Have I got some mojo back? A new tiny O gauge project!

[marc smith]

I believe that short radius Set Track points is one of those products where supply will create demand......

Yes, spot on. I can't understand how Peco have failed to spot a market here

Especially as we now have many more RTR O gauge locos on the market.

If you ask me, I think they're lucky someone else hasn't stepped in, and cornered the market - perhaps if it were not for the economy in general, someone would have?

 

Last night I tested the latest Lima point I had cut down / adapted. And running was rather better. Again, everything else ran through it fine

in fact, rather more smoothly than the previous point. The Hudswell Clarke did rather better, in that it ran through without derailing on both roads

but on the curved road, it ran through OK facing one way, but not the other!

On closer inspection, it seems "tight" running through the curved road, also, the loco itself doesn't have as much sideplay on the axles as my 08

On one pair of wheels, the sideplay is a bit more than the other, where there is virtually no sideplay on the centre axle

This may be a factor which contributes to derailing?

Certainly with the pair of axles with most sideplay leading, the loco was fine on both roads...... more to ponder

But I think I can whittle away at the keeper plate and improve sideplay.... hmmmm

 

Anyhow, I decided to make a start!

I had some foamboard which I had cut, to make a roundy roundy N gauge in my railway room (garage) but this has remained in the Genesis stage ever since

Not wanting to waste any of this foamboard, I decided I'd make up the main board, using a piece of this cut board, and some offcuts

Me being stingy again !

 

So yes, it looks a little odd, sort of thing - but I know what I want to do, and it'll be OK, honest!

The Lima track is a little lower in rail height than Peco flexi, so I cut a piece of cardboard and glued it in place

and then glued the point onto that. The flexi rail is just placed roughly in position in this pic

Also, the board will be shortened to around 3 feet in length

 

.... but I've made a start (even if it is one bit of track!)

Substructure and board edging to be made later

[81A Oldoak]

Yes, spot on. I can't understand how Peco have failed to spot a market here

Especially as we now have many more RTR O gauge locos on the market.

If you ask me, I think they're lucky someone else hasn't stepped in, and cornered the market - perhaps if it were not for the economy in general, someone would have?

 

Last night I tested the latest Lima point I had cut down / adapted. And running was rather better. Again, everything else ran through it fine

in fact, rather more smoothly than the previous point. The Hudswell Clarke did rather better, in that it ran through without derailing on both roads

but on the curved road, it ran through OK facing one way, but not the other!

On closer inspection, it seems "tight" running through the curved road, also, the loco itself doesn't have as much sideplay on the axles as my 08

On one pair of wheels, the sideplay is a bit more than the other, where there is virtually no sideplay on the centre axle

This may be a factor which contributes to derailing?

Certainly with the pair of axles with most sideplay leading, the loco was fine on both roads...... more to ponder

But I think I can whittle away at the keeper plate and improve sideplay.... hmmmm

 

Anyhow, I decided to make a start!

I had some foamboard which I had cut, to make a roundy roundy N gauge in my railway room (garage) but this has remained in the Genesis stage ever since

Not wanting to waste any of this foamboard, I decided I'd make up the main board, using a piece of this cut board, and some offcuts

Me being stingy again !

 

So yes, it looks a little odd, sort of thing - but I know what I want to do, and it'll be OK, honest!

The Lima track is a little lower in rail height than Peco flexi, so I cut a piece of cardboard and glued it in place

and then glued the point onto that. The flexi rail is just placed roughly in position in this pic

Also, the board will be shortened to around 3 feet in length

 

.... but I've made a start (even if it is one bit of track!)

Substructure and board edging to be made later

Marc,

The Hudswell Clarke's axle is the driven one hence the lack of side-play. Let me experiment with a surplus Hudswell Clarke chassis before you hack yours about.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

[BG John]

The advantage of a pointless micro layout, with a hidden traverser, or sector plate, is that everything is straight, and anything will run on it! If it's short enough!

Edited December 16, 2015 by BG John

[2mmMark]

Thanks for that hartleymartin. I've seen Atlas points for sale - but not for some time now

To reduce the wheel drop you sometimes get, I've pushed some DAS into that gap. Once hardened, this can be disguised by painting too

It's amazing what you can hide, with a bit of paint, ballast or "grime"

I'll keep my eye out for Atlas points, for future reference.

I think the "problematic" Lima point should be easy enough to fix - I may have just been a bit over zealous when glueing my checkrails in place

Or perhaps it just needs a bit more filing....

