RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted November 18, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2017 (edited) Is it lazy research, or they just can't be bothered? I had hoped that they'd at least get the buffers right for the Appleby Frodingham locos but they haven't and they've even forgot to put the Yorkshire plate on the ends! Not only that but the hole in the LH end of the valance is still present where it shouldn't be. And something that I don't think anyone has mentioned at all is how these models have the air intakes on only one end. It may be like that on the original single loco that they measured up for the first (NCB) model, which has preumably had modifications in service or preservation but when built they all had air intakes on each end. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-3/p1692913703-3.jpg Never mind, it's only an industrial loco, it's not like it's the Flying Scotsman or anything... Presumably people who care sufficiently about the detail will be prepared to undertake the modifications required on a loco which has been produced as a compromise between fidelity and economy and be glad they have something to work with rather than nothing? I saw one today at the Thornbury show and I thought it looked rather splendid. Just debating whether to wait for the sound-fitted version.. Edited November 18, 2017 by Gilbert 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Presumably people who care sufficiently about the detail will be prepared to undertake the modifications required on a loco which has been produced as a compromise between fidelity and economy and be glad they have something to work with rather than nothing? I saw one today at the Thornbury show and I thought it looked rather splendid. Just debating whether to wait for the sound-fitted version.. That's not the point though. Sure you can source the correct buffers and spend time hacking parts of the bodywork out to put the air intakes in anf fill holes that shouldn't be there but you shouldn't have to. If a RTR manufacturer stuck the wrong buffers on a Brush Type 4, or a GWR Castle, or anything else that isn't an industrial loco, there'd be uproar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Midland Mole Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 (edited) ....they've even forgot to put the Yorkshire plate on the ends! I have seen at least two photos of the locos in this livery without the Yorkshire plates on, so technically that is a correct detail for some of them. I could post one on here but don't know the name of the photographer and don't want to get in trouble with copyright/reproduction blah blah blah.... Alex Edit: And how can you seriously get so worked up about some very minor details on a beautifully realised model being offered to us at a very reasonable price. If this was a loco by Hornby, being sold for around £120-130, then I might be able to understand your problem with it. As it is though, not at all. Edited November 18, 2017 by Midland Mole Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
25901 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 (edited) Here's a link to a nice pic from a nice gentleman http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/industriallocomotive/h641942e1#h641942e1 Edited November 18, 2017 by 25901 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Midland Mole Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 (edited) I found the two pictures, both of which are sans plates: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69947186@N08/8375475173/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/69947186@N08/6382227353 Alex Edited November 18, 2017 by Midland Mole Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 (edited) I have seen at least two photos of the locos in this livery without the Yorkshire plates on, so technically that is a correct detail for some of them. I could post one on here but don't know the name of the photographer and don't want to get in trouble with copyright/reproduction blah blah blah.... Alex Edit: And how can you seriously get so worked up about some very minor details on a beautifully realised model being offered to us at a very reasonable price. If this was a loco by Hornby, being sold for around £120-130, then I might be able to understand your problem with it. As it is though, not at all. There's an increasing amount of this sort of thing - people who seem to be apologists for poor research or quality in ready-to-run models. I have pointed out various errors that professional modelmakers really ought to have spotted, it's hardly getting "worked up". The price doesn't come into it as it costs no more to get the details right as it does to get them wrong. Oh and by the way, none of the photos you've linked to show No.5 without plates. Of course that's not to say that it hasn't run without them at some time but as most of them do have the plates, including the photo of No.5 that I linked to, which is the subject of this particular model, it would have been better to have them on. Edited November 18, 2017 by Ruston Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted November 18, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2017 (edited) Well I bought two, given Hornbys announcements of Oxford, there’s a good chance once there gone, there gone for a while. £93 at Sawyers, £92+p&p at Hereford, £95 +p&p at MRD. Box shifters are flying high on this one Apologies to Alex above (I see they are £95+p&p), so it’s worth shopping round, and regardless minor details I don’t think these will be around long, now who makes a YEC plate in 00 ? Edited November 19, 2017 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 ... Apologies to Alex above (I see they are £95+p&p), so it’s worth shopping round, and regardless minor details I don’t think these will be around long, now who makes a YEC plate in 00 ? Narrow Planet can do the plates (I ordered some a