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I'm not a prolific poster, but following a mojo attack I've rediscovered an old joy, multiple units.  Largely these are for an EM layout I own with Mark Begley, which is set in the Portsmouth area.  As such it sees SW and Central division stock, plus some off-region items.  I've also got a 312 I've occasionally get out, solder a few bits to, swear at, then put away for three years.

 

I've been converting a Bachmann 4-CEP to 4-TC DTSs, and I'm looking out for the appropriate mk1s to complete the rake.  I bought the FK today, so just a BSK to go.  The sides were straightfoward enough, with the TS and a DMBS providing parts so that one could be formed of just three sections, and the other needing four.  Where possible I've made the joints on the doors, but one needed a join mid-saloon.

 

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I tried chopping up a Hornby VEP cab to get it correctly proportioned with a view to using it on the TC and '63 stock units, making a master and taking castings from it.  It's gone OK so far, but I quickly realised that it's too small relative to the Bachmann CEP.

 

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After some rummaging, I found some MJT '63 stock ends, and although they're a little bit smaller than the Bachmann CEP, I managed to get a fair line up.  I will make a new corridor connection though, the MJT one just seems all round underfed!

 

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Other than the TC, I'm also working on a HAP.  The first, easy, job was using components from the redundant CEP chassis to add the appropriate '57 control gear (camshaft) to the DMBS.  Dampers(?- the vertical cylinders mid-bogie) are yet to be added.

 

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The DTCL has had the appropriate windows blanked, details removed and door gaps filled, then the door droplight enlarged until it's the right size for the cludgee.

 

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I've removed the superflous details from the inner ends, and now need to add the new detail, plus change the coupling from a central buffer to buckeye and buffing plate.  I'd like to make a sprung buffing plate, watch this space...

Edited by Taigatrommel
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I went down to my local toy shop earlier to buy some brass for making pickups.  As it happened, they had mk1 BSKs in at a good price, so the 4-TC now has all its donor vehicles.

 

The BSK doesn't need a lot doing body-wise to make it a 4-TC TBSK.  The guard's window needs filling in, and the toilet window needs changing to a non-vented type.  Well, as it happens the redundant guard's window is the right sort for the khazi, and so after cutting out the moulded frame parts from the aperture the guard's window just drops right in.  Then the former toilet window is put in the guard's old spot, and coated with filler ready for rubbing down.  Easy peasy!

 

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One overall obstacle for the conversion of vehicles to make up the 4-TC is the window frames, correctly present on the CEP donor vehicles, but not on the Bachmann hauled stock.  I'll have a go at drawing some framed up for laser cutting from 10 thou plasticard.  A silhouette cutter would be the ideal tool for the job, but I don't have access to one.  The chopped up CEP vehicles do provide some parts for the ex-hauled stock though, as their windows have a nice representation of aluminium frames.  They look good in the BSK, the left two windows in the image below:

 

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I'm also revisiting a 4-REP I built some time ago, starting with the TRB which I was never happy with.  The basis for this vehicle is a mainline RB.  On the kitchen side, one kitchen window is blanked off, and the staff compartment window removed, being replaced with some plain bodyside and an unvented toilet window.  These parts are from Triang mk1s, and I also use bits from these old coaches for filling unwanted windows as they have the right curve to match the bodyside.  The plastic Mainline moulded the body from is a pig to work with, it quickly dulls blades and is unaffected by liquid poly or plastic weld.  As such, I've resorted to araldite to secure the new parts.

 

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On the corridor side, there's less work, with a medium size window being filled in and the vents removed from the toilet window.  I'm pretty certain the loo window is actually too narrow, but I've stuck with it in the interests of body strength.  If it still looks wrong when painted up, I'll file it out to a larger size.  On the roof, a few vents need removing, basically everything except the large vents above the kitchen and the standard size ones running on the centreline of the roof above the saloon.