 

Can't wait to get started building the layout now

Cheers Brian - I will try & keep the mojo going - it's just time I lack atm

I need to retire now (on full salary! - anyone offering? lol)

 

PS. At some future point in time, I will finish that last OO project I started ages back too..... promise

I've got some Atlas points and flexitrack I'm probably not going to use. The radius of the points is very tight, possibly in the region of 24" to 30".

 

It's all up in the loft so should be in decent condition. PM me if you're interested. Quite a heavy rail, about code 140 I think, and very close US-style sleeper spacing.

 

I've also got a load of Tri-ang Big-Big track but I'm guessing that bright red plastic set-track might not fit your requirements...

 

Mark

[alant]

Yes, spot on. I can't understand how Peco have failed to spot a market here

Especially as we now have many more RTR O gauge locos on the market.

If you ask me, I think they're lucky someone else hasn't stepped in, and cornered the market - perhaps if it were not for the economy in general, someone would have?

 

Last night I tested the latest Lima point I had cut down / adapted. And running was rather better. Again, everything else ran through it fine

in fact, rather more smoothly than the previous point. The Hudswell Clarke did rather better, in that it ran through without derailing on both roads

but on the curved road, it ran through OK facing one way, but not the other!

On closer inspection, it seems "tight" running through the curved road, also, the loco itself doesn't have as much sideplay on the axles as my 08

On one pair of wheels, the sideplay is a bit more than the other, where there is virtually no sideplay on the centre axle

This may be a factor which contributes to derailing?

Certainly with the pair of axles with most sideplay leading, the loco was fine on both roads...... more to ponder

But I think I can whittle away at the keeper plate and improve sideplay.... hmmmm

 

Anyhow, I decided to make a start!

I had some foamboard which I had cut, to make a roundy roundy N gauge in my railway room (garage) but this has remained in the Genesis stage ever since

Not wanting to waste any of this foamboard, I decided I'd make up the main board, using a piece of this cut board, and some offcuts

Me being stingy again !

 

So yes, it looks a little odd, sort of thing - but I know what I want to do, and it'll be OK, honest!

The Lima track is a little lower in rail height than Peco flexi, so I cut a piece of cardboard and glued it in place

and then glued the point onto that. The flexi rail is just placed roughly in position in this pic

Also, the board will be shortened to around 3 feet in length

 

.... but I've made a start (even if it is one bit of track!)

Substructure and board edging to be made later

Hi Marc,

 

Are you intending to make the whole baseboard out of foamboard?

 

Alan.

[BG John]

I've also got a load of Tri-ang Big-Big track but I'm guessing that bright red plastic set-track might not fit your requirements...

 

Mark

Convert the locos to radio control? I'm sure that bright redness can be cured with a paint brush!

[marc smith]

Hi Marc,

 

Are you intending to make the whole baseboard out of foamboard?

 

Alan.

Hi Alan,

 

Yes indeed. I made the last 4 layouts this way, and it's quick an easy, and much much lighter than making them out of wood

Additionally, the foamboard is a great medium for carving about and getting the landscape contours you want, without mucking about with chicken wire

or having to lamintate layers of card and glue. It's so much quicker too - last time I used chicken wire, I ended up with a few puncture wounds

 

I always make a light subframe with a few battens (prob 3 on this layout) so that I can use some hardboard or thin MDF as a frame, to protect the edges

 

When I made Hendre Lane all those years ago, I used more traditional type baseboard construction methods. Although it was only 3 1/2 feet by around 20 inches deep. I couldn't really manage it on my own, despite it being a small layout -  However, my last O gauge layout at a tad under 5 feet by 20 inches is light enough to lift with one hand (EDIT, obviously, due to bulk, negotiating doors on one's own is the tricky bit)

 

There's no way I'd go back to wooden baseboards now - I have seen the light (weight option)

Edited December 16, 2015 by marc smith

[81A Oldoak]

Hi Alan,

 

Yes indeed. I made the last 4 layouts this way, and it's quick an easy, and much much lighter than making them out of wood

Additionally, the foamboard is a great medium for carving about and getting the landscape contours you want, without mucking about with chicken wire

or having to lamintate layers of card and glue. It's so much quicker too - last time I used chicken wire, I ended up with a few puncture wounds

 

I always make a light subframe with a few battens (prob 3 on this layout) so that I can use some hardboard or thin MDF as a frame, to protect the edges

 

When I made Hendre Lane all those years ago, I used more traditional type baseboard construction methods. Although it was only 3 1/2 feet by around 20 inches deep. I couldn't really manage it on my own, despite it being a small layout -  However, my last O gauge layout at a tad under 5 feet by 20 inches is light enough to lift with one hand (EDIT, obviously, due to bulk, negotiating doors on one's own is the tricky bit)

 

There's no way I'd go back to wooden baseboards now - I have seen the light (weight option)

Marc,

I would be interested to see some photos of your foamboard construction as I'm starting to think about the project that will follow Cwm Bach.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

[Mike Bellamy]

I would be interested to see some photos of your foamboard construction as I'm starting to think about the project that will follow Cwm Bach.