couple of months ago together with name and works plates for several other industrials). I was planning ahead as far as the Janus is concerned, because I ordered the Port of London one, which isn't out yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpplumy Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Narrow planet does sets for them now Well I bought two, given Hornbys announcements of Oxford, there’s a good chance once there gone, there gone for a while. £93 at Sawyers, £92+p&p at Hereford, £95 +p&p at MRD. Box shifters are flying high on this one Apologies to Alex above (I see they are £95+p&p), so it’s worth shopping round, and regardless minor details I don’t think these will be around long, now who makes a YEC plate in 00 ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpplumy Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 And a terrible claim to fame but I sent narrow planet the drawings for the plates lol. Had the first set made for my o gauge janus 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted November 19, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2017 There's an increasing amount of this sort of thing - people who seem to be apologists for poor research or quality in ready-to-run models. I have pointed out various errors that professional modelmakers really ought to have spotted, it's hardly getting "worked up". The price doesn't come into it as it costs no more to get the details right as it does to get them wrong. Oh and by the way, none of the photos you've linked to show No.5 without plates. Of course that's not to say that it hasn't run without them at some time but as most of them do have the plates, including the photo of No.5 that I linked to, which is the subject of this particular model, it would have been better to have them on. I think it is simply down to the individual to set their own criteria for quality - it can relate to running, finish, fidelity and is probably also relative to cost - and then purchase or not - my criteria might also include ease of fitting sound or how well a kadee will work when fitted - to others the accuracy of buffers may be a pass/fail test on the "do I buy?" decision. Similar criteria may feature in the manufacturers "do I produce such and such a model" assessment possibly after research has been carried out and production options evaluated? Any experts out there?. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoholic Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Has anyone run the BSC version? Is the motor wired the right way round this time, and what is the flywheel situation? I think it's a pretty good model - the various omissions and inaccuracies are minor and fairly easily rectified. I do wonder about the louvres on the bodyside, though. Would it be possible to replace them with etched ones, to make the bodyside look less solid? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted November 19, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2017 Narrow planet does sets for them now Thanks very much, two sets ordered. I’lllook to renumber one of them, the “5” in blue is an unusual font, but I have some old NSE blue BR numbers from Replica I may try to size up as an alternative, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Midland Mole Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) My to-do list for the BSC version: Fit Legomanbiffo sound Modify and add driver Fill in coupling holes and repaint wasp stripes Remove numbers and Scunthorpe Works lettering Add nameplates and Yorkshire plates from NP Lightly weather It should end up being a pretty nice generic BSC shunter. Alex Edited November 19, 2017 by Midland Mole 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted November 19, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 19, 2017 Is it lazy research, or they just can't be bothered? I had hoped that they'd at least get the buffers right for the Appleby Frodingham locos but they haven't and they've even forgot to put the Yorkshire plate on the ends! Not only that but the hole in the LH end of the valance is still present where it shouldn't be. And something that I don't think anyone has mentioned at all is how these models have the air intakes on only one end. It may be like that on the original single loco that they measured up for the first (NCB) model, which has preumably had modifications in service or preservation but when built they all had air intakes on each end. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-3/p1692913703-3.jpg Never mind, it's only an industrial loco, it's not like it's the Flying Scotsman or anything... We have plenty of Yorkshire and BTH plates to sell. Judith Edge kits 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted November 19, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 19, 2017 Saw and heard one running on DC kits stand at Wakefield yesterday. Excellent model, looking forward to mine arriving. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted November 19, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) That's not the point though. Sure you can source the correct buffers and spend time hacking parts of the bodywork out to put the air intakes in anf fill holes that shouldn't be there but you shouldn't have to. If a RTR manufacturer stuck the wrong buffers on a Brush Type 4, or a GWR Castle, or anything else that isn't an industrial loco, there'd be uproar. I must confess that I did find Alex's cartoon, reproduced from the magazine, most apposite in a general sense (although this comment most certainly not aimed at you or anyone else on this forum Dave), as I hadn't seen it before. I suspect you are more like the chap on the left, which is where I like to think of myself, although right at this very moment, I am like the chap on the right, simply because I am 'on line', albeit without any steam blowing out of my ears and with a perfectly amiable expression on my face (had enough steam