Building kits for Tyneside in the BR era. J24 and PDK D49/2

[micklner]

Found this picture of what I presume is the D&S kit of the D.53 in North Eastern Vol 2 (glad I dont model the NER period !!) . It has roof lights , not easy to photograph as the paper is shiny. 

Posted for education purposes only .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2020 by micklner

[jwealleans]

I use the 51L LNWR rooflights, I'm afraid - much easier to fit.

 

Mick that picture is in the BRJ North Eastern special edition, if you have it.   Andrew's is a much better reproduction, though.

[rowanj]

Thanks again. The livery on Mick's photo is fantastic. My brown version, not so much. 

[rowanj]

This is where I am with the D&S Dia 53 ex-NER Brake. The roof still needs fitted and some detail tidied up, and numbers added. I have my doubts about some of the underframe details, but anything I discover later can probably be sorted if the errors are too glaring. Given the recent conversions on another thread, whether this coach is wholly unacceptable/intolerable, just about OK or not too bad/acceptable is in the eye of the beholder. For a first attempt, it hasn't come out too badly in my view, but I'm prejudiced.

The leading coach is a Kirk kit built longer ago than I care to remember, and has lain unloved in a box with 2 others for years. Flushed with "success", I'm going to have a go at renovating them, and have built ABS bogies for another wreck. I'll rebuild the underframe with MJT parts and see what happens.

There are often comments elsewhere about renumbering RTR locos, and I do this regularly. 42085 looks odd on this train, but it was on Tyneside in the 1950's, and actually worked Manors- Newbiggin trains, and I have a photo to prove it. Some of the 49ft coaches, of which the Brake 3rd is one, finished their lives on these trains, and so any renumbering of the loco, in this case, would be pointless. 

When I got the coach kits they came as a pair, i.e 2 Brakes and 2 Composites. I doubt I will build another Brake, so will probably sell the second one on. I'm getting too old to stockpile.

Thanks again to all those who helped on this project.

[micklner]

You need to buy a new camera !!

 

Hard to to tell in the photos! ! , the solebar should be Brown as the body, footboard would still be Black. I presume its Vacumn fitted ? I cannot see anything relating to that underneath the Coach.

 

Kirks are much better with MJT parts including the bogies.

[rowanj]

Hi Mick- I was told the solebar wold be black, post -War? Vacuum tanks still to be fitted, - they didn't come with the kit but are on order from Dart Castings. New camera- not a chance- I leave that to Mrs rowanj.

[Headstock]

15 hours ago, rowanj said:

This is where I am with the D&S Dia 53 ex-NER Brake. The roof still needs fitted and some detail tidied up, and numbers added. I have my doubts about some of the underframe details, but anything I discover later can probably be sorted if the errors are too glaring. Given the recent conversions on another thread, whether this coach is wholly unacceptable/intolerable, just about OK or not too bad/acceptable is in the eye of the beholder. For a first attempt, it hasn't come out too badly in my view, but I'm prejudiced.

The leading coach is a Kirk kit built longer ago than I care to remember, and has lain unloved in a box with 2 others for years. Flushed with "success", I'm going to have a go at renovating them, and have built ABS bogies for another wreck. I'll rebuild the underframe with MJT parts and see what happens.

There are often comments elsewhere about renumbering RTR locos, and I do this regularly. 42085 looks odd on this train, but it was on Tyneside in the 1950's, and actually worked Manors- Newbiggin trains, and I have a photo to prove it. Some of the 49ft coaches, of which the Brake 3rd is one, finished their lives on these trains, and so any renumbering of the loco, in this case, would be pointless. 

When I got the coach kits they came as a pair, i.e 2 Brakes and 2 Composites. I doubt I will build another Brake, so will probably sell the second one on. I'm getting too old to stockpile.

Thanks again to all those who helped on this project.

 

Good gravy, (chicken coloured?)

 

your layout is almost taking on a North Eastern bent. BZ next?

[rowanj]

I was certainly feeling "chicken" when I started to paint it, Andrew. As I said in an earlier post, the colour is very responsive to changes of light. The Composite will be painted using Precision Track Dirt to give a bit of variety.

 

I'll add transfers - I hope they got BR -style numbers late in life - and weathering, then it's good to go. 

 

\what is the recommended kit, if any, for a BZ?

 

John

[jwealleans]

I think the only complete kit available now is Ian MacDonald's (MacGeordie in these parts).   I haven't built mine, but all his other kits I have built have been excellent.

 

That's for the Thompson BZ - if Andrew's referring to older vehicles then you're probably combing Ebay for D & S kits or awaiting Dan's next list like the rest of us.

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, rowanj said:

I was certainly feeling "chicken" when I started to paint it, Andrew. As I said in an earlier post, the colour is very responsive to changes of light. The Composite will be painted using Precision Track Dirt to give a bit of variety.

 

I'll add transfers - I hope they got BR -style numbers late in life - and weathering, then it's good to go. 

 

\what is the recommended kit, if any, for a BZ?