 

Also have a look at the work David Rae (Dava) did whilst in Canada nursing a broken wrist! The layout is now safely back in the UK and will be displayed at the Mickleover Open Day in January (along with locos from Ixion and Minerva !)

 

EDIT - forgot to add link http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/96750-easy-low-cost-micro-layout-baseboard-ideas/

 

 

 

.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Mike Bellamy

[marc smith]

Marc,

I would be interested to see some photos of your foamboard construction as I'm starting to think about the project that will follow Cwm Bach.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

Hi alan & Chris,

 

There's a pretty good description of the technique on this thread of mine

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/56443-poynton-sneer-sidings/page-2

 

Post #37 pretty much covers the technique of foamboard baseboard construction

 

My other findings and observations are;

Protect the edges, as the board is delicate - plus if you "encase" it or "frame" it, you make it easier to attach alignment dowels or hinges,

as well as a fascia for the front of the layout (and any lighting etc). Also, don't use superglue or any solvents on the foam,

as these can melt it. Once covered or sealed in PVA and or DAS, it's fine though!

 

It's nifty for hiding your wiring too! I always lay the track before landscaping (which is usual I'd say)

Wire up the layout with all wires on the TOP surface (leaving a bit of excess wire for leeway) This makes it easy to make adjustments or tinker,

as your wires are all accessed from above, rather than crouching under the layout or turning boards over....

You can also do all your tests while actually running a loco....

 

Once fully tested, simply cut a thin groove with a scalpel or stanley knife, and tuck the wire into the grooves

It almost disappears instantly! with just the ends showing a little. Once you start landscaping, what little of the grooves you could see is soon gone

The real plus side of this is, as you're loading and unloading your layout, you needn't worry about snagging vital wiring on anything else in your car!

 

Foamboard is dimensionally stable too. I've built quite a number of layouts over the years, and been in clubs that have built layouts

Every wooden baseboard has suffered at least some warping, even if only a little. Often the top surface boards sag a bit, between cross members

I've even had marine ply warp, and I know someone will say "well you obviously didn't treat it properly, or store it properly" etc

But none of the layouts I've built using foambaord has warped in the slightest.... well maybe the fasica / namepanel has a tad

but nothing that effects running or reliability

 

Cheers again

[BG John]

Do you still use hardboard for the backscenes? I'm trying to use up the materials I've got lying around, and happen to have some old pasting tables.

[marc smith]

Do you still use hardboard for the backscenes? I'm trying to use up the materials I've got lying around, and happen to have some old pasting tables.

I tend to use whatever I have to hand. Bendy MDF is probably a better material, in that it's more flexible, and more sturdy

However, It's also heavier than hardboard. I've used hardboard in the past, just because that's what I had to hand

On one layout, I had even found some, in good condition, in a skip.

 

Care needs to be taken when bending it, and I tend to tag it into position, then brace it with a strip of hardboard, at the top edge

Clamp it into position, and PVA glue it there. It becomes much more rigid then. You don't need 2 laminations of the whole area

Just the top of the backscene. On my EM scrapyard layout

I think i used clothes pegs to hold it in place while the glue dried

and a sort of torniquet of a long piece of string, to hold the bends in position

 

EDIT: I'll see what I have lying around atm. I also look in the offcuts bin at B&Q

If there's a piece of bendy MDF there, I may try that

Edited December 16, 2015 by marc smith

[BG John]

Thanks. I'll be having a big baseboard building session soon for several forthcoming layouts, but my supply of materials is dwindling. I'm even thinking I may need to buy some .

[Northroader]

When you use hardboard as scenic back,I was shown a good way to curve it, in a Cardiff workshop, as it happens. You can go down to about 4" radius curve. Mark out the area where this is, start and finish. Then fill bath or other with water, and place the sheet in, with at least the marked out area fully in. Leave for at least 4 to 6 hours or bit more. Take out, covering bathroom floor with water and get slaughtered by missus.. No, careful when taking out, work on plastic groundsheet or similar. Clamp some scrap bits of sheet, ply or whatever, either side of the markings, and gently bend. Watch for any tendency for layers to flake off on the back. If this happens it ain't wet enuff or you're trying too hard. Leave it with one end flat on the floor and t'other against a wall or some such vertical, to get a right angle bend. Then let it dry out, something like 24 hours plus, before removing the supporting sandwich on each side. Bingo.