 

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The TRB houses the mechanism for the unit, which comes from a Bachmann CEP.  Previously I'd used Bachmann 25 parts to power EMUs, which actually would be better here as the CEP power bogie wheelbase is about 1mm longer than a B5.  Bachmann 12mm wagon wheels have replaced the 14mm wheels originally present, and pickups altered to collect from the wheel backs rather than the bearings as these new wheels have insulating bosses.  The chassis is a Replica mk1 chassis I found in my spares box, with its original weight still present to aid traction.  I've also filled the holes under the tables on the interior and filled this space with liquid lead.  I haven't weighed it, but it feels to have slightly more mass than a Bachmann CEP power car now.  I've got to add pickups to the trailing bogie now, hence going into town for brass.  The bogies are Hornby B5s from the VEP.  The Replica chassis will accept these through their original mounting hole, though the bearing is cut down to level with the bottom of the solebar to get a better ride height.  I'll have to see how this looks when finished, as the previous effort rode on Replica B4s.

 

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Incidentally, I'm really struggling to suss out what undergubbins are on a 4-REP TRB.  I've searched online pictures and my own books, but with little success beyond the placement of the water tanks, which I think are actually longer than the Southern Pride one I've got mounted in the picture above.

Edited by Taigatrommel
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Paul,

 

That diagram is a great help.  Thank you very much.

 

I had a misunderstanding about the inner ends of HAPs.  I was under the impression they were the same as class 205s.  I haven't managed to find any pictures of 2-HAP inners, so that was all I had to go on!

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A little more work today- some crude chopping of parts to make up an interior for the 2-HAP DTC.  The compartments come from the hacked up CEP, the rest from the donor EPB.  I'll probably take a casting of the 3+2 seating, as most of the EPB interior is compartments.  The compartment in the middle is where the toilets would be, I see no point going to town with these as you can't see in through the whited out windows.

 

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Also falling victim to my knife are a Hornby mk2E FO and a Bachmann mk2 FK.  Together, they make up a mk2c SO- the ends in as far as the passenger saloon from the mk2E with the main windows from the mk2.  This is a 64xx series SO, built as FO and downclassified in the early 1980s.  I'll have to find some scrap mk2s to provide the correct pattern glazing, as the donor mk2 has the earlier double ventilator windows.  The corridor side from the Bachmann mk2 needed a lot of cutting and shutting - the centre door made the windows have an irregular spacing.  There were a few reject fillets and a lot of filing!

 

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The compartment side was pretty much a drop in for the former Hornby side.  The bodyside depth of both vehicles is the same, but the profiles don't quite match.  For my money, I think Hornby have a better representation of the mk2s' curves.  Either way, it's close enough that a bit of filler can create a blend.  I'll probably put a coat of primer on tomorrow just to see how it looks.  I need to get some vents for the roof.  Does anyone know who makes the correct type?

 

The toilet windows on the ex-mk2E need deepening to represent the mk2C.  I simply filed them out until it looked right.

 

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Edited by Taigatrommel
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A little more work today- some crude chopping of parts to make up an interior for the 2-HAP DTC.  The compartments come from the hacked up CEP, the rest from the donor EPB.  I'll probably take a casting of the 3+2 seating, as most of the EPB interior is compartments.  The compartment in the middle is where the toilets would be, I see no point going to town with these as you can't see in through the whited out windows.

 

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Also falling victim to my knife are a Hornby mk2E FO and a Bachmann mk2 FK.  Together, they make up a mk2c SO- the ends in as far as the passenger saloon from the mk2E with the main windows from the mk2.  This is a 64xx series SO, built as FO and downclassified in the early 1980s.  I'll have to find some scrap mk2s to provide the correct pattern glazing, as the donor mk2 has the earlier double ventilator windows.  The corridor side from the Bachmann mk2 needed a lot of cutting and shutting - the centre door made the windows have an irregular spacing.  There were a few reject fillets and a lot of filing!

 

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The compartment side was pretty much a drop in for the former Hornby side.  The bodyside depth of both vehicles is the same, but the profiles don't quite match.  For my money, I think Hornby have a better representation of the mk2s' curves.  Either way, it's close enough that a bit of filler can create a blend.  I'll probably put a coat of primer on tomorrow just to see how it looks.  I need to get some vents for the roof.  Does anyone know who makes the correct type?

 

The toilet windows on the ex-mk2E need deepening to represent the mk2C.  I simply filed them out until it looked right.

 

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The Bachmann doors can be easily modded to look like 2BC designs, the toilets though, you will need frames, Extreme Etchings have some in the design stage, I had some frames from a chap who built a rake of 2Cs and used them with EE 2ZABC frame.