 

John

 

Good morning John,

 

I think it looks very good, I like my gravy dark which wouldn't be appropriate for carriages, mostly. You have a marvellous collection of locomotives, it is nice to see you spread that authentic North Eastern feel across your stock for a nice balance. There is something about the combination of brown and crimson carriages that sets a time and place, it gives your layout much added interest.

 

One technique you may wish to try, before glazing, is a dark wash over the paint work. Big brush, lots of white spirit, matt black with a little orange mix. It will pick out the panelling quite nicely and give a more consistent colour in different lighting. Remember to keep it subtle. When it dries you can always add more if you wish.

 

With regard to the BZ, ex NER, not those Thompson things, though a Thompson thing would be fun. Think of it as a more authentic version of those horrible BY's that proliferate in a most undignified manner. Keep an eye on Jonathan's, 'LNER modellers heads up', on the Small suppliers forum, if you can get items directly from Dan (D&S), the costs will be much more to your liking.

[rowanj]

I suppose these photos shows what I am trying to replicate with my kit building efforts as I try to re-create the location where I 'spotted from age 11 to about 15. It also shows the difficulty I have with the timeline, as my DJH D20, modified by extending the smokebox to represent it in its' last years, has a late crest, yet tows a coach which was gone by the early '50;s. Yet there is more satisfaction than with the re-numbered Tweedmouth B1 on a Berwick-Newcastle stopper on its' rake of (excellent) Hornby RTR's. Hopefully, over time, I can mix up the rake to add interest.

The real D20 is heading North , but the setup in the loft means I cannot easily take photos without the contortions which will defeat a 70 y.o from this western viewpoint . Perhaps a selfie stick?

John

[manna]

G'day Folks

 

You could always do different eras.............!

 

manna

[mikemeg]

John,

 

Perhaps your ex NER coach was found in the same place - languishing at the back of a long closed and forgotten loco and carriage shed - as my ex NER Tennant 2-4-0, the ex LNER B15 4-6-0 and the ex-LNER Q5/2; all still extant in June 1950, the timescale of my layout!

 

Early railway preservationists (is there such a word) eagerly leapt at the opportunity to rescue, restore and preserve these hitherto undiscovered vehicles, long before the preservation movement achieved its present level of membership, ambition and achievements.

 

With such a rationale, then the result really does look appropriate. Anyway, it's your railway and no-one should criticise!

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by mikemeg

[John Tomlinson]

11 hours ago, manna said:

G'day Folks

 

You could always do different eras.............!

 

manna

Exactly. Purely a matter of personal choice, but I for one have stopped beating myself up about things not being entirely consistent.

 

If someone really does want to stick to what ran at a particular location on 12th June 1952 say, then they should do, and something scrapped on 11th June is off limits. But that is their choice.

 

We are in this hobby by personal choice, and we are free to set whatever parameters we wish. However perhaps as it is a hobby we should think twice about being too hard on ourselves?

 

John.

[Headstock]

16 hours ago, rowanj said:

I suppose these photos shows what I am trying to replicate with my kit building efforts as I try to re-create the location where I 'spotted from age 11 to about 15. It also shows the difficulty I have with the timeline, as my DJH D20, modified by extending the smokebox to represent it in its' last years, has a late crest, yet tows a coach which was gone by the early '50;s. Yet there is more satisfaction than with the re-numbered Tweedmouth B1 on a Berwick-Newcastle stopper on its' rake of (excellent) Hornby RTR's. Hopefully, over time, I can mix up the rake to add interest.

The real D20 is heading North , but the setup in the loft means I cannot easily take photos without the contortions which will defeat a 70 y.o from this western viewpoint . Perhaps a selfie stick?

John

 

Afternoon John,

 

I think that there is great merit that you think about such things, a sign of a good modeller, one who cares about what he is doing. Nowadays so much is handed to hobbyists on a plate that they have become lazy, your thoughtful approach has much to recommend it. Of course, you have done it now, you are going to have to build a new locomotive to suit your new carriage! Alternatively, you could change the crest on the present one.

[rowanj]

I am gratified by the last few posts, ..grateful that folks have taken the time to put a comment on the thread.

What seems to have happened is that, with more kitbuilding, the timescale of the layout has gradually slipped back from my original concept of the years when I actually was at that location  watching trains. I'm not perhaps the purist that my post have have given the impression. More and more, loco building has seen me running classes of locos which were gone by 1958, and even then, were hardly ever seen North of Newcastle.  B16/2/3, and A5 and A8 are cases in point. The D20 was deliberately chosen as an example of one of the last in class, late crest at al, and which actually ran through Little Benton.

The coach has pushed the boundaries back even furher, and I doubt it got past 1951 in reality. If I could have instead got a model of an ex NER coach which lasted longer, I would have done so. The problem is, though I won't be entering it in a " coach build of the year" competition, I loved building it in a period when bad health made things tricky at home, and, to be honest, I'm chuffed to bits with how it's turned out. Having got this far back, what price a J24?

[MarkC]

Last J24s in BR service were withdrawn in 1951, John, although one ran on the route of the Marsden Rattler until 1956...