[marc smith]

Yes Northroader, that's a good way of bending hardboard. I used it on a layout I built years ago
The last few, I haven't had to do this though. When bending it dry, you do have to watch out for cockling or actually breaking it.

Once you have bent it and fixed it in position, it's surprising how strong it becomes when glued & pinned in place
especially when you glue a strip at the top, along the whole length. Again, when buying some from B&Q, keep any offcut strips,
or ask the guy in the wood cutting dept for any such offcuts they have lying around

I recall some time back, building a layout where I found the hardboard in a skip - it had come off the back of a wardrobe someone was chucking out
From the same skip, I took a couple of drawer runners - which ended up on my Poynton Sneer layout years later
And Mrs S accuses my of hoarding rubbish!

[Barry Ten]

I recall some time back, building a layout where I found the hardboard in a skip - it had come off the back of a wardrobe someone was chucking out

From the same skip, I took a couple of drawer runners - which ended up on my Poynton Sneer layout years later

And Mrs S accuses my of hoarding rubbish!

 

Cogirep was built out of a big bit of foam I found in a skip.

[vaughan45]

These baseboard discussions are very timely, as I am currently considering materials to use for an O scale USA taster micro I am planning. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/105828-new-o-scale-layout/

 

Whilst I had been thinking of modifying a laser cut plywood board, I am now wondering about using blue insulating foam supported on a framework built from laminated 5mm Foamex plastic sheet (either directly laminated or built up into beams). Whilst this foamed plastic sheet is more expensive than foamboard, it weighs about the same and as it is solid could be used without the need for timber edging. I also appear to have several sheets gathering dust in the garage! (along with all the other stuff that will come in useful one day).

 

Not sure on the best way to make joints, probably using either a strong solvent or hot glue gun. Thinking along the lines of building a 'tray' from the foamex sheet material into which the shaped blue foam could be partially fitted.

 

Good to see you back again, Marc - I have found your previous layouts inspiring

Edited December 17, 2015 by vaughan45

[br2975]

When you use hardboard as scenic back,I was shown a good way to curve it, in a Cardiff workshop, as it happens. You can go down to about 4" radius curve. Mark out the area where this is, start and finish. Then fill bath or other with water, and place the sheet in, with at least the marked out area fully in. Leave for at least 4 to 6 hours or bit more. Take out, covering bathroom floor with water and get slaughtered by missus.. No, careful when taking out, work on plastic groundsheet or similar. Clamp some scrap bits of sheet, ply or whatever, either side of the markings, and gently bend. Watch for any tendency for layers to flake off on the back. If this happens it ain't wet enuff or you're trying too hard. Leave it with one end flat on the floor and t'other against a wall or some such vertical, to get a right angle bend. Then let it dry out, something like 24 hours plus, before removing the supporting sandwich on each side. Bingo.

 

My dad was a cabinet maker, and used this technique whenever using hardboard on a "decent" job.

.

My utility room (OK - outhouse) has a suspended ceiling which he made of 'tempered' hardboard, which, when it was dry he stretched hessian across it, which was then coated with a water PVA mix.

.

When all was thoroughly dried it was pinned to a 2" x 1" studding frame and the hessian covered in white emulsion (as it was then) .....

.

It's been up since 1979.

.

Brian R

[CourthsVeil]

… the technique of foamboard baseboard construction

 

My other findings and observations are;

Protect the edges, as the board is delicate - plus if you "encase" it … you make it easier to attach … a fascia for the front of the layout (and any lighting etc).

Also, don't use superglue or any solvents on the foam, as these can melt it. Once covered or sealed in PVA and or DAS, it's fine though!

 

It's nifty for hiding your wiring too! … all wires on the TOP surface … makes it easy to make adjustments or tinker, as your wires are all accessed from above…

You can also do all your tests while actually running a loco....

…

The real plus side of this is, as you're loading and unloading your layout, you needn't worry about snagging vital wiring on anything else in your car!

 

Foamboard is dimensionally stable too.

…

But none of the layouts I've built using foambaord has warped in the slightest…

 

Can only emphasize your above statements, Marc.

 

Would just add that framing the foamboard (link) eases the attachment of a backdrop, flat relief buildings and a control panel (link).

Also, not only the wiring can be hidden (link, 4^th pic) as you describe, but the mech of a wire-in-tube system too (link). That's why I call it "RiT" = "Rod-in-Trough"     

But works with a real WiT-system as well: link.

 

Apart from the solvents etc. issue one should be aware that this stuff does melt when heated. Therefore the often recommended hot glue gun is not such a good idea (guess how I know?).