blowing out of the iron earlier this morning, one of my additional chores that prevent any modelling being attempted at the moment, due to CTMK having injured her hand a few days ago). In view of your last comment, though, it might be helpful to draw attention to some 'issues' with a main line class of loco, specifically the Bachmann 64XX pannier tank, where deficiencies in the bodywork are causing me to have to consider replacing parts etc., when I eventually get around to converting it to a 74XX): - chimney narrows slightly towards the top, shouldn't do this, should at least be parallel - no hand rail on the footplate above the front foot steps - missing rivets from the footplate (Archers to the rescue) - unsprung buffers, which have no foot step on the top of them (Maygib and a bit of brass to the rescue in this case) - auto gear moulded on, on the front and rear buffer beams. I could say 'surely Bachmann would anticipate folk wanting to convert these to a 74XX and could have made them easier to remove?' I would like to thank two friends in particular (they know who they are!), for helping me identify the above issues with the 64XX. As far as I know, there's been no furore over the 64XX models, and the above issues are of a nature that many folk may well be happy to live with. As for the 'Janus', I still haven't got one, but I'm more inclined to get one as time goes by, than not, if for no other reason than it provides another industrial loco in my roster. It is a bit big for my needs, so I would probably not have bought a kit one, preferring smaller prototypes, so I'm happy to go with it in this case. Edited November 19, 2017 by Captain Kernow 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted November 19, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2017 Well I bought two, given Hornbys announcements of Oxford, there’s a good chance once there gone, there gone for a while. I do apologise for being a bit thick here, but I can't find any obvious reference to an announcement of this nature? Would someone mind elaborating, please, or perhaps pointing me in the right direction? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) I do apologise for being a bit thick here, but I can't find any obvious reference to an announcement of this nature? Would someone mind elaborating, please, or perhaps pointing me in the right direction? Thanks. See post 3302 in this thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/108082-hornbys-financial-updates-to-the-stock-market/page-133 Hornby have acquired a majority shareholding in the owners of Oxford - anything more than that is pure speculation. If it ultimately means Oxford Rail gets merged in with Hornby I do not see how that affects the Janus; obvious issues with Adams Radial and Dean Goods but if Hornby were to breath on the range then that can be only be to the better. Edited November 19, 2017 by Butler Henderson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 And something that I don't think anyone has mentioned at all is how these models have the air intakes on only one end. It may be like that on the original single loco that they measured up for the first (NCB) model, which has preumably had modifications in service or preservation but when built they all had air intakes on each end. . Something I wondered but then I did a bit of research and found a few pictures of air intakes only at one end. Just a couple from Mr Bartlett. http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/industriallocomotive/e2081e2a1 http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/industriallocomotive/e50d55ce 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted November 19, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 19, 2017 How do you know that they are only on one end? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Something I wondered but then I did a bit of research and found a few pictures of air intakes only at one end. Just a couple from Mr Bartlett. The air intakes are there. They are under the hinged lid. The question is are there any intakes on the opposing bonnet? P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roddy Angus Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 The air intakes are there. They are under the hinged lid. The question is are there any intakes on the opposing bonnet? P Why would they put a hinged lid over air intakes? Would it not be more sensible to have them open to the air? Enclosing the air intakes would reduce the power and efficiency of the engine. The minimum they would have are louvers in the lid so that the air would get to the intakes. Regards Roddy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpplumy Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Some did have hinged lids in the air intakes. But usually this was on both or neither of the bonnets. Why would they put a hinged lid over air intakes? Would it not be more sensible to have them open to the air? Enclosing the air intakes would reduce the power and efficiency of the engine. The minimum they would have are louvers in the lid so that the air would get to the intakes. Regards Roddy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) Why would they put a hinged lid over air intakes? Would it not be more sensible to have them open to the air? Enclosing the air intakes would reduce the power and efficiency of the engine. The minimum they would have are louvers in the lid so that the air would get to the intakes. Cough.. Cough. HPIM2213b by Allegheny1633, on Flickr They look like Oil bath air filter housings to me but maybe the question we should be asking is are they Engine Air intakes? Maybe ICI Janus where one offs. They had hinged cover on one bonnet only. It as identifiable by the handrail. The other bonnet had nothing. https://flic.kr/p/bf44pc P Edited November 19, 2017 by Porcy Mane 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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