Harbledown Railroad Heritage Line (Wisconsin Central)

[PaulRhB]

Is your 4-5ft the absolute limit or just the space that's permanently free? I ask simply because you could have temporary drop down spurs to give a longer headshunt or extra boards that just clip in when running it and could stack on top or underneath.

Martyn's question about making it a module is well worth considering even if it has side extensions to do this that add a road or buildings to each side.

As Martyn said the stock is a bit old but at least the flatcar could be weathered down and not look out of place. The shorty cement cars and tank cars are worth looking up though and you don't have to pay a fortune as there are decent budget ranges such as those by Atlas.

My Sunnydale Industrial Park uses three 5x1ft boards with very spartan track but it's fun to switch.

I started out with a CNW Gp50 and forty foot cars too so another guilty of enthusiasm beating me to research

Have a look at Model Jcn at Slough and see what you like, post the description and no doubt people will be able to suggest the best ones.

http://www.modeljunction.info/estore/index.php?cPath=25_29_70&osCsid=1l151r5f4vmpk0tbshmpq466e7

[shortliner]

Pretty certain Ore cars would be more block train territory, rather than single cars

Pretty sure that you are right - but that doesn't preclude your shortline from have bought/inherited a couple for use in MOW service,or an industry using them for a specific purpose - and you can always use Rule One ! IMRR

Edited December 1, 2015 by shortliner

[Colin Stewart]

Pretty sure that you are right - but that doesn't preclude your shortline from have bought/inherited a couple for use in MOW service,or an industry using them for a specific purpose - and you can always use Rule One ! IMRR

Ore cars normally ran in blocks, the SOO certainly also used in MOW service, to or three together would work fine.

 

There is a nice photo in SO0 Line in Color of a chop nose GP9 (with a gp35 style nose)and a pair of ore cars on one track and another chop nose gp9 (this one has a sloping nose gp20 style) and an f7 backing up to other cars.

 

Colin

Edited December 2, 2015 by Colin Stewart

[PaulRhB]

And leaving one siding as a general track roadside means you can load or unload boxcars , hoppers, flats or even tank cars from road transport making it a very adaptable siding

[doctor quinn]

Ore cars normally ran in blocks, the SOO certainly also used in MOW service, to or three together would work fine.

 

Colin

Arkansas Midlands used second hand ore cars mixed with other types, I believe they were in sand traffic.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-a/am0408cha.jpg

 

Nick

[F-UnitMad]

A classic shunting puzzle (inglenook/ timesaver) is a good choice for someone like myself who is very inexperienced, as it avoids building a layout where operations will be pointless and boring...

That's sort of the point, after all no one in their right mind wants to build a 'pointless and boring' layout!!! But a small layout doesn't have to be either a Puzzle or boring. There is a 3rd way.

[Chris116]

I have looked at the web site for Model Junction, Slough and I am starting to feel more stupid by the minute. They (and Hattons) do not appear to have any freight cars in Wisconsin Central livery and my shortage of knowledge means I do not know which railroads would be operating at the same time and in the same area as Wisconsin Central did. Would stock from BNSF and CN be suitable with my GP38-2?

Edited December 1, 2015 by Chris116

[Bagpuss]

I started out like that too, with an Athearn SDP40 in CNW (if you fancy it you can have a google as to why that might be a problem), along with a nice Vermont Railway 40' boxcar, and a BN husky stack....so yeah we've all been there.

 

And don't take it as a criticism - I wouldn't have mentioned it except that Chris DID ask the question, suggesting he does want to know!

 

As for "40' cars are good for shunting puzzles" - sure, if that's the approach you want? (It wouldn't be what I'd want personally, but it's the builders choice.)

 

But 40' (ish, give or take a foot or two) freightcars are still being built brand new in 2015, as they have been for the last 100+ years. They just don't look anything like those Bachmann models. If you decide you HAVE to have 40' cars for your shunting puzzle (and again I would humbly suggest that's an individuals choice, not a rule) then you can do so perfectly prototypically by making sure you choose industries that use the denser commodities that use those short cars.

