Hm...I trust a poor connection of the plungers may cause a poor running, but probably may not cause the motor becoming that hot.

 

I have the impression that the motor has some interwinding short circuit which makes go - stop - and go again. I have seen this only once (in a Roco class 93.5, motor had to be replaced). May be the whole motor production batch used by Hornby was faulty.

 

I have returned my model to Hatton's now, let's see if the next model performs.

 

Cheers

Mark

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  • 1 year later...

Does anyone know what work would be required to backdate one of these into an NER T2? I wouldn’t plan to repaint one into NER green (I thought their freight engines were black anyway), just want to know what would be required beyond renunbering and rebranding. 

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Depends on which version you own ,

 

without checking

 

Add windjabber on chimney on LNER version

 

All have the wrong boiler, remove lubricator arm on offside , add pistons to cylinder ends

 

Q6 was always Black

 

There are other bits I am sure.

 

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As Mick says above, pretty much covering all the external details. The boiler is wrong for a pre-1938 loco, though the main differences are the dome, safety valve variations and the boiler bands being out of place (though not by a large amount)

 

I backdated mine into LNER condition, and that is detailed on my workbench, starting here

 

 

I didn't bother with the boiler bands, and it doesn't really show when it's trundling around on its own. Though that does bring into question why I modified the cab to remove the vacuum brake gear!

 

Hope this helps

 

Cheers

 

J

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On 5/8/2020 at 11:57 AM, ovbulleid said:

Does anyone know what work would be required to backdate one of these into an NER T2? I wouldn’t plan to repaint one into NER green (I thought their freight engines were black anyway), just want to know what would be required beyond renunbering and rebranding. 

 

The thing often overlooked is the fact that most of the Q6s were built with Schmidt superheaters. These  were the favoured option of the NER. These did not have the Gresley vacuum valve behind the chimney but had a manually operated valve on the left side of the  smokebox. This arrangement continued well into the 1930s and only changed when the superheaters were replaced by the Robinson style on new boilers. 

 

If you are returning your model to the NER period then some carried pyrometers to record superheater temperatures. these were visible on the left shoulder of the smokebox. A pipe dropped from here to below the handrail the horizontally to the cab.

 

ArthurK

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  • 3 years later...

My Q6 has started randomly slowing down and running hot. I see I am not the only one to have this problem, yet it looks like there's absolutely nothing I can do about it? New motors aren't available and I don't really fancy messing about jamming a different motor in a £100+ model.

 

Any suggestions?

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1 hour ago, nathan70000 said:

My Q6 has started randomly slowing down and running hot.

 

I'm well into double figures with Q6 that have been through my hands with problems. Only one so far has had a damaged motor.  I'd first check the wiring from the tender plug where it passes under the cab. All that I have seen have had the wiring squashed to varying degrees at this point. Try running the motor with a controlled 12v supply connected  directly to the motor terminals and see if it runs hot then.

 

HonrbyQ6--181-PwD-2023-EditSm.jpg.3eebbea5fdc9d633c9572d865c5e1dc0.jpg

 

If you still need to change the motor there are plenty that's available that can fit in the space. Not direct replacements but adaptations can be made using simple tools. Some latex tube and a 2mm ball bearing had this one sorted to make enough space for a smoke unit.

 

HonrbyQ6--189-PwD-2023-EditSm.jpg.b8a3ebcb4c44e77bbb6cd746b64cefe6.jpg

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Have a read here

 

I found a new motor on Ali Express for a knackered Q6. All good afterwards. I removed the flywheel off the useless Hornby motor by cutting the shaft between the Flywheel and motor . Then by heating the flywheel on a gas ring and pulling the shaft remnant off .

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  • 1 month later...
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On 29/08/2023 at 17:43, micklner said:

Have a read here

 

I found a new motor on Ali Express for a knackered Q6. All good afterwards. I removed the flywheel off the useless Hornby motor by cutting the shaft between the Flywheel and motor . Then by heating the flywheel on a gas ring and pulling the shaft remnant off .

Looks as though I might need a Q6 to undergo a motor change. That will teach me to give a good test run of all locos as I get them.

Was just about to install DCC Locoman sound in Q6s, and so did DC 'running in' first. Oh dear!

Q6 late 63395 runs well, with no speed drop off, and loco body a little warm after 1 hour running 🙂

Q6 early 63427 noticeable drop offs in speed, not smooth and loco body hot after 30 minutes 😡

Ran the two together, and 63427 slower.

Removed body from 63427 and ran again, motor was 'burny hot'.

 

Next test, was to run the motor of 63427 on it's own (cardan shaft and worm gear disconnected).

Motor was very hot after 5 minutes! And can hear speed changes.

 

I see there were spare motors on Hornby web site, but out of stock + expensive at £28.32

 

So looking at this one:

 

Alternativemotor.png.59be1e60f0db97cb270e06be6b7bdec2.png

I couldn't find one without the worm gear. So getting that off without damaging the motor is the first challenge, and then to transfer the flywheel. Well there is always a first time for everything. On the New modellers web site there are similar motors with a flywheel attached, but then no idea about motor size, and if the flywheel could accept the 'T' profile at the end of the cardan shaft.

If anyone has tried a combined motor / flywheel I would be grateful of suggestions. A shorter motor body length would be easier to adapt I reckon?

 

 

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9 hours ago, zr2498 said:

Looks as though I might need a Q6 to undergo a motor change. That will teach me to give a good test run of all locos as I get them.

Was just about to install DCC Locoman sound in Q6s, and so did DC 'running in' first. Oh dear!