 

Mine are Lima based currently 2B TSO, FK, 2C TSO, FK, BSO in the works

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Hi Rich. (hope I got that right)

 

Some good modelling going on here.

 

I always thought that there were two differing kinds of Buffets in 4Reps.

 

I have a few details of a couple if you are interested.

 

Also. Would you be interested in a photo or two of Haps. There were several builds with differing roofs. What number do you intend your to be?

 

Dave

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Hi Dave,

 

There were indeed two sorts of REP buffet; phase one had rebuilt RBs (like the Mainline model), phase two has rebuilt RUs (available from Bachmann).  Any photos, details etc would be most welcome, I don't think there's such a thing as too much information.

 

Rich

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In between family duties and a Christmas party, I managed to get make a little progress this weekend.

 

The REP TRB has some undergear added- water tanks on both sides, one Southern Pride, the other bashed out of plasticard.  These are both filled with fluid lead for a bit of extra weight.  An SP motor-generator takes its place too, as do drain tops from the same sprue.  For the refridgeration unit, I took a razor saw to the original Mainline chassis.  The other parts I still don't feel comfortable enough with to add, I'll rummage through my undergubbins stash and post what I've got, maybe someone will see something that clicks as being right for the job.  Thanks to Paul Wade for providing information that's enabled me to get this far.  I've also trimmed the stepboards on the Replica chassis to leave just those needed for the TRB.

 

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For the 4-TC, I've been adding little bits to Bachmann B4s to see if I can make them look close enough to an SR B5 for my own satisfaction.  I think it's close enough- the red one is my modified Bachmann, the black a Hornby one.  This should save fiddling about making new bogie mounts, and saves a little money too. 

 

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Less interesting, but pretty important, I have been sitting trimming the roof ribs off the Bachmann BSK and FK for the 4-TC.  I still find it odd that when Mainline, Lima and even Triang(!) could mould incredibly fine roof  seams, it is beyond the capabilities of current toolmakers.  I think they are an important aspect of the character of mk1s, so I shall have to find a way of subtly representing them on the ex-CEP vehicles -perhaps simply masking one roof panel at a time for painting.

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Rich.

 

I've had a look through my negatives and found a few that might help. It has surprised my how few I have compared with other stuff.

 

I've tweeked most to bring out the detail, especially the roof weld lines as these will help you place the vents etc. Note the vents are in the centre of a roof panel. As these were conversions of loco hauled stock they have the same size panels throught the length of the roofs. Hope these help.

I'll have a look through my slides a little later.

 

Best of luck

 

Dave

 

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Dave, those photos are superb, thank you very much!  That's the kitchen side of the TRB definitely sorted.  It's interesting to see the destination board above the window on the coupled 4-TC in one picture- what year were these taken?  The clarity of the images is great, thank you for your efforts in processing them.  If you'd like to share the sketch you have too, that would be great - I'm sure it won't just be me who's interested.

 

Rich

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Can't be bothered with clicking loads of likes etc. Well done so far Rich.

 

You are right I am also interested in the information Dave and Paul have so far provided so thanks guys.

Clive.

 

How did you manage to get you avatar to look so much like you?

 

Dave

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Well, I've been plugging away steadily.  So much so that I've actually run out of knife blades.  The shops in Cheltenham had a serious lack of X-Acto blades, so I had to mail order some.  They arrived today.

 

I've been occupied with undergear.  Thanks to Dave Copthorne and Paul Wade's info, I'm nearly there with knowing what goes where on a 4-REP.  I could do with some help on the corridor side of the TRB, I don't know what a Westinghouse brake unit or the water boiler look like!  On the TBFK, I don't know what the circled items on Dave's sketch are like.

 

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I've given up on the 2-HAP.  Really.  Instead, I'm making a phase 2 4-CAP (413/3)!  As there's simply no need for two motors in a four-car unit, I've made up a trailer chassis from 4-CEP leftovers.  Thanks to having already lopped the bufferbeam off the CEP's DMBS chassis without thinking, I had to useone of the centre car trailers, then add buffing plate (Replica) and buffers (MJT).  This leaves me with a spare powered chassis.  I have a Replica MLV body, but as MLVs weren't seen round the Solent I'll probably leave it in my spares box for now.

