Building kits for Tyneside in the BR era. J24 and PDK D49/2

[rowanj]

Good motor/gearbox combination there, the LoadhaulerPlus would be another alternative box if you wanted a bigger reduction.

Cheers, Dave.

It's another first for me using Highlevel products, ironic as they are based just down the road and are always at local shows. It went together very well,- no meshing problems. If this build goes ok, I'm thinking about a J19 and the Loadhauler range would seem a good option for this.

 

Thanks

John

Edited December 23, 2015 by rowanj

[46256]

John you know how highly I rate the high level gearboxes, not just the products but the service you get from the proprietor

 

Best wishes brian

[mikemeg]

It's really great to see someone just 'take the plunge' and build a loco. You might make some mistakes as you go along; we all have, for none of us was born with a soldering iron and an inate ability to solder, we've all had to learn it.

 

So just push on with it and finish it and then enjoy the reward of seeing 'all your own work' actually running.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[rowanj]

A bit more progress made, as shown in the photos. The chassis now runs though when the footplate is fitted , there is some shorting by the uninsulated drivers, so a bit of judicial filing will e needed. The tender is virtually complete as far a the etchings are concerned. The curves were as tricky as I expected them to be to make without bars and I think the final result is best described as "adequate". The etched parts were usually a good fit though the photos show a gap at the bottom of the tender sheet where it meets the footplate. I missed this in real life and still have to peer at it to see what I did wrong. I'll flood some solder in it when I fit the valance. The instruction refer to "brass strip as contained in the kit" but all I can find is round rod and I'm sure the valance should be square, Scrap etch will probably suffice.

 

Edit - looking at Mike and TW's posts and photos, I think my coal rails are too far back. They hopefully will be easy enough to re-set.

 

Other than forming the curves, the only other real issue I had was with the illustration of the tender footplate. This has a small hole at one end which appears to be the front, so I merrily soldered the drawbar and bufferbeam as instructed. When I came to check the fit of the tender sides and rear it was obvious that the illustration was the wrong way round. A quick check of Mike Edge's build confirmed this and, being at an early stage, this was easy to correct by unsoldering and repositioning.

 

What do I think so far? Well, overall I,m still pretty happy and confident that I'll finish up with a working model. I could have started with something easier, and probably should have. PDK kits are a good entry point for new builders but care is needed when following instructions. I have a good supply of B16 photos and suspect that some additional detailing - mainly just pipe runs and the like -may be needed The smokebox saddle also looks a bit bare. But I'm getting there.... I think....

Edited December 20, 2015 by rowanj

[nerron]

. The instruction refer to "brass strip as contained in the kit" but all I can find is round rod and I'm sure the valance should be square, Scrap etch will probably suffice.

 

The smokebox saddle also looks a bit bare. Nut I'm getting there.... I think....

You are right about the tender valance,I also used some scrap etch.The smokebox saddle is bare because it is missing the nine bolts that attach the inside cylinder.I used 16BA bolt heads to represent these.Have a look at TW's model.

[ArthurK]

With tab and slot construction it is essential to push the tabs fully home on all edges of box structures such as tenders. It is also essential that the box is square and the the two components sit together properly. The footplate should rest squarely on a flat surface and held in that position whilst tack soldering the two units at each corner and checked before proceeding further. Unless this is done it is extremely easy to build in a twist in the body shell (I speak from the experience of having done just that). I suspect that this is what has happened. Removing a twist after being fully soldered is nigh on impossible without unsoldering the lot which is itself an onerous task.

 

I still think the the coal rails are still a tad too far back. The upward sweep of the should start immediate after the front curve reaches the horizontal.

 

I hope that these comments are useful they are not intended as criticism.

 

ArthurK

[rowanj]

 

 

 

I hope that these comments are useful they are not intended as criticism.

 

ArthurK

 

On the contrary, your comments are very helpful.

I think I have been very lucky to keep the tender body square given the error in seating the etch correctly. To the naked eye, it looks OK. I have also managed to resite the coal rails and this makes the overall look seem much better. The tender sub chassis is in the paint shop and only a few more detailing parts are needed before a good clean up and the tender body can join it. Famous last words??

[rowanj]

Tender sub-chassis completed and painted. The etch is very accurate and the only issue I had was tweaking the brakes and linkage to ensure the wheels didn't foul and/or cause a short. Progress has also been made with the tender body, not least following Arthur's helpful post, and it really only needs buffers and handrails. I prefer a hook and bar to connect loco and tender and this will be added next . More indulgence sees loco and tender posed, this time with chimney and dome.

To the disgust of LNER fans, my loco will be in BR lined black, so I'm intending to follow TW;s suggestion and use lining transfers to suggest the boiler bands. I'll also copy Nerron's proposal and use 16ba nuts on the smokebox saddle to reproduce the very obvious feature visible on all photos of B16/1;s, Thanks again to all who have passed on help - it really is appreciated.