 

For WC in particular, sand, gravel, cement, kaolin/clay slurry or corn syrup would be good flows to look at. Modern, short, credible freightcars are available RTR for all of those.

 

The Walthers 2 bay trinity covered hopper has been done in WC paint, I think they used it for sand service but cement is a viable load for the car type.

The Walthers Greenville 2 bay open hopper has been done in WC, used for various aggregate loads.

The Walthers Ortner 3 bay "rock box" has been done in WC (and Algoma Central) think they might be slightly longer than 40' but still much shorter than 50'. Again, various aggregate loads (and feel free to mix with the Greenvilles)

Clay tanks can be found from Atlas, Athearn or Walthers

Corn syrup tanks can be found from Atlas, Intermountain or Walthers

 

But 50' boxcars (and there you have oodles and oodles of options for perfectly prototypical boxcars in the WC fleet, plus lots of scope for outsiders, leasers etc) are what, a whole 1.5 inches longer than a 40' car? Is that really that critical?

 

Welcome to a WC fan. It was a very fine railroad running a wonderful mix of road and local freights hauled by a selection of second hand power.

 

The GP38-2s were the newest locos on Wisconsin Central, acquired in the Algoma Central purchase in 1995.

They were Canadian spec engines and comparison of the Bachmann GP38-2 with photos such as http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=41398 and https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8611/16117545223_408ea20a1c_b.jpg shows a number of detail differences including headlights in the low nose, bell between the number boards above the cab windows, frost shields behind the cab, winterization hatches, short fuel tank, and a handbrake wheel.

 

By 1995 your freight cars would have been out of service for 20 years or more.

A major traffic source on WC were the many paper mills in Wisconsin. They required a wide variety of car types, including box cars, clay tanks, pulpwood flats and gondolas, woodchip gondolas, coal hoppers and covered hoppers of starch.

http://wc2scale.org/zenphoto/wc-railcars/ is a fantastic resource for WC freight cars of all varieties.

Martyn's advice on short car types is very wise. In particular, WC 2 bay covered hoppers were a common sight in many WC trains, carrying roofing granules from 3M at Wausau and GAF at Kremlin.

 

At the end of the day though, rule 1 applies. If you're having fun, none of the above is important.

[DelawareAndHudson]

Chris,

 

Don't feel stupid.  No point in that.  How would you know if you have no real frame of reference?  

 

The earliest photo I've come across of the WC GP38-2's is from 2000.  The WC acquired the GP38-2's when they purchased the Algoma Central Railroad.  If you haven't noticed yet, North American railroads don't rush right out and repaint everything when they merge, change names, paint schemes, etc.  Just too much rolling stock out there to get to all of it.  In the past few years, I've seen a very small handful of Great Northern and Northern Pacific painted cars on Norfolk Southern here in Indiana.  Those railroads along with the Chicago, Burlington & Quincy, and the Spokane, Portland & Seattle merged in 1970 to form the Burlington Northern.  The Burlington Northern itself merged with the Santa Fe to create BNSF in 1995.  More than 40 years and TWO mergers and you can still occasionally see GN and NP cars.  Not common but they are still out there.  Modeling a North American railroad gives you a great deal of latitude in what is correct or plausible for any given time frame.  Freight cars see 40 or more years of service here and locomotives....there is some seriously old stuff out there still running.

 

Here's a link to a photo roster of the WC.  Might not be every single locomotive ever owned by the WC but it's probably close.

 

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locolist.aspx?id=WC

 

More photos at the Fallen Flags site.  Go down to the "W" section.