Q6 late 63395 runs well, with no speed drop off, and loco body a little warm after 1 hour running 🙂

Q6 early 63427 noticeable drop offs in speed, not smooth and loco body hot after 30 minutes 😡

Ran the two together, and 63427 slower.

Removed body from 63427 and ran again, motor was 'burny hot'.

 

Next test, was to run the motor of 63427 on it's own (cardan shaft and worm gear disconnected).

Motor was very hot after 5 minutes! And can hear speed changes.

 

I see there were spare motors on Hornby web site, but out of stock + expensive at £28.32

 

So looking at this one:

 

Alternativemotor.png.59be1e60f0db97cb270e06be6b7bdec2.png

I couldn't find one without the worm gear. So getting that off without damaging the motor is the first challenge, and then to transfer the flywheel. Well there is always a first time for everything. On the New modellers web site there are similar motors with a flywheel attached, but then no idea about motor size, and if the flywheel could accept the 'T' profile at the end of the cardan shaft.

If anyone has tried a combined motor / flywheel I would be grateful of suggestions. A shorter motor body length would be easier to adapt I reckon?

 

 

I got a motor the same size , without a worm and much much cheaper via Ali Express on

 

https://laisdcc.aliexpress.com/store/2977030?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.f22d1802A61pjR

 

The motor on my Q6 was dead and was binned in due course. I never bothered trying to remove the flywheel. I simply cut the shaft off, behind the flywheel.

Place a piece of thin metal sheet on a gas ring, heated the flywheel theron and the remains of the shaft pulled out easily .

I then heated the flywheel again and pushed the shaft of the new motor into the flywheel. Ensure the gap between the flywheel and the motor are roughly the same. The Coupling will take up any small difference.

Allow to cool, job done.

 

Does anyone have a spare Hornby  Q6 Tender any type for sale please ?

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2 hours ago, micklner said:

I got a motor the same size , without a worm and much much cheaper via Ali Express on

 

https://laisdcc.aliexpress.com/store/2977030?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.f22d1802A61pjR

 

The motor on my Q6 was dead and was binned in due course. I never bothered trying to remove the flywheel. I simply cut the shaft off, behind the flywheel.

Place a piece of thin metal sheet on a gas ring, heated the flywheel theron and the remains of the shaft pulled out easily .

I then heated the flywheel again and pushed the shaft of the new motor into the flywheel. Ensure the gap between the flywheel and the motor are roughly the same. The Coupling will take up any small difference.

Allow to cool, job done.

 

Does anyone have a spare Hornby  Q6 Tender any type for sale please ?

Thanks very much for your help with this.

I have clicked on the link, and it takes me to a list. Then I went to motor listing.

Is this the one you are referring to + cut shaft off one end?

 

image.png.9b6ab9f430ad9ca772a73613914857e7.png

 

Must be my lucky day!!!!!

I contacted Hornby technical this morning about a spare motor / flywheel (speculative).

They are sending a spare, that was found in the workshop, FOC today.

This is an excellent service, which has always been good in the past. Well done Hornby tech services. 🙂

Edited by zr2498
Late info re Hornby
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Unfortunately this is one of the downsides of offshoring model production to China. The upside was a paradigm shift in fidelity to prototype and mechanical spec without paying a biblical increase in prices. The downside is that long term product support and availability of spares isn't what it once was. It's not a Hornby issue or even a British outline thing, it seems to be a common shared problem for most model companies (there are some exceptions).

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7 hours ago, NZRedBaron said:

Silly question maybe, but does anyone know what are the parts numbers for the smokebox door? I'm half thinking to get a Q6 and back-dating it to pre-war LNER condition, since there only seems to be BR era models for sale, that I can find.

Hornby do not sell main body parts. Dave Bradwell sells his excellent Q6 Castings.

 

https://traders.scalefour.org/DaveBradwell/

 

 

Edited by micklner
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10 hours ago, NZRedBaron said:

I'm half thinking to get a Q6 and back-dating it to pre-war LNER condition, since there only seems to be BR era models for sale, that I can find.

 

I've just counted 16, new & second hand, of the LNER liveried on ebay. Prices from sensible to ridiculous.

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29 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

I see no sensibly priced ones... 

 

I suppose it depends on our subjective definitions of of "sensible".  😉

 

Somebody once called me sensible; then reality dawned on them.

 

There was one at "Buy it now" for £90.00 earlier this afternoon. Seems to have gone now.

 

I managed to get a brand new BR version for £50.00 at the Jarrow show earlier in the year and then there was a £27.00 buy from ebay which was described as weathered & a runner. It did eventually run once I'd removed the paint from the tyres and replaced some crushed wiring. I think I may have spent another £25.00 on paint stripper though trying to remove whatever the "weathering" was.

 

It spends most of its time now plodding around South Pelaw.

 

 

This is how the body started out.

 

Q6-Hgate-Body-18-EditSm.jpg.a4a62f8812fefebbd7a245da1db43f96.jpg

 

P

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On 27/10/2023 at 10:51, micklner said:

Well done Hornby.

 

The motor appears to be the same one. The one I bought was the same size as the Hornby version . Its now in the loco , I probably removed the other shaft if it was needed at the time of fitting.

Very well done Hornby. Arrived this morning, and FOC!

 

DSC08625.JPG.c1909728f5d9d7412291a71a48525f81.JPG

 

Fitted, and ran for 1/2 hr at 50% = hardly warm, with smooth constant speed running 🙂

Now for the sound, stay alive, firebox flicker and working loco lamps.

Old motor must have been really hot, as needed to renew wiring to it. Under the motor, some insulation had melted through to bare wire.

 

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