 

 

[mikemeg]

With tab and slot construction it is essential to push the tabs fully home on all edges of box structures such as tenders. It is also essential that the box is square and the the two components sit together properly. The footplate should rest squarely on a flat surface and held in that position whilst tack soldering the two units at each corner and checked before proceeding further. Unless this is done it is extremely easy to build in a twist in the body shell (I speak from the experience of having done just that). I suspect that this is what has happened. Removing a twist after being fully soldered is nigh on impossible without unsoldering the lot which is itself an onerous task.

 

I still think the the coal rails are still a tad too far back. The upward sweep of the should start immediate after the front curve reaches the horizontal.

 

I hope that these comments are useful they are not intended as criticism.

 

ArthurK

 

Just to add to this excellent advice. With tab and slot construction it is often advisable to 'assist' the fit of these interlocking components by a little judicious filing. The tabs may have a very slight burr on them, as might the slots, in which case the smooth fit is compromised.

 

I normally just very slightly feather the bottom of the tab with a fine needle file. Not the full depth of the tab, as that will cause a gap but the bottom 10 - 15 thou of the tab. Also a couple of strokes of the same fine needle file at the edges of the tab often helps the seating of the part. And I really do mean a couple of strokes of the file. You'e not trying to reduce the dimensons of the tab but simply to 'tidy up' its edges.

 

I also use an appropriately sized broach which I run up and down the slot, for the same reason and, again, with as light a touch as can be done.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited December 23, 2015 by mikemeg

[rowanj]

Not the greatest photos but I hope they show that the tender has turned out adequately - the next one will be better. There are plenty rough edges, but the photo I'm using as a template shows the prototype had a good few too. That's not an excuse for lack of quality of my work.

 

I have been using a 25w iron which I have found to be erratic when trying to fit smaller detail parts such as handrail knobs to the tender body. I found the tender body absorbed the heat and made making a clean joint difficult. Obviously another technique to learn but I may invest in a variable wattage iron if I do all this again.

 

I'm given to understand Santa is bringing me a Hornby D16/3. No doubt its' finish will laugh at my effort but its a moot point which will give me greater pleasure in the long run.

[ArthurK]

Soldering is done from the inside wherever possible. That includes handrail knobs. Mine are always done from the inside before body and footplate are united. No need to clean up afterwards!

 

ArthurK

[rowanj]

Soldering is done from the inside wherever possible. That includes handrail knobs. Mine are always done from the inside before body and footplate are united. No need to clean up afterwards!

 

ArthurK

That's how I'll do the work on the loco body.With experience and hindsight it's the obvious way to go.

I suppose kit designers need to assume a level of knowledge in their product, but PDK instructions don't even mention things like handrail knobs and other detailed parts. This is an observation, not a complaint.

To do a loco like the B16, I've needed to do a fair bit of research to see where things go and identified quite a bit of extra detail not included in the kit. To be fair, I enjoy doing it and have a lot of material to hand, but I suspect some folk would be discouraged. Not me, though..I plough on regardless.

[nerron]

I have been using a 25w iron which I have found to be erratic when trying to fit smaller detail parts such as handrail knobs to the tender body. I found the tender body absorbed the heat and made making a clean joint difficult. Obviously another technique to learn but I may invest in a variable wattage iron if I do all this again.

 

A more powerful iron will make a big difference to the neatness of your soldering.If you take that step it may be worth stripping the paint from the tender and using the more powerful iron to tidy up the joint between the tender side and its base so that you end up with a continuous and less conspicuous joint.I can understand you wanting to see the model painted,but I have found from years of experience that it is wise to run the loco and tender unpainted for some time until all the "bugs" have been ironed out.You certainly are doing well for your first build.

[micklner]

Be easier now to file,scrape and rub down with wet and dry paper. A light spray of primer will show up any faults clean them up and then topcoat.

[ArthurK]

A common misunderstanding on models of NER tenders is the rear handrail. I won't call this an error. These did not normally use handrail knobs but was simply a bar bend to size (usually two feet) and bolted on the inside of the tender. There are examples on RMWEB of others making this same mistake. No doubt your B16/1 instructions were incorrect in the respect.

 

ArthurK

[rowanj]

.You certainly are doing well for your first build.

 

Well I'm not so sure but its kind of you to say so.The D16 looked lovely with my rake of Hornby/Comet Gresley,s straight out the box, and then I looked at the brass monstrosity. With what little modelling time I had I managed to get the splashers fitted and cab handrails fixed as well as handrails to one side of the boiler, soldered from inside as suggested. I also fitted safety and shifting valves as this seemed easier to do before fitting the boiler. The brass whistle seems to be missing. Given the appeal not to overburden A&E during the holidays, I have not sought attention for my soldered hands.

Looking at photographs of the real thing, I see I have made an error with the cylinder support bracket, which is actually a 2 piece fitment on the B16, unlike the Q6 for example. I followed the kit instructions, honest.Another repair job to do...

John

[Earlswood Nob]

Good morning all

 

Thanks for the tip, ArthurK. I'll remember that the next time I build a NER tender.

 

Earlswood Nob

[rowanj]

I'm  starting to think I might get a B16 out of all that metal. The chassis runs nicely and the basic shell looks reasonable. The cab roof is just tacked at one corner to check the look, and the remaining work seems to be cosmetic detail.

