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Oxford Diecast/Golden Valley - YE Janus 0-6-0DE


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I don't suppose you (or anyone else) happens to know what colour the brake vans were?

 

Edit: on the assumption that, if nothing else, it will match the livery of the wagons, I've found a red Bachmann Toad-E (split, I think, from the 'Jack the Saddle Tank' trainset) that will do very nicely - especially once I add the letters 'P L A' to the sides!

 

Good news about the PLA Janus. As a fan of the East London railways, I've been anticipating this one for months.

 

There's a photo here showing a PLA brake van: https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/5929510697. Unfortunately I don't know enough about brake vans to identify it. Also of interest (to me at least) are the mineral wagons in the background carrying crates.

 

I mentioned this on the thread about Hornby's Pecketts, but in 1954 the PLA loaned a few Austerities from the War Department, including at least two in Longmoor Military Railway livery, so that's an extra ready-to-run loco for those wanting to bulk their fleet up.

Yes, LMR 106, LMR 108, WD 136 and WD 142 - please all interested follow up my requests to Hornby (Product suggestion) and DJModels to produce at least one!   My preferences were for 106 in lined LMR blue (worked at Longmoor, Royals and Marchwood) and 136 in unlined WD green (worked at Bicester, Royals and Bramley).     

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I don't suppose you (or anyone else) happens to know what colour the brake vans were?

 

Edit: on the assumption that, if nothing else, it will match the livery of the wagons, I've found a red Bachmann Toad-E (split, I think, from the 'Jack the Saddle Tank' trainset) that will do very nicely - especially once I add the letters 'P L A' to the sides!

Oh, the PLA rolling stock is worthy of its own  thread!!!   In the PLA diesel days of going for meetings at the Royals I never saw a brake van.   However, I have just spent a week of digitalising all the remaining of the PLA's own railway views that were worth saving when its Photographic Section was 'privatised' in the 1970s!   I have found and 'blown-up' a third view of a brake van in a train which confirmed the fleet number series as being 1001-1006.   Paul mentioned the LNER Toad B as being similar.   Certainly I agree that the version with the flat roofed ducket could be identical or very close.   I only assume they were four wheeled and not six, purely because of the lack of photographic evidence.   Parkside produce a kit for this and with Hornby's imminent release one needs to double check that the ducket roofs are flat.   As to livery, Paul's website as a colour view of a PLA ex-BR Palvan on the Bluebell.   With its white PLA letters the main livery appears to be the PLA red and similar to that on the triple pack of PLA wagons (note my earlier comment on these).   So beware using a Toad E because of the ducket shape.   I am always available off-line for going off thread!!!

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Lovely photo.   Mine has also arrived.   Four years ago I had been told by GVH that when the PLA decorated example was available I would get to see and comment.   So at last here is my comment!!!   The blue is just as I observed them in the raw and the decoration is correct.   The handrails were in fact painted white so the model has to have grubby ones!!!   Not to worry they can be painted white!   If further PLA 'Janus' locos are required from the 200-209 series, I suggest contacting Narrow Planet to see if they can reproduce replicas with the number required.   Or if you want to be different how about painting out the roundel and then lettering in the original style when 200 was delivered to Tilbury as per the attached views of either end.

 

 

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From the above photos of PLA 200 the different style of end handrails incorporating the headlight used on all the PLA machines stands out.   I mentioned the white handrails when new (and ex-works) but as time went on some were painted blue.   So it depends on how particular you want to be.   Courtesy of the Musgrave family, I have the attached showing Royals' Driver Musgrave (with a Head Shunter) in 1954 with hired green WD 142 behind him and then with him proudly standing on his 'bulled-up' new charge - what a comparison!   With the diesels the loco crew just numbered two - Driver and Shunter.   Now here is pictured a Head Shunter who most probably was passed for Guard duty on the inter-dock transfer trains within the Royals where steep grades were to be found between the Victoria dock and the Albert and George docks.   Enjoy.    

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I don't suppose you (or anyone else) happens to know what colour the brake vans were?

 

Edit: on the assumption that, if nothing else, it will match the livery of the wagons, I've found a red Bachmann Toad-E (split, I think, from the 'Jack the Saddle Tank' trainset) that will do very nicely - especially once I add the letters 'P L A' to the sides!