 

http://rr-fallenflags.org/

 

As far as trying to figure out what cars to add to your fleet, I'd recommend you spend some quality time on YouTube watching Wisconsin Central videos.  Lots of them on there.  Also check out any railroad videos shot in the Chicago region.  That was the south end of the Wisconsin Central so pretty much any video showing freight trains on any of the Class Ones in the Chicago region from 1990-present will help you become familiar with what you might see on the WC.

 

If you want an inexpensive kit that will go a long ways to giving your 'home road' Wisconsin Central fleet the 'look' you're after, try to find a dealer that carries Accurail.  They have a 50' exterior post boxcar decorated for WC.  It might not be 100% accurate in the details, but it will go a long ways towards giving the 'flavor' of the Wisconsin Central and fairly economically at that.  One of the nice things that Accurail does is sell decal sets for many of their kits allowing you to build a fleet with different numbers of the same boxcar.  

 

http://www.accurail.com/accurail/ART/5600/5638.jpg 

 

 

Accurail also has a WC grain hopper

 

http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/2000/2004.jpg

 

 

Remember, YouTube!!!

 

 

Jason

[Bagpuss]

I have looked at the web site for Model Junction, Slough and I am starting to feel more stupid by the minute. They (and Hattons) do not appear to have any freight cars in Wisconsin Central livery and my shortage of knowledge means I do not know which railroads would be operating at the same time and in the same area as Wisconsin Central did. Would stock from BNSF and CN be suitable with my GP38-2?

No need to feel stupid. We all bought our first freight cars because they were pretty.

It's just an opportunity for research - hours surfing the net and watching videos 

There are some great WC DVDs available from C Vision, Clear Block, Plets Express, Highball and Big E Productions amongst others.

 

You might find some inspiration for a switching layout at http://wc2scale.org/zenphoto/wc-industrial-photos/

 

BNSF and CN cars would be appropriate. NS and CSX box cars were common as were Railbox.

Kaolin tanks like http://www.modeljunction.info/estore/product_info.php?cPath=25_29_70_85&products_id=39628 were common at paper mills.

If you can find any SOO 7 post box cars http://www.foxvalleymodels.com/2015MaySOO-HO.html were a WC classic.

eBay is a great source of second hand cars as are traders like http://anoraksanonymous.weebly.com/ and http://www.contikits.com/

 

Two obvious signs of a modern car are roller bearing trucks and the absence of roof walks on box cars.

US freight cars often have a build date stencilled on them. You'd get away with anything built since about 1970.

 

Have fun learning about your subject. There's so much information out there that you'll never stop.

[PaulRhB]

Search Railpictures.net using the filters, which include WC, and you'll see all sorts of stock from across the country.

Don't worry about the old livery stock as you might fancy running an earlier era with a different loco there are some nice Alco switchers around cheap from Bachmann.

As several of us have said, we did EXACTLY the same on starting out Enthusiasm got you started and they'll be fine for playing around while you acquire a few accurate ones. You certainly don't want all WC liveried stock

We ran a 26x8ft US layout 25 years ago with a right mix of eras and Railroads and it showed off something different at exhibitions

Edited December 1, 2015 by PaulRhB

[Zomboid]

That's sort of the point, after all no one in their right mind wants to build a 'pointless and boring' layout!!! But a small layout doesn't have to be either a Puzzle or boring. There is a 3rd way.

I agree. What I meant by that was that a classic puzzle is pretty much guaranteed to have interesting, if not strictly authentic operations. I valued having the certainty of having a defined game to play. When I do the next one I'll have a different set of requirements, I imagine.

[Chris116]

Thank you all once again. So now I just have to build the layout and have some fun. Get another loco to go with my stock and some more stock to go with my loco and before I know it I will have three six times the amount of locos and stock that I need but should be having fun which is after all why we all like railways and model railways.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Chris116

[don]

Chris,rule no1 applies !!! like it run it!!!!

I have a 4ft x 1ft inglenook on the top of my sideboard(seperated so free of swmbo !) its great for an occasional relaxing play.it also has a 1car kick back spur and a 18in stick to attach if required.

