Rheingold S3/6 Bavarian locos

[Popsicle49]

Hi,

The Minitrix 12237 version of the S3/6 loco comes in blue & cream Rheingold livery. The Manvell website uses the term 'eisenbahnmuseum' in its brief description.  Does anybody know whether the loco actually ran in regular service in that livery or was it so-painted just as a railway museum exhibit?

Thanks,

P49

[FelixM]

Eisenbahnmuseum means preserved livery.

 

Felix

[Sir Madog]

The S 3/6 had a dark green livery during her days in the Royal Bavarian State Railway, which later changed to the standard black and red livery of Deutsche Reichsnahn resp. Deutsche Bundesbahn.

 

The blue livery is just for exhibition purposes.

[Andy Hayter]

and of course as a Bavarian Railway engine would not have been used on the other side of the country on the Rheingold.

 

As for DRG days I am not sure.

[Sir Madog]

The Rheingold train was regularly  pulled by DRG classes 18.5 (ex K.B.St.E. S 3/6), 18.3 ( ex K.W.St.E. IVh) and class 01. Neither one had a special Rheingold livery.

 

On rare occasions, even the workhorse DRG class 38 (ex KPEV P 8) was heading this famous name train.

[burgundy]

Although the S3/6 was a pre grouping Bavarian design, according to my copy of Taschenbuch Deutsche Dampflokomotiven, about 70 were built as class 18.4 before the grouping (with an additional 18 having larger 2m driving wheels) and a further 70 were built after the grouping  as class 18.5 by the DRG, with final deliveries in 1931. Construction therefore overlapped with the 01s which first appeared in 1925.

The same source suggests that class 18.3 refers to the IVh pacifics, which were built by the Grossherzoglich Badischen Staatseisenbahnen (Baden); the K.W.St.E. (Wuerttemberg) was responsible for class C which was 18.1.

I hope this helps!

Best wishes

Eric  

[FelixM]

DRG tended to leave the old "Ländernbahnloks" in their original depots, on the basis that the series where designed for that region so should perform best there. Not all though, IIRC!

To get this right DRG made the best use out of the locos which could well be outside of their home territory. It was quite usual to see e.g. Prussian locomotives later after formation of DRG.

[Popsicle49]

Thanks to all of you who replied to my question, you've saved me from blowing a lot of money as these 12237s fetch high prices.  It would seem pointless to have one of these thundering round my layout if it never ever ran in those colours.  I have this loco in green but also in the dark red - just out of interest, did it run in the red livery and was it it any way significant?

Ta, P49

[Popsicle49]

Eisenbahnmuseum means preserved livery.

 

Felix

Thanks Felix but I find that translation intriguing since the literal one comes out as  'railway museum'.  Am I making the mistake of being too literal?  The online translation service I use recognises 'Eisenbahn Museum' but not 'Eisenbahnmuseum'. Not quibbling, just interested in languages.

Thanks

P49

[Horsetan]

Although the S3/6 was a pre grouping Bavarian design, according to my copy of Taschenbuch Deutsche Dampflokomotiven, about 70 were built as class 18.4 before the grouping (with an additional 18 having larger 2m driving wheels) and a further 70 were built after the grouping  as class 18.5 by the DRG, with final deliveries in 1931. ....

 

There were a quite bewildering variety of S3/6 batch series. They are probably best known for their work on the Lindau route.

 

At least 30 of the last 18.5 batch were themselves given new welded boilers by the DB, post-WW2, and classified 18.6.

 

All had been withdrawn by 1965/66. 18.478 is the only one that has worked in preservation, all other survivors are static, including 18.505, the former Minden brake test engine, and 18.612, the sole surviving DB-reboilered engine.

 

One 18.5 is kept on a plinth at the former Krupp factory premises in Munich-Allach, but is not publicly-accessible.

[EddieB]

One 18.5 is kept on a plinth at the former Krupp factory premises in Munich-Allach, but is not publicly-accessible.

Too true - they might allow organised groups but my attempt to arrange a solo visit was a waste of time.

[Horsetan]

Too true - they might allow organised groups but my attempt to arrange a solo visit was a waste of time.

Thing is, during Krupp's time, they were apparently quite willing to allow photography as the plinth was open-sided. When Krupp was taken over, it all changed, and a shed was built around the plinth. I tried to pinpoint its position on Google Maps, but so anonymous are the aerial views that it is quite impossible.

[burgundy]

 

One 18.5 is kept on a plinth at the former Krupp factory premises in Munich-Allach, but is not publicly-accessible.

Surely this should read Krauss Maffei - not Krupp. The original S3/6 design was built by Maffei, which subsequently merged with Krauss, another Munich based company. I believe that the current company is Krauss Maffei Wegmann.

Best wishes

Eric  

[Horsetan]

Yes, it was Krauss-Maffei, but I still can't pinpoint the building containing 18.528....

[Mallarddriver]

Hello,

the only beauty that`s left will be on the road again on her 100.birthday in 2018.

I caught her  2011 at Linz.

 

http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=9b3aff-1451822891.jpg

 

Kind regards

and a Happy New Year !!!!

 

Soeren

[EddieB]

I must say, I thought the Märklin-sponsored blue livery, carried for a time is preservation, was rather fetching.

 

[FelixM]

Thanks Felix but I find that translation intriguing since the literal one comes out as  'railway museum'.  Am I making the mistake of being too literal?  The online translation service I use recognises 'Eisenbahn Museum' but not 'Eisenbahnmuseum'. Not quibbling, just interested in languages.

Thanks

P49

Me too am interested in languages and especially the English one. I am afraid that Eisenbahnmuseum is a bad choice of word in the original text, and I meant that it means preserved livery only in this context.

 

Otherwise, a common German expression is Museumsdampf, which literally translates into museum steam, but in fact means a working steam locomotive, which may but may not be in a museum. As the Germans have no Tornado the German language does not differ so much between railway museum, heritage railway, preservation railway and so on. We did have Plandampf in the 1990s though.

 

Translation services often don't get it right when translating English to German. The German language makes no space between nouns when the first one is a nearer description to the second one. Railway means Eisenbahn and museum means Museum, but as a railway museum is not a railway and a museum (as assumed by google translator and the likes) a railway museum translates to Eisenbahnmuseum. The trained German eye at once distinguish the two words as Eisenbahn|museum.

 

Regards

Felix

[Markus-Hymek]

The 1928 Rheingold Train FFD 101/102 had from Zevenaar, near the Netherlands/Germany border, a class 18.4 or 18.5 (bay S3/6) which brought the train to and from Mannheim. From there to Basel Badischer Bahnhof in Switzerland and retour a class 18.3 (badische IV h) was used to power the train.

If one of the class 18 failed, a class 38 (pr P8) or in later years a DRG class 01 was used as a replacement engine.

The train stop running afer WW2 begins. After WW2 the old coaches from 1928 did not come back to service. The young Bundesbahn used blue coloured "Schürzenwagen".

[Mallarddriver]

Hey there,

 

S 3/6 is back in service !!!!

 

 

Best regards

Soeren

[EddieB]

Nice to see a repatriated Rheingold dome car in the special arriving behind the 110 electric.

[Guest spet0114]

The S 3/6 had a dark green livery during her days in the Royal Bavarian State Railway...

After a moment of eBay madness, I've bought a model of an S3/6 in the green livery. (Liliput L1800). As this is way outside my area of expertise, could someone suggest suitable coaching stock for it to haul? I liked the look of Liliput's 5-coach Rheingold set, but now understand that this would be entirely inappropriate. This question is, what would be?

 

Cheers

Adrian