Harbledown Railroad Heritage Line (Wisconsin Central)

[long island jack]

I hope you've not got any tight radius, with short couplings and those steps on the coaches, they may foul on the curves, looks like your going to have to use the supplied Kadee boxes fixed to the body, if so you could just move a #5 back a tad.

[Chris116]

2 minutes ago, long island jack said:

I hope you've not got any tight radius, with short couplings and those steps on the coaches, they may foul on the curves, looks like your going to have to use the supplied Kadee boxes fixed to the body, if so you could just move a #5 back a tad.

The sharpest curves are the points and on the two locos sadly there is no room to move the box back.

[F-UnitMad]

1 hour ago, Chris116 said:

still have a long way to go before I have learnt to speak American Railroad! 

I 'm pretty sure that somewhere on RMweb* there was a list drawn up of "U.S. vs U.K. terminology". It's similar to 'automobile-vs-car' terms - i.e. Extensive!!!

The general rule of thumb is that if we in the UK have a name for something, the US name will be different!!

 

*Edit - found it - 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by F-UnitMad
Added link.

[Regularity]

4 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

if we in the UK have a name for something, the US name will be different

Welfare state: socialism.

[Chris116]

My American wife insists that we spell words with too many letters (colour, flavour, etc) and then calls a "lift" an "elevator"!

[Chris116]

Well my first time as a seller on eBay has ended with a good result for my bank balance and three Rivarossi Illinois Central passenger cars on their way north to a new home. 

 

Trouble is four more freight cars have been bought and now I am confused. I already have a number of cars described as "Box Car". The new ones look the same to me but are described as "Reefer".

 

Can someone please tell me what is the difference in US usage?

 

Many thanks in advance for any help you can give.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Chris116
Spelling Mistakes!

[F-UnitMad]

15 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

I already have a number of cars described as "Box Car". The new ones look the same to me but are described as "Reefer".

A Reefer is a Refridgerated Boxcar; i.e. for perishable, chilled & frozen foodstuffs. Older types (pre-1960s-ish) were cooled by blocks of ice, and had hatches in the roof at either end to drop the ice in. Mechanical reefers have a donkey engine in one end, with vents in the bodyside at that end, and fuel tanks underneath. Very modern reefers have the engine exposed. Tbey look similar to the engine on the front of refridgerated road trailers.

[Chris116]

Well I finally found my mojo and have spent part of the evening making the replacement platforms that will switch the layout between US and UK. The green low level platform bases will need colouring with a facing of brickwork. This will mean they can be swapped easily.

 

The hedge on the US platform hides a step down behind it which means the lower bits of the trees to be planted behind the hedge will be slightly lower than than would have been the case.

 

The three UK buildings will have suitably placed fencing and signs so that the central building is the main station building with the other two being the offices and a cafe. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Chris116

[Chris116]

A bit more work on the layout with a change of mind on the position of the trees which are now in front of the hedge. The rear part of the platform area will be an earth flower bed with the trees while the area used by passengers will be tarmac/concrete /paving depending on which I think looks most believable for a US railroad of the type I am attempting to portray. 

 

In other news I was going through a box that I thought was British outline stock and found nine more US freight stock boxes, a mixture of box cars and grain hoppers. I think I now have enough to either run 40ft or 60ft cars and not have to mix them during an operating session. I will have to find out which era the three 50ft cars fit into best! 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Hi Chris, I do rather like that Silverado Depot - nice touch to top it off with some spare Metcalfe Ridge tiles (the sort of thing I would never think of).   It’s interesting seeing both the card and plastic kits as alternatives in the same setting - makes for an informative comparison.

 

Enjoying following your progress - you’re getting on with it a lot faster than I am with mine, Keith.

[Chris116]

Thank you for your kind words Keith. The inspiration for the ridge tiles came from a photo I saw on the net of a disused station building somewhere in the USA. The sheet of ridge tiles came from the the Crofters Cottage kit that is part of the UK station. I just wish I could find the photo again as it had lots of other details I could perhaps make use of!

 

I still have to decide how high the UK platform is going to be. My current thinking is something midway between a modern UK platform and ground level. I originally intended to have a ground level platform but the coaches I will be using will not be suitable for that so something higher will be required. 

 

I hope I will get chance today to do some work on the UK station and once I am happy both stations are truly interchangeable then I will start track laying.

[Chris116]

Not happy with how things have gone on the UK platform front but I will work it out and hopefully soon. 

 

Having studied the freight stock I have, I have decided that the SOO line GP7 and the Milwaukee Road GP9M will be used with the 40ft stock while the Wisconsin Central SW1500 and GP38-2 will haul the 50ft and 60ft stock. I hope that does not go against real life too much but I am sure one of you can find the holes in the idea and set me on the right course if I have got it wrong. 

[F-UnitMad]

15 hours ago, Chris116 said:

Having studied the freight stock I have, I have decided that the SOO line GP7 and the Milwaukee Road GP9M will be used with the 40ft stock while the Wisconsin Central SW1500 and GP38-2 will haul the 50ft and 60ft stock. I hope that does not go against real life too much but I am sure one of you can find the holes in the idea and set me on the right course if I have got it wrong. 

Some key dates help as a rough guide.

The Soo GP7 was most likely painted white & red in the mid 1960s. Depending on which number it is, it could have stayed like that into the mid-90s. No idea of the Milwaukee loco, but after 1985 if the Soo Line kept it (having taken over the Milwaukee that year) they might have 'patched' it or repainted it. Again depends on road number.

Roofwalks on boxcars were outlawed in the early 1970s. 40ft cars without roofwalks were in service after that, possibly into the early '80s, I'm not sure. 