My fleet has all been bought on price!! so no two alike,most recent a lovely black and white as delivered in 61/62 GM&O GP30 from Bachman £44.95,largest loco is a Athern blue box SD40 in CNW Lifesaver scheme bought new and untouched for £17.00 !!! off a trader at a show,beautifull looker,way to big but £17.00!!

Rolling stock is a mixture, but if the price is right i will run it.The Bachman silver wheel series are excellent runners(your track will have to be VERY level or they are off) they used to be at a bargain price,good to mess with but recently prices seem to match the Atlas/Athern prices.

I am building an 8ft x 9ft x 1ft Lat the moment and the current track plan is a Inglenook with 4ft long sidings and a kick back at one end and a timewaster / inglenook at the other,less track more  scenery,DC /DCC powered and hand operated points.

So Chris,rule number 1.enjoy the research,yutube is great and so is the American sub section of this forum as you are discovering.

.

[DelawareAndHudson]

Lots of freight car footage in this video

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7uZ8i1S-Bg

 

 

and this one too:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0ADISGkLSI

[shortliner]

Another modeller with a similar area and lack of space -   http://bigbluetrains.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=8594 - may be of help.

[DanielB]

Don't cast aside those freight cars just yet!

 

If you are really a stickler for era's, then maybe consider the below?

 

55 ton 2 bay outside braced Hopper with coal load - Erie Railroad

Paint out the Eire name and reporting marks, but keep the car number, then rust that bad boy up. It might be something of a stretch, but it'd make a perfect shortline owned car.

 

40' Box Car - Great Northern

Remove the roofwalk, paint out the Great Northern logo and name, and you have a pretty good representation of a shortline owned aging boxcar. These older 40' cars lasted well into the 80's on shortlines.

 

40' Three Dome Tank Car - Cook Paint & Varnish Co

Not sure what you could do with this one, I'm afraid. My knowledge of 3 dome tank cars is nil.

 

40' Single Dome Tank Car - Shell

Still used in M.O.W. traffic in the 1980's. Southern Pacific also used a load of these as water tanks when travelling along certain parts of their vast empire. Something is telling me that they might have been used for Fire prevention?

 

Flat Car with three log load - Louisville & Nashville

Removing the log load and making up a few different loads, it could still fit in somewhere.

 

It's your railroad - do whatever you want with it!

Edited December 2, 2015 by DanielB

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi Chris,

 

If you are after WC freight cars (various types)...

 

I have about 20 that are just about to go on ebay to sell!

 

If you are interested - send me a pm and I'll list them for you.

 

Thanks

[Chris116]

Scottish Modeller. My phone will not let me PM anyone. Will PM when I get home around 9pm but definitely interested.

[Scottish Modeller]

Scottish Modeller. My phone will not let me PM anyone. Will PM when I get home around 9pm but definitely interested.

Hi Chris,

 

Yes - I am aware that mobile phones don't let you view or send pm's.

 

Nearly came a cropper and missed a meeting because of it!

 

Thanks

[Talltim]

Strange, mine does

[PaulRhB]

Tap on their name in mobile view and scroll down to 'send a message'

Or

Tap Full Version at the bottom of the page and get the full site

[Chris116]

I can get the message writing box up on the mobile but cannot move it across the screen so cannot send the message!

[Scottish Modeller]

I can get the message writing box up on the mobile but cannot move it across the screen so cannot send the message!

Hi Chris,

 

I get the same thing....

 

Thanks

[Chris116]

I have been thinking about what I have bought and what I need to make it prototypical. I want a Wisconsin Central set so the current loco will need to be joined by some new stock which I am in the process of getting. That leaves the problem of the freight stock I have and how I can make use of it by getting another loco. It would be nice if the new loco was from a railroad in the Wisconsin area so can any of you suggest what type would be right and which railroads should I be looking for.

 

Once again many thanks for the help you have so far given me.