 

Reading earlier posts, I seem to have chuntered on about the PDK instructions, I suppose my only previous point of reference was Wills/SEF, DJH and Nu Cast which were all pretty comprehensive. I think as long as what comes in the kit is read alongside photos and other reference books, which seems to be an assumption by PDK, then the info in the kit will be adequate. There are a couple of places where the instructions themselves mislead me. - the cylinder supports and rear handrail for example, - but most of the errors were mine.

 

As the next batch of work is detailing, I'll make this the last post until it's time for priming/ painting, which will be Halfords Satin Black and Modelmasters transfers.

[mikemeg]

Lots of folk have offered lots of advice, on this thread, so another word of advice. If something you've done doesn't look right i.e. a joint which is too prominent; something out of line, etc. then don't be afraid to undo it and do it again before moving on to another step or process.

 

The modeller's best friend (and worst enemy) is the digital camera. Best friend because the photos very quickly show up any inaccuracies or misalignments. Worst enemy because the digital camera is unrelenting in its ability to highlight every one of these 'departures from accuracy'. So, perhaps, learn to 'tame the digital camera' and use it as the quality control on what you do, as many of us have had to learn that same lesson.

 

I've also benefitted from certain posters, on here, who are unequivocal in their comments - no names, no pack drill - who will say such as 'Love the model but the smokebox handles are just awful' or 'That chimney just looks too fat.'

 

And, generally, such posters and postings are absolutely right!!!

 

Cheers and a very Happy New Year to you.

 

Mike

Edited December 28, 2015 by mikemeg

[rowanj]

Thanks Mike and all the best to you, too, Believe me, I'm all to familiar with how photos show up defects - it's why I will never take "selfies" I'm also truly grateful for most of the advice I've received - less so from the couple of PM's who suggested I should bin the soldering iron and stick to RTR. But I'm actually enjoying the process, however it turns out, and the main point of this thread was to show others that you don't need to be an expert to produce a working model which approximates the prototype... or at least try to do so.

 

John

[Craigw]

 - less so from the couple of PM's who suggested I should bin the soldering iron and stick to RTR. But I'm actually enjoying the process, however it turns out, and the main point of this thread was to show others that you don't need to be an expert to produce a working model which approximates the prototype... or at least try to do so.

 

John

 

Seriously, what a pathetic, mean and above all else gutless thing for someone - anyone to do. John, everybody has to start somewhere and you have displayed a lo of courage taking on a complex kit. As you are aware, the soldering is not as good as it should be in places but we live and learn. Now that you know, you will add new tools, practise and be a little more critical of your soldering joints and I am certain whatever you attempt next will be better. Most importantly, you are doing something and enjoying it. I have been casually watching your posts (Not a NER modeller!) and you have built it up very quickly (possibly too quick as others have pointed out) Well done on all counts.

 

Perhaps the people who sent you PMs like that will have the courage of their convictions to say such things in public? I doubt it somehow.

 

Keep on going John!

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[mikemeg]

Thanks Mike and all the best to you, too, Believe me, I'm all to familiar with how photos show up defects - it's why I will never take "selfies" I'm also truly grateful for most of the advice I've received - less so from the couple of PM's who suggested I should bin the soldering iron and stick to RTR. But I'm actually enjoying the process, however it turns out, and the main point of this thread was to show others that you don't need to be an expert to produce a working model which approximates the prototype... or at least try to do so.

 

John

 

John,

 

At the risk of prolonging this, just keep on going. The most important thing in doing this (at least in my humble opinion) is to recognise where one is on the learning curve. You've chosen to take on quite a challenging entry into kit building so, by virtue of having done that, then you are confronted with more challenges than would have been the case with a simpler prototype i.e. an 0-6-0 tank. The key thing is to satisfy yourself; anyone else's views, opinions are secondary to that.

 

My only other advice would be to take note of the well meant, but objective, comments and disregard the 'nay sayers', on here.

 

But above all, just keep going. We all had to start somewhere!!

 

Regards

 

Mike

Edited December 28, 2015 by mikemeg

[Worsdell forever]

Remember us NER modellers have the advantage of very little RTR! Impending RTR has made me backdate (which I have always wanted to do), my current 1001 was scrapped in 1909. So keep building and don't forget, the man who never made a mistake never made anything.

[micklner]

It would be interesting for these "keyboard warriors" to show some of their wonderful builds !!! Totally out of order .

[rowanj]

It would be interesting for these "keyboard warriors" to show some of their wonderful builds !!! Totally out of order .

 

If I was 26 rather than 66 I might be bothered but as it is, I just don't care. I'm much more gratified by the help of modellers I've been following for years.

 

The PDK metal is really tough stuff. I need to drill some holes for pipework and a hand-held pin vice hardly touches it.

 

Mike's comment about starting with a difficult kit interested me. I'm not sure how genuinely difficult the B16 is. There are a couple of curves to make but otherwise the kit seems to be an issue in routine soldering with well designed slots for the key parts, so any errors are mine rather than any intrinsic difficulty with the kit. And the B16 was a loco I wanted. I'm already looking at the B16/2. Stupid boy (old man).. 

 

However we continue to make progress....just.

 

John

Edited December 28, 2015 by rowanj