 

I've pretty much used up all the undergear that I already had knocking around.  I've used DC Kits underframe trussing on the ex-Triang REP cars, trimmed down to sit at roughly the right depth.  Southern Pride underframe components make up the electrical gear, and now I've run out!  I don't have a cheque book, so getting more is going to be a pain.

 

Rather than put every carriage in a picture, here's a few lumped together.

 

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I had to make pickups for the trailing bogie on the 4-REP TRB.  I don't know why, but I didn't feel like doing this small job.  Instead, like an expert procrastinator, I started something else...

 

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I have no idea what I'm doing...

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From the underside to the ends...

 

I'm prioritising the 4-REP at present as it's closer to finished than the 4-TC, and as I don't have any 33/1s the REP is needed!

 

With a characteristic lack of foresight, I had carved off the end details from the Triang mk1s,  As such, steps and alarm gear needed replacing.  I used plastic rod, cutting a slither of it for the telltales.  I made about twice as many telltales as I fitted, as they kept disappearing!  The steps are DC Kits, the handrail 0.45mm brass rod.  The TRB needed extra steps as it only had one, and I carved its one existing one off so that they would all match.

 

Corridor connections are Hornby, from the VEP.  I know they're a bit misproportioned, but to be honest, it will be fine within the rake.

 

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The second DTSoL for the 4-CAP is well underway, with the filling and filing for the toilet window done.

 

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I've decided that it's job done on blending the parts making up the Mk2C SO.  It's all too easy to get carried away filling and rubbing down, then doing so again to try to get a perfect match.  I think this will look acceptable once I have painted it blue/grey.  Now I need to suss out the underside!  I have NNK etched window frames on their way to me, so that will save me hunting for scrap Bachmann mk2s.  I hadn't realised what a useful range of frames NNK produce, inluding window frames for late HAPs and DEMUS, as well as cab windows for D/EMUs.  With this order come the paints for decorating these units.

 

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Rich.

 

Some time ago, a guy by the name of Mark Brinton posted a series of 'photo surveys' of EMU stock underframes. I think it was on the Southern Email Group. I have posted these below and included them all in case other types are useful to you. I'm sure he won't mind them being repeated for a good cause.

 

I guess the copyright remains with him though.

 

I'm not sure how they will blow up when viewed here as they were originally PDFs.

 

Let me know if you would like the PDFs 'WeTransferred' to you.

 

Dave.

 

ps Do you need Hasp photos? Give me unit Nos as there were several roof layouts and Trailer underframe gubbins. May have a sketch as well.

 

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I've been having thoughts about interiors, specifically colours.  The Bluebell Railway have some useful information about moquettes, and specifically mention Bournemouth line stock- I assume this to mean REPs and TCs.  As such, from this page, I presume Bournemouth Blue is what I should approximate for second class and Charcoal Check for first on my REP and TC.  Searching for other EMU interiors I have to guess at something resembling Trojan for the 4-CAP in second, but what in the former first class compartments?

 

In terms of panelling, particularly on the compartment vehicles of the REP and TC, I'm very unsure.  For some reason I have in my mind largely formica panelling with blue compartment doors.  Is this hazy memory correct?  Going from this photo on Project Commuter's flickr collection, I presume wood panelling to be appropriate for a Phase 2 4-CAP.  The moquette in this preserved 2-HAP is NSE era however, so doesn't help my quest for an mid-80s blue/grey unit.

 

Any help is, as always, very welcome.

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Interesting to see someone else starting a class 442, must admit these units arnt the easiest to do, I tried scratch building the ends for the DTSL's and gave up, fortunately some Hurst ones appeared on Ebay, not sure if theyre still availiable or not

NL

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Dave,

 

You continue to be a huge help.  Thank you very much!  My tank looks a little short, luckily I have some tube that's the same diameter.

 

Nick,

 

I actually have some Hurst ends.  I bought them off ebay!  I decided not to use them, frankly, even the MTK ones look better.  Still, they gave me the inspiration I needed to actually start the project.  I've had the mk3s put by for over 7 years, and a Bachmann 158 chassis that's been waiting for a year or so!  Their power car undergear is also poor in comparison to Southern Pride, though the power bogie sideframes are pretty good.  I was pretty surprised to be honest, especially given other models I've seen made from Hurst products.  I'm not going to rush this project, I have an idea how I'm going to tackle it, but it will be one to carve away at when I'm feeling relaxed.

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