To get rid of the nasty colours the boards come with, I usually start work with priming it with a PVA+acryl paint mix (see 3rd link above).

 

Though being incredibly lightweight, foamboard is very strong. Therefore – and considering the additional work involved – I prefer it much over any foamcore construction.

 

 

 

And, as others have said, we have missed you, Marc, and your posts very much. So I'm really glad to see you here again!

 

Kind regards

  Armin

 

 

 

PS another reason why I prefer them: here in Germany they are mostly sold as insulating boards measuring ~122x60cm (cost 5.30€ !!! ). Cutting in half gives me TWO baseboards of four sqft each. Perfeckt, isn't it?

[Northroader]

I find our local Wickes store is the best place for picking up off cuts at knockdown prices. Sorry, I forgot to say after my previous post on points, I boned up on Cashmores Yard and Poynton Sneer. They're great, both for craftsmanship and reviving memories of old bits of railways. I'm sure the new project ("?????") will be another in that tradition.

[marc smith]

Not too much progress over the Christmas break
I really should have done loads of modelling, having had some time off work
But you know how it is.... presents to open, relatives to visit.... food & drink to be consumed

However, I did get a little bit done
playing about with a few wagons, I worked out roughly how long the two roads were to be, and cut the "main" part of my baseboard to rough length
As this project is another cost-saver / cheap build, the baseboard will be a right patchwork of bits & pieces
So I've tacked on a piece at front & back of board. I haven't added the under framing yet - I'll do that later
i.e. when I can find sufficient cheap / free pieces of offcut

Just moving a few of the small structures around, to see how the design looks
Yes, I'm confident it will be sturdy and strong enough, when complete
Poynton sneer was made of several pieces of foamboard
This tiny layout will have a further small piece added in the foreground, to add low level foreground interest..

EDIT: the lengths of flexi rail are just sat in place (not yet fully adjusted / curved or fixed in position)

Edited January 4, 2016 by marc smith

[Wayne 37901]

Hi Marc,

 

Nice to see some progress just the kind of planning I like as I've never been keen on using planning software. I find with that you don't get that 'feel' of how things will look.

 

 

When you get round to doing scenic work don't forget I still have your static grass tool, so when you need just give me a shout.

 

 

Cheers,

[marc smith]

Hi Marc,

 

Nice to see some progress just the kind of planning I like as I've never been keen on using planning software. I find with that you don't get that 'feel' of how things will look.

 

 

When you get round to doing scenic work don't forget I still have your static grass tool, so when you need just give me a shout.

 

 

Cheers,

Hi Wayne,

 

And happy new year good sir

Yes, I had a brief dabble with a pal's planning software a few years back. I'm sure there are many good reasons for using it,

and many who would always approach their planning that way, and use it successfully.

I however, like to get a piece of wallpaper, a few wagons, and some track and structures...

 

That way, I get some sense of 3 dimensional proportion, train movements, and whether a building may or may not look as "right" as it did in the 2D plan....

Shuffling wagons around, roughly checking clearances and siding lengths - See, I haven't even started building anything, and I'm already playing trains!

 

I also like to scribble plans & sketches on scraps of paper - this usually gets me daydreaming about prototype locations,

new designs and layout schemes. I'm often sketching 3 or 4 layouts ahead lol

If only I had built one layout for every thirty sketches I've made hmmm

.... wait a minute.... Mrs S would have disowned me

[Wayne 37901]

Hi Marc,

 

And the same to you and yours sir. I know what you mean about scribbling plans out on paper, I'm slowly building up a sketch book of possible ideas for layouts. After Dragon Steels will come the scottish layout, then I'll decide what to do next.

 

 

Cheers

[marc smith]

Giving this layout some more thought... And I must say, I'm thinking more and more that I could make it into a small scrapyard scene,

rather than the coal disposal point / yard which I had previously planned to make it.

I did enjoy building my EM scrapyard, Cashmores based layout.
And making a 7mm scrapyard, I can picture using my very rusty, weather-beaten mineral wagons, loaded with dummy scrap loads
like my EM scrapyard. The siding on the right, in the foreground can be where the wagons disappear offstage, to be unloaded
and I'm fancying building a low-relief small overhead crane on that end of the layout
Room for a mirror too, maybe?

I had pictured this tiny O project as a grotty, grimy coal yard
but now I'm thinking of a grotty, grimy scrapyard....
Oh, which should it be folks?

EDIT: A working overhead crane, using electro-magnets seems a good idea too
Although for this project I'm needing a low-cost, quick build project....

Edited January 12, 2016 by marc smith