Wisconsin Central was formed in 1987, so would definitely not have pulled roofwalk-fitted, 40ft stock.

 

So your general grouping is ok, except that your Soo & Milwaukee locos are also suitable for your later rolling stock.

[Chris116]

@F-UnitMad Thank you for your very helpful response. 

 

The SOO Line GP7, 378, is an Atlas model and the Milwaukee Road GP9M, 974, is a Walthers model. The 40ft cars have roofwalks so will not be used with the Wisconsin Central locos. I have found two of my 50ft cars have roofwalks so they will be moved into my earlier time line. 

 

The layout would be too full to use more than two locos so keeping them apart fits quite well. In a similar way I have two steam locos and two sets of coaches for the heritage passenger service and only one train set would be used in an operating session although it will not be fixed as to which steam train is used with which freight time line. 

 

Once again many thanks for your help. 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

3 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

Some key dates help as a rough guide.

The Soo GP7 was most likely painted white & red in the mid 1960s. Depending on which number it is, it could have stayed like that into the mid-90s. No idea of the Milwaukee loco, but after 1985 if the Soo Line kept it (having taken over the Milwaukee that year) they might have 'patched' it or repainted it. Again depends on road number.

Roofwalks on boxcars were outlawed in the early 1970s. 40ft cars without roofwalks were in service after that, possibly into the early '80s, I'm not sure. 

Wisconsin Central was formed in 1987, so would definitely not have pulled roofwalk-fitted, 40ft stock.

 

So your general grouping is ok, except that your Soo & Milwaukee locos are also suitable for your later rolling stock.

While I agree roofwalks were to be outlawed in the early 1970s, I believe the date shifted, so while 1974 can (I think) be quoted, I also understand there was an extension until 1983 for their final removal.

 

In this case I don’t think it changes the plan - just a bit more background (assuming my research is correct).  Keith.

[F-UnitMad]

Yes it's not as if on Dec 31st 1974 cars had roofwalks and by 2nd Jan 1975 they'd all disappeared!!

Same with stock liveries - cars can be seen in the colours of 'Fallen Flag' railroads many years after the railroad closed down or was taken over.

[Chris116]

I spent part of this evening getting the US station looking more like the finished article should do. I still have the flower bed under the trees to get to look like a flower bed instead of some boarding that was left over after the lounge had a new wood floor which the green stuff the station has been built on was a form of underlay. I am fairly pleased with how it has gone although the pictures do show up a few things that will need improving on in due course. 

[Regularity]

That’s very high platform: rural areas rarely had raised platforms for passengers, unless there is a specific prototype example you are following.

[Chris116]

The platform is a scale 30 inches high which is similar to the platform on the Strasburg Railroad which is the line I am basing my fictional line on. I had to make it that high as the Silverado Station building has to be on the base due to using the layout for both US and UK. The UK station will have a normal height platform for a station built in the 1890's.

 

The rest of the layout will not have any buildings as they would also have to be replaceable depending on what stock I was running. 

 

I have some more work to get the US station looking semi finished and then work will start on the UK station unless I change my mind again and do the track laying before the alternative station. 

[F-UnitMad]

The Strasburg depot does have a platform, yes, but I doubt if it's that high. Look at the height compared to the coach steps. Anything higher would make those steps difficult to use safely.

[Chris116]

1 hour ago, F-UnitMad said:

The Strasburg depot does have a platform, yes, but I doubt if it's that high. Look at the height compared to the coach steps. Anything higher would make those steps difficult to use safely.

The steps on the Strasburg depot look to me as if they are about six inches above the platform. The Harbledown platform is level with the bottom step so my platform is a little high so I may put a thin sheet of card under the track on the platform road to get nearer to the effect in your picture. Thank you to @Regularity for bringing this up and to @F-UnitMad for the photo which makes the height of the platform much easier to see than the VRF camera ever could. With little steps I am gradually getting towards the goal of a US based layout.

 

In fact raising the track will make the UK station easier to get to the height that I want so a double win with raising the track through the platform. 

[Chris116]

 

The UK side of the layout is now in a new thread "Building Elmstone Heritage Railway" so people who are only interested in UK modelling can follow what they are interested in. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Chris116
Explanation of the new thread.

[F-UnitMad]

Here's an alternative for your stations which might make things easier to swap between US & UK.

Sometimes US Depot buildings were built on a raised foundation, as your kit seems to be. The platform, however, was still kep at around ground level. Here's a screenshot from google maps of the depot at the Stewartstown RR, Pennsylvania. The building is quite raised up, but the platform is low....

It strikes me that the easiest way to interchange your stations is to have the area footprint of the UK platform marked on the board, and finished as a very low platform for the US mode, and the US Depot just sits on that; for UK mode the platform & buildings are put in place, on top of the US platform. 

For what it's worth, I'd like to carry on seeing the UK side of things in this thread too; there aren't many 'multi-mode' layouts around for one thing.

[Chris116]

More very useful comments @F-UnitMad but sadly the two stations have been built on bases that are the same size. I will however put everything about the layout in both guises on this thread as I have done up until now. The UK only bits will also be put on the "Building Elmstone Heritage Railway" thread as well.

[Chris116]

Last night I started on the UK platform. I laid the tarmac but then when I was about to start the paving found that my supply of suitable glue had run out. So much for having a spare as I discovered I was using the spare!  Looks like the next planned essential shopping trip to get milk will also have to find some glue! The photos show the basic platform with my two J70s from Model Rail. The buildings are not fixed and will not be until I have sorted out exactly where the pathways, flower beds and tress will fit in. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Chris116