Yes, the same colour as the wagons red oxide.

You can see one and a Janus in this video from 1.50 min

 

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Lovely photo.   Mine has also arrived.   Four years ago I had been told by GVH that when the PLA decorated example was available I would get to see and comment.   So at last here is my comment!!!   The blue is just as I observed them in the raw and the decoration is correct.   The handrails were in fact painted white so the model has to have grubby ones!!!   Not to worry they can be painted white!   If further PLA 'Janus' locos are required from the 200-209 series, I suggest contacting Narrow Planet to see if they can reproduce replicas with the number required.   Or if you want to be different how about painting out the roundel and then lettering in the original style when 200 was delivered to Tilbury as per the attached views of either end.

 

 

 

 

 

The handrails on this prototype example appear to be black: they are definitely darker than the main body colour.

 

It just goes to show that, for modelling purposes, just about anything goes! :)

Edited by SRman
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Photo of 206 above quite clearly is pre warning strips meaning the blurb offered for the Oxford model of 201 being in it's brand new delivered livery is plainly from cloud cuckoo land.

No, the model is not in 'brand new' condition.   It is based on a later period

 

Yes, the same colour as the wagons red oxide.

You can see one and a Janus in this video from 1.50 min

 

Very many thanks for this piece of film.   The Janus's markings are in the original style before the decision to revert to using the steam loco style roundels.   Most interesting is the brake van.   Clearly there were two versions, the 'single ended platform' as in the film and the 'double ended platform' as in the photo with the diesel (with the link above).   As the view I have with a number only shows a little of it with a platform so no indication as to whether there was a platform at the other end.   So we must keep looking! 

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Photo of 206 above quite clearly is pre warning strips meaning the blurb offered for the Oxford model of 201 being in it's brand new delivered livery is plainly from cloud cuckoo land.

As far as I am aware from the data provided originally, that of the many livery differences in the life of the PLA Janus's the one chosen was definitely not 'brand one'.   The model's condition was intended to reflect the period when the roundel was introduced.   I suspect it was at that time that PLA 206 was possibly used to test a different hue of blue.   I attach a view of PLA 203 in later years at the Royals with either a white or yellow buffer beam.   So the model does lend itself to some individuality if you want more than one.    

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How about making a PLA building within which to maintain your PLA Janus? With unification in 1909 of the London dock groups by the time the diesels were introduced in 1959, centralisation of loco sheds to one for each of the three rail systems had been reached. Heavy maintenance of the steamers had been done 'down the road' at Harland & Woolf's premises with minor work done in-shed. The diesels' maintenance regime being so different that the PLA constructed purpose built workshops with the loco sheds becoming stabling points. So I attach the views I have of the new workshops. The first is at Royals and was at Custom House but not adjacent to the loco shed. The second is at Tilbury and shows the new workshop to the left adjacent to the loco shed. Finally, I attach a November 1969 aerial view showing how part of the exchange sidings became the present Tilbury Rail Container Terminal. The residue sidings to the right and the lines that radiate beyond handled the last regular PLA rail service for the daily John Cockerill Antwerp service at the Tidal Basin berths requiring 24/7 rail operation. Both Cockerill Line and the PLA rail operation ceased the following year.

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Now for something slightly O/T!!!   How about decorating the Dapol unpainted RTR 'merchandise' open wagons into PLA red livery for the PLA Janus?   Herewith some sample numbers.   Unless stated otherwise, the PLA lettering used the second and third planks down from the top while the numbers were at the left hand end of the lowest plank line above the floor.   I have not ventured into the positions of door knockers and strips but the examples shown are not far off!   Needless-to-say that a central door knocker strip was usually parallel on the right of the upright of the L.

 

Dapol A001   Royals 278, 303, 321,339, 340, 619, 872, 876, 887, 895, 931 and 942.     Tilbury 468 (note A) and 549 (note A).

                  

Dapol A005   Royals 216, 243 and 509 (note B).     Tilbury 1390.

                      

Dapol A015   Royals 454 (note A).     Tilbury 722.