 

Mark

[rowanj]

Hi Mark.

That's the reason I haven't ordered a J24..they went from BR a bit too early for, what was then, my comfort.

It's funny the ridiculous prejudices one can have for not having a particular loco. North Yorkshire seems to to be a bridge too far to justify seeing one of their small  goods or shunting locos on Tyneside, so I always renumber a York, Selby or Hull engine (sorry, Mike). For some reason, I won't build a J26 from Teesside, though happily run the occasional A5... Such is the weird mindset of the railway modeller.

Edited March 13, 2020 by rowanj

[MarkC]

3 hours ago, rowanj said:

Hi Mark.

That's the reason I haven't ordered a J24..they went from BR a bit too early for, what was then, my comfort.

It's funny the ridiculous prejudices one can have for not having a particular loco. North Yorkshire seems to to be a bridge too far to justify seeing one of their small  goods or shunting locos on Tyneside, so I always renumber a York, Selby or Hull engine (sorry, Mike). For some reason, I won't build a J26 from Teesside, though happily run the occasional A5... Such is the weird mindset of the railway modeller.

Hi John

 

Shame, as they're pretty engines.

 

I've got a problem in the other direction, if you'll pardon the expression 

 

I've always been a fan of the original Trans Pennine DMUs - childhood memories... - but was able to resist the Silver Fox conversion kits because I knew they didn't run in my area of interest; the Scarborough & Whitby Railway. Last month, what turns up? A photo of a set climbing up to Ravenscar on a scenic excursion...

 

So, another pile of parts, plus donor vehicles, in the roundtuit pile

 

Mind you, I'm looking forward to the day when I have the layout at a show, and on running this set, Mr <knowledge> rocks up, telling all and sundry that such things were never seen there...

...at which point, out comes the photo 

 

Mark

[rowanj]

As we begin entering "lockdown", I have started the D&S ex-NER Dia 63 Composite. These were downgraded to all-3rd;s by the end, and this is how I'll replicate mine. I have a pair of the kits, so I'll build 1 as gas-lit, just for variety, and may fit the lower footboards. I doubt this would be prototypical for how they finished up in service, but as I'm stretching credibility to run them anyway, what the heck...

 

The basic body carcase, underframe and bogies have been soldered up, and the photo shows the first running test, coupled to the brake 3rd and also a Kirk Gresley LNER which I'm in the process of renovating, using MJT parts,,

 

 

[rowanj]

Test running the Kirk 3rd on its MJT underframe attachments. The first coach is a standard Hornby, and the loco is an early version of a Dave Alexander J21. I have a few more Kirk "C. ups" to play with but not enough replacement bogie parts, unless they turn up in some box in the loft. 

[rowanj]

 Here is where I am up to with a D&S ex-NER Composite. It has all the basic components in place, but everything  is just perched for the sake of the photo. It will be gas-lit with steam brakes, just for variety, 

Incidentally, I contacted Worsley Works yesterday to try to get their parts for an ex-NER all 3rd Clerestory. This wasn't in stock, though I did get a Brake 3rd. I mention this because Allen at Worsley  said that his etchers were closing down and any kits not in stock would be subject to an indefinite delay during the current crisis. So even mail order for parts is likely to be a problem,

Finally, does anyone know of a source for ex-NER coach bogies to go under the Worsley coach?

All the best to everyone during all this,,,

[MarkC]

9 minutes ago, rowanj said:

 Here is where I am up to with a D&S ex-NER Composite. It has all the basic components in place, but everything  is just perched for the sake of the photo. It will be gas-lit with steam brakes, just for variety, 

Incidentally, I contacted Worsley Works yesterday to try to get their parts for an ex-NER all 3rd Clerestory. This wasn't in stock, though I did get a Brake 3rd. I mention this because Allen at Worsley  said that his etchers were closing down and any kits not in stock would be subject to an indefinite delay during the current crisis. So even mail order for parts is likely to be a problem,

Finally, does anyone know of a source for ex-NER coach bogies to go under the Worsley coach?

All the best to everyone during all this,,,

Hi John

 

That's coming along nicely

 

I've just bought some Fox bogies from Andy at Isinglass models. Obviously I haven't seen them yet, as they were sent home, and I'm still on my ship, but I'm sure that they will be nicely done.

 

Mark

[rowanj]

Thanks for the pointer to using Isinglass bogies. Funnily enough, I've just bought a pair of Gresley  ones from him, via Ebay, to go under another bashed up Kirk. The casting is very good, so I'll certainly give them a go.

John

[rowanj]

Folks might be interested to see the etched parts you get for the Worsley Works Ex-NER Clerestory Dia 46 4 compt Brake 3rd. These kits are described as "scratch aids" but , body wise, are mainly missing vents and gas lamps as far as I can tell The parts cover roof, floor, sides and ends. The brass is a bit thicker than on the D&S kits - more akin to PDK.

The service even in these trying times was excellent. micklner was seeking some clerestory roof parts, and I don't know if Worsley will supply the roof etch as a spare, or if it will meet what was needed, but the photos may give a clue.