 

Notes - A = 'PLA' over second, third and fourth planks down from top.     B = 'PLA' over first, second and third planks down from top with the number on the third plank down.

 

I attach views of the different wagon types also covering the differing positions of 'PLA'.   These wagons could only be used for internal operations.   There were two primary uses.   Distribution of coal for steam powered plant, heating, etc.   In the diesel era the greatest use of coal was to keep the staff warm!!!   Transhipment cargo transfer between sheds when vans were not suitable for the load.   Tarpaulins had to be provided where essential - PLA management were very claims conscious!   Enjoy.  

                    

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Tom, that looks great.   And is the blue Austerity to which it is coupled, also a PLA loco, please?   Kind regards, Colin.

 

Many thanks. The red came out rather brighter than expected, so I might tone that down with a bit more weathering. I also need to do something about that awful plastic coal load.

 

 The Austerity is actually the version Hornby did in Longmoor livery a few years back, which I dug out to act as backup to my Janus (which incidentally arrived this weekend - I am most pleased with it). It's not one of the ones actually loaned to the PLA. My justification is that since my layout will be set in a fictional part of the docks, it follows that the docks are larger in the world of my layout, so the PLA borrowed an extra loco.

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Tom, I am not surprised that the PLA did not hire further WD steamers at that time.   However, pressure to review the railway operations in the light of changes to road haulage licensing, brought lorry parks and railway dieselisation into the equation.   Whereas the diesels were all sold on as with most of the Austerities, I learned too late that the Bluebell had sort to acquire one of the steamers that went to scrap.   I returned to PLA at the start of 1960 and very shortly after joined the Perway gang on the Bluebell.   Had I known then of the Bluebell's interest then I would have done my best behind the scenes.   It was not until the 1970s when trawling through the past Board Minutes that I came across the refusal to sell to them.   It is thanks to the NCB that one PLA steamer has survived at Embsay.   Interestingly as a result of the ending of PLA rail operations at Tilbury, the lorry parks there became redundant and one of my first tasks there was to find alternative and remunerative uses for them!!!    

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Whilst on the subject of Royal and Tilbury Docks, I found a draft article I had written for Chris Ellis to put in "Model Trains" if sufficient interest was shown in  my article he published on "The Millwall Circle" in 1982.   This item was to introduce Royal and Tilbury as a layout basis.   Entitled "Animation in London's Dockland" the draft has the attached view of some of the illustrations.   Photos 1, 3, 4 and 5 were taken within the Royals and the those at 2 show PLA staff unloading a boat train from St.Pancras at the then newly built Tilbury Docks station at No.1 Berth.   Another challenge to model!

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My final comment on PLA wagons in the Royal Docks is that from its early years the PLA decided that wagons allocated specifically to the Engineering Department would be painted white with lettering and numbering in black.   The only photo I have of such a numbered vehicle is a 3 plank 'dropside' one.   However, I have attached a view of an unusual 'merchandise' one for which the number is unknown.   So I recommend it as a livery variation for the Dapol A005 unpainted wagon to which a top plank can be added all round to complete.

 

Although I have views of individual PLA covered vans none can be made from the Dapol unpainted RTR range.   So I have also attached a general view of a diesel hauled Royals train showing various styles of vans which can be constructed from kits.   Alas I do not know the number ranges of them. 

 

  

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My final comment on PLA railways is to thank those who responded to the data that Paul Bartlett and I provided. In particular to Black Marlin for proving there were at least two types of PLA brake van and to Honest Tom for his superb rendition of PLA 454. From both this Janus thread and that for the Hornby Peckett, there were 24 individuals who kindly acknowledged. So if anyone wants more information and photos (or even to set up a PLA Railway Group) please email me direct. Kind regards (and 'keep shunting') Colin.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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The Allied Wire and Steel version has arrived according to Hattons.

 

Owen

Further news received from Hatton's today :

 

'Golden Valley Hobbies GV2020 YEC Janus 0-6-0DE shunter "Richard Borrett" in ICI maroon £80.00

 

Our latest information from the supplier suggests this item will arrive with us between August 2018 & September 2018.'

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

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  • 4 